I've played the game indepth, and I think it's really fun, actually. I can't say that I've ever gotten to the last level (or PD's for that matter), but from what I've played it certainly is an excellent game that I'd rate somewhere around a 9.0. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark just are more my type of FPS, that's all.

No, I don't own an X-box. But I don't think that means I can't say that I am less excited about getting one now that I hear the multiplayer options are "lacking" in it's flagship title.

I have to own a game to have an opinion on it? Since when? The lack of bots is, to me, a serious reason to not get the game. Once the single player is beaten, even on Legendary, is there anything else to offer for the single player?

All I said was that I preferred my multiplayer full-screen, and the lack of a broadband connection where I live means that no bots means no full-screen multiplayer. That's disappointing to me. I have to own the game to have that opinion?

1. Yes, you have to own a game to have an opinion on it. That's if you want people to take you seriously.

2. If you did own Halo, you would know beating Legendary is the reason bots aren't needed. It took me 36 hours to beat Halo on Heroic. Since the AI is much more advanced in Legendary, I'm guessing it will take at least double the time it took me on Heroic.
And it's just as fun playing it the second time through due to increased and random enemy placement.

So for me, I'm looking at a kickass 108 hours of total playtime with even touching multiplayer. At least that's the opinion I have formed after actually playing the game.

I KNOW for a fact that people don't own every single system and every single game, yet still offer their opinions on said games.

Flay, I KNOW you've offered opinions on Gamecube games that you don't own.

Did I say anything about the single-player experience being bad? I don't think I did...let's check...nope, I didn't.

Does the game lack bots in multiplayer? Yup. Do I think that bots add a lot of replay value to a game? Yup. Do I like buying games that offer a great single player experience? Nope, not really. I would rather rent a game like that.

and lastly, this:


That's great. That really is. I'm glad the game offers that much time. 95% of games nowadays offer only 10 to 20 hours of gameplay. Halo deserves all the accollades it's gotten for an engrossing single player experience. I would never argue with that.

But you know what? I don't usually buy games like that. Most of the games I've purchased in my life offer something beyond single player. I probably spent HUNDREDS of hours playing Mortal Kombat 2 for SNES with my roommate in college. I've spent at least 108 hours playing Unreal Tournament, agains bots, and I don't think I'll ever stop playing it.

So, I guess that I have to buy a game and system to be able to say that the lack of bots is a detriment to an otherwise spectacular game? I can't be familiar enough with my tastes to know that I will be disappointed with the lack of computer-controlled opponents to deathmatch with? Whatever...

I find some serious flaw in the logic here. Serious. You can't have an opinion on something you've never experienced, but I don't see why one can't have an opinion on a game that you've played at a friend's house or even rented. I respect draven's opinion on this game and agree that the lack of bots in the arenas seriously hurt the 1-player replay value on this game. I haven't played Halo for weeks since I beat it on Legendary.

I beat Legendary in about 20 hours after beating normal in about 16 and at this point I really wished there were bots to keep me interested in this game and since I don't have broadband there really isn't much more to do with it in terms of playing solo.

Actually I don't offer an opinon unless I actually play the game. For instance, I didn't judge LM, ST:RL, or WaveRace until I actually played them in a kiosk. Look at my post history if you don't believe me. Have you ever played Halo at all?

I didn't say you badmouthed the single player experience. But you assume that replay value is depleted due to lack of bots. I'm telling you that Legendary makes up for the lost replay value.

Fine. Whatever. I will play Advanced AI in Halo. You can play with bots. No difference to me. Huge difference to you. To each his own.

You had me up to this point. You are completely full of sh*t.

It took Chris Butcher, the programmer of the AI at Bungie, 60 hours to complete the game on Legendary. His name is in the credits in Halo. Just play your imaginary copy.

Here is the proof:

http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive3.pl?read=75848

If I judged games from playing them at a kiosk, then my views would be all messed up. PLaying at a kiosk does not give a great representation of the game. Going by this standard, I would say that Fusion Frenzy is a worthless waste of money, even with 4 players, and Halo is a Quake ripoff with lip-syncing(I started at the beginning) and poor controls, Luigi's Mansion is a Ghostbusters clone(which it is) with poor controls, and Rogue Leader is like Star Fox ...

By actually playing the games for a while, meaning not standing at a store, does one get a true feel for the game.

I too have played Halo at a kiosk. I didn't mention it because I was sure it would be ripped apart because I didn't get "the full experience" or something.

I guess we agree to disagree. I think that once the single player is beaten, no matter how long it takes, then the game is more or less over if you don't have friends who can regularly come over to play or a fast internet connection. That's it, that's all I was trying to say.

So in other words, my opinion (hang on, let me quote myself from an old thread):

"SWRL gets a well deserved 10 out of 10. The game is just that much fun!"

is worthless because I only played the kiosk demo?

My honest opinion? yup, worthless.

-sigh-

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...lo#post1724453

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...lo#post1788952

In the second thread, go about 5 posts down and read my spoiler. The open snow levels provide for some great shortcuts since you can get a banshee as well.

Good for Chris Butcher for sucking at his own game. Maybe 20 hours may seem short to you, but I beat Legendary in 6 days at no more than 3-5 hours a day. So 30 hours, tops? Sorry I didn't have a stopwatch to time myself.

Edited to add: I played legendary for the sole purpose of beating the game to see the ending. Since I had already beaten the game on Normal, I didn't explore every crevice of every level. It's possible to blast through many parts of the game and not have to absolutely clear every part. The Library is a great example of this. Because of the slow nature of the Flood, you can sprint from one checkpoint to another if you're properly armed.

I agree. I think I misrepresented myself a bit up there. I agree you should have played a game, for a little while at least, on a standard TV in your home or at a friend's, before stating your opinion on that game.

All I meant was that I know Halo is single-player intensive, I know I don't have broadband so I can't play it online, and I know that it has no bots to play against. That is a problem FOR ME. That's all I was trying to say.

So yes, your opinion about SWRL, while positive, is worthless. By your own criteria too.

Still Very Doubtful. I hope for your sake there is some sort of Halo tournament for cash if you can beat the fellow that programmed the AI.

Give me a break. What do you get from beating legendary that you don't get from beating it on a lower difficulty level? In Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, the higher difficulty levels held more objectives and opened special levels and multiplayer options. In games where there are just more enemies, and they do more damage, I never see much reason to play back through on the hardest levels. The games are usually balanced at the middle level, and too easy on the easy level, and annoyingly hard on the hard level.

It probably took you 36 hours to beat the game on Legendary because you kept getting killed, and having to do the same thing over and over and over. That's not the kind of gameplay I want. On the PC, I usually finish the single player on the default difficulty, and then go straight to the internet. On the console, if the game doesn't have a decent multiplayer, or some other way to make it replayable, I usually trade it in.

Halo is a very good game, but your logic in claiming it as a 100 hour game is pretty silly. It's a 15-20 hour FPS, with a multiplayer mode which has questionable longevity.

Since when are the programmers automatically great at their games?

Whoa, I was going to make a retort on how programmers don't necessarily make them great gamers, but since the poster I was going to respond to is now [banned] for whatever reason, I guess it's moot...

A more intense experience. Stronger AI. A true test of your skills.


Actually he said "Heroic" in 36 hours. And it took me about that long too. It was one of the most fulfulling gaming experiences I've ever had. Once I screwed up and had to go back and replay a few hours again, once I got back into it, I had a lot of fun.

20 hours huh? Baloney. In normal mode yes, Otherwise, hell no.

How fun is it playing against "bots" anyway? That's what the main game is for.

No offense, but I don't buy your legendary time either. You'd have to cheat a lot more than what you did. But let's not rehash that argument. Are you sure you didn't just beat the last level on Legendary?

I think the guy Flay mentioned above is awesome for even getting through this game in Legendary. In 60 hours would be very good.

Scandal, what's your experience with this game that you can judge it so well?

After you beat the game on every difficulty what will you do then?

Bots make it so you by yourself can have a new game experience that is always random, where as the game is never random, it's programed, everything is always going to be in the same place and will always have a programed AI for that instance where in as in a multi player game with bots, they will have a broader AI and be a lot harder than even the enemies on legendary mode if that is what you want to set there diffeculty at.

Another option with bots in PD that Halo is lacking BOTs being number 1, is that you could play a co-op multi with your buddy vs. the bots.

Bots just bring much more to a game, and single player will never make up for them not being included. There is nothing anyone can say that makes up for it.

They should have been in the game period.


ON a side note ... Galent Pig why are you defending Halo so much? Are you saying you would not enjoy bots as they where in PD?

I never played PD. PD didn't invent bots. My first exposure to bots was on QuakeIII. They bored me to death, since I already had a lot of experience playing Quake II Online. I guess that's why I could care less about bots.

I'm defending Halo so much because it's being criticized and attacked by people who don't own it and only played it at Target or whereever. Basically people who don't own the XBox are piling on it here trying to make it look worse than it actually is. Funny nobody does that with games for other systems. Nismo, have you started playing again? Try it on Heroic and see what you think.

But, you see, I haven't dogged the single player. I have dogged the lack of options ingame and in multi. So I don't know why the conversation is continuing.

The single player is top notch, however i feel that, without more options in game and in multi the game dose not feel complete, it almost feels like the multi is still in beta.(options wise)

There's like only 8 weapons. And the vehicles to me are just silly. if I was playing multi and I know I'm good at shooting you on foot and then you run me over with a warthog? Where is the skill in that?

There's like only 8 weapons. And the vehicles to me are just silly. if I was playing multi and I know I'm good at shooting you on foot and then you run me over with a warthog? Where is the skill in that?


----

Right, but now imagine you have a rocket launcher :D Or are in a tank. Or you have a sniper rifle and get some space between you and the warthog. It can be pretty fun.

If you notice this thread, I agreed right with joshhinkle that the multiplayer isn't the be all and all of gaming experiences, but it was pretty good. Not great. The game shines in first player mode. I don't disagree with that at all. I do disagree with ScandalUMN or Daven-X (neither who own an X-Box) who comes in here and blasts the game as a mere 20 hour firstplayer experience. It's so much more than that. I guess Geoff or somebody should close it since everything has been said.

I never said the game wasn't a great single player experience. Quite the opposite. The only thing I have said over and over is that as a consumer, as a player of video games, I feel the lack of good multiplayer for those without internet access and friends who have the time to come over seems to be lacking because there is no option to "play against the computer."

I know you play the computer in the single player mode, but I enjoy playing against bots, I enjoy the "randomness" of deathmatches and "capture the flag" games. I throw Unreal Tournament in my PC and play "Overlord" all the time. I like playing against bots. That's all I was trying to say.

Wow. Everybody needs to breathe deeply in this thread and chill out...

Well color me shocked! :eek:









-rolleyes- ;)

I didn't judge the game. I merely judged the assertion that playing the game on a harder difficulty level adds to the value.

I don't know what the difficulty levels are in Halo. If "Normal" is the game's easiest difficulty level, I agree that people shouldn't play it.

I play games at whatever the default difficulty level is. Usually that's where the learning curve is set. A good game shows you the ropes at the beginning, and gives you a good challenge towards the end. Usually, games are balanced this way at the default difficulty level.

I don't think a difficulty toggle adds worthwhile play value to a video game.

Its not. Theres an Easy setting as well. Normal is the default setting.

Actually, the AI in Halo is such that the aliens will react differently every time around. They won't always act the way you expect them to. Smart aliens -- even the little buggers.

Tuan Jim

also the aliens are in different places when you try at different times.

Good to see Flay go from banned to suspended. I can feel his pain as a strongly opinionated person myself, and I don't think he should have been banned for expressing his strong beliefs (if this discussion was indeed part of the reason that he was banned)... Perhaps Frank Black and THX 1138 retrials?

I originally decided not to post in this thread a few days ago, but now that it's gotten way out of hand I want to add a little something.
Many of you take feedback from others to heart. That's great. That's what these forums are for. You read the opinions of others and provide your own. That's all they are -- OPINIONS. Because of that, these topics end up getting nowhere.
I myself am guilty of getting involved in heated debates based purely on personal opinions.

Now, to keep this topic on track:
I too would have liked to see bots available in the Multiplayer aspect of this game and I think it would add to the replay value tremendously. But I can live with the fact that we can't have everything.
If you purchased a game and are unhappy with a certain aspect of it, tough luck. Should've rented first.
If the game has parts you liked and disliked, then try writing to the game programmers/developers because nothing will change by complaining in these forums. But perhaps you'll see changes in future releases. (This is how Neversoft works. They have tailored the Tony Hawk series from feedback and look where it got them).

With a game like Halo, you have to understand that it is a single story mode game first, multiplayer game second. For gamers that enjoy multiplayer, that's why Tribes 2, Unreal Tournament, Quake III, and so forth are programmed. The Xbox will get it's fair share of these type of games. Just hang in there.

All games I have played have an area that can be improved even in the slightest, but I enjoy them nonetheless. Seriously think about this. Have you really EVER played the PERFECT game? Because if you did, that would be the game to play forever. The answer is the perfect game doesn't exist.

The bottomline:

You can't satisfy everyone. Deal with it.

I don't know Centurion, the original Legend of Zelda and LoZ: A Link To the Past, are two perfect games, in my opinion. I've searched long and hard, and can't find a single flaw with them. I will play them forever in a sense, because they are too good to neglect forever. Everything else I agree with...

For those of you who have beaten Halo:

Is it pretty safe to assume we will be seeing a sequel? The ending pretty much left it wide open.

Gosh.. people, calm down.

I agree with Centurion, no game is perfect. But if you're not going to buy Halo just because it doesn't have bots then you're missing out on a great game, even in single player.

I haven't beaten Halo, nor do I own it, but I think it was safe to assume that a sequel is coming when it was the sole reason the X-Box did really big business after launch.

ppl need not forget that HALO was orignally slated for the PC.
it was suppose to pack a million features that got filtered out due to time restraints and overall size

one of the things I remember was in co-op for the pc version players would be able to be the good guys AND the aliens
not to mention a handful of guns that got left out

supposedly this thing is still a go for the pc,if that's true we haven't seen ANYTHING yet
the x-box version may as well be the PC demo made for the console.

if in fact it does still get released for the pc,time will tell

HALO is the best console game I have ever played and THE best console or PC FPS. Its only drawback its the lack of bots in multiplayer mode. Unreal is a toy compared to this game. It totally raises the bar for FPS, this is the one that all others will be compared to. The $300 price tag for the Xbox is worth it just for this game.

IMO of course

If this is true, a <b>"HALO: SPECIAL EDITION "</b> would be cool for the XBOX!