The real console wars
 

ok, I know this has been done before, but now we have more info, that, and I want to know the opinion of people before the big consoles actually hit, and history is made!!

No offence to PS2 owners, but looking at vid clips of x-box and GCN (I know--they're just clips--but they're IN GAME) GCN and X-box seem to blow PS2 away, just like PS2 blew DC away (irony?). Let's take a quick run-down--X-box has some sweet thrid-party titles (personally, I hope x-box dies--then its' games will be ported to other systems:D) and GCN has the big first-party titles. Any thoughts?

Re: The real console wars
 

I am sure The XBox will die out. Microsoft is known for their crappy, quickly forgotten products like Windows. They are known for making terrible business decisions. I mean come on! They are only worth 291,330,000,000 dollars or 291.33 Billion. Any company that is worth that amount of money must be making poor business decisions.

Be Happy that Microsoft and the XBox will never make it.

PS2 looking vastly superior to Dreamcast? Have you ever played a videogame?

Re: Re: The real console wars
 

rotfl

Don't care. I will buy the one with games I want to play. It may end up being all of the above.

Have a DC and Im getting a Cube and a Box. Passing on the PS2, FWIW.

I thinks its gonna be the other way around, the popular/good PS2 games will probally get a facelift and ported to the XBox. Nintendo has strong first party software, Microsoft and Sony are gonna have to fight for the third parties. One will probally end up squeezing the other out. Im betting MS is the one standing after its all said and done due to the fact that Halo looks as good if not better than anything on the PS2 and its only a launch title. Of course if it looks like Im wrong Im gonna end up buying a PS2 as well, Im going where the games are. Period.

I think they will all succeed. I hope they all succeed. Why? I figure if all of them do extremely well over the holiday season, the economy goes up, and people are generally happy: playing video games are fun, having stocks actually go up is fun, and everybody's happy and stuff.

Sure, more people will be staying inside playing video games, but still.....

My point exactly....I will own all three without a doubt. :)

Well that's very diplomatic of you. I think, if money were no option, most people would own all three. But I picked PS2, because it's the system that will get more of the games, and will still be supported three years down the line.

Microsoft is big, but that doesn't mean that the X-Box will sell. In fact, Microsoft's size may just mean that they will write the X-Box off if it doesn't perform out of the gate, rather than continuing to support it.

Plenty of big companies have had their losers, from New Coke to Pepsi Clear to Divx to Minidisc (which I love) to Virtual Boy.

The X-Box looks lackluster. It's got a hard drive and an online connector that aren't used in any games, and it's ugly. What's more, the games aren't revolutionary, or even evolutionary. Most of them are just straight ports.

PS2 has the games this holiday season, and its user base is large enough to guarantee a future for the system. Regardless of what system you favor, I think pretty much everyone has to admit that, in a year, or in two, there will be more PS2s than X-Boxes sold.

LOL! You are so misinformed.

As for the Hard drive, you have no idea what you are talking about. This is what the hard drive will be used for in the 1st batch of games.

1. Memory card saves. No more spending 35 bucks for a memory card. Just save it to the HD.

2. Decreasing load times for the games. Quick access is the standard with every XBox game.

3. My Favorite: Ripping your own music to be incorporated into the games. Amped and PGR are just a couple games that support this feature at launch.

It is true you won't be able to go online until Spring/Summer 2002 just like the PS2, but right now the Ethernet card is used for several games at launch. For instance Halo allows for 16 player LAN by hooking 4 Xbox’s together.

As for how the XBox looks, to each his own. Personally I think the XBox will make a great edition to my home theater setup.

As for your comment on the games, that just proves you haven't read up on any of the games. Just don't come crying to me about not having a XBox when Halo receives game of the year awards in many magazines this year.

The XBox has more originals than ports: Halo, DOA3, Project Gotham Racing, Amped, NFL Fever, and Oddworld: Munch's Oddesey to name a few.

The current "ports" we are getting have been improved greatly. For instance Silent Hill 2 will get better looking graphics and 4-6 hours of extra gameplay. Starfighter has gotten a smooth 60-fps framerate, vastly improved graphics, 5 extra levels, 3 extra multiplayer levels, and more unlockable ships.

The "ports" in production will also be improved. GTA3 is getting a widescreen mode for us HDTV lovers, not to mention the same treatment as all the other ports. So they are not really ports are they? They seem to be much better games than their counterparts.

Well, enough ranting from me.

P.S. As for Microsoft supporting the XBox out of the gate, They have a 5-year plan. They don't plan on making money on the XBox until 5 years from the launch. Microsoft is here for the long haul.

There is absolutely no way of telling that yet. Sony has done one console and it was an overwhelming sucess. How they would react to being second or third in the market is pure speculation. They could fold quicker than you can say "saturn" or they could dig in the way Nintendo did with the N64. There is zero history to say which posibility is more realistic. Im of the opinion that the XBox and the PS2 share the same weaknesses, (dependance on third parties), and Nintendo is somewhat insulated from this. I think the Cube is a safe 2nd place at worst, but the battle between MS and Sony will probally be winner takes all. Whichever gets the better third party support will probally kill the other.

Totally agree with you here. I think the HD of both the X-Box and PS2 will help immensely for both systems. This is where GC is weak.

Flay, is there any information on how big saved games will be on some of these games? And this is a serious question, why is MS selling a memory card if you can save it on a hard drive.

You can already go on-line with at least one PS2 game, that being Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3. Yes, you have to buy additional hardware for it if you don't have it, but it is possible to not be in the same room and play on-line over the internet. THPS3 may not be a great party game like Halo probably would be though, but there's a lot of people that love THPS3

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself here. I wouldn't even have the audacity to say that MGS2 will receive many Game of the Year awards this year. It shall be interesting to see though. I'm not saying you're wrong in your assumption...but it's a bit hard to call something Game of the Year when the general populace has yet to play it (this goes for MGS2 as well, even though there is a demo available...that is not the whole game).

GTA3 already has a widescreen mode in the PS2 version, this will not be a new feature on the X-Box version. There are many games with widescreen mode already out for the PS2 and many more are coming. GTA3 is not a port I would be hailing too much, the graphics are the weakest part of the game...but the gameplay rocks.

I don't know who will be third and I will probably eventually own all 3 systems.

I also voted for don't care...whoever has the good games is the system(s) I'll be staying with.

gamecube!

As far as I now, the size is pretty small when saving games. They have to make it small enough to fit on the memory card too. Speaking of the memory card, Microsoft is pushing it as a tool to transfer game saves to your friend's XBox. That would be the only reason you need the card. Otherwise just save to the HD.

Unfortunately, some consumers will probably buy one after being so trained to get one wih every system. But I am sure they can return it after they find out they don't need it.

That is true, but the main online rollout wont happen until Spring for each system. I am also interested to see if the XBox will have anything extra in THPS3 since it is coming out later.

Well, I see where you are coming from. I am only basing my opinon on what others have said after they played the game. Halo will certainly give MGS2 a run for its money, which is great for the XBox. A 1st gen game is challenging a (2nd or 3rd?) gen game for GOTY. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

My bad about the widescreen mode. I thought progessive scan for the HDTV was going to be an exclusive XBox feature.

Anyway, Rockstar will probably follow the lead of other developers and improve on GTA 3 graphically when it comes to the XBox. I suppose a good test will be to see if there are any differences in Max Payne for the PS2 and for the XBox. We shall see anyway.

Now to me this is a huge deal and it looks like a big plus for the Box. However...

I have heard that the dev kits for the XBox are unbelieveably programmer friendy and the usual leap in software quality will not be as substantial as we are all used to. In short the rumor is that the 1st gen titles are damn near using all of the XBox's bells and whistles. Whereas the PS2 titles are just now starting to utilize the power of the hardware. Im somewhat predisposed to dismiss this as Sony Fanboy ranting because all systems can be tweaked and there is always a more efficient way to get to an objective... but a software company like MS may very well be providing a better programming environment for developers so its not that far fetched.

Place your bets guys. :D

I am at the point where I really don't care about the graphical differences between the systems. The PS2 still looks damn good to me, and I'm getting a cube because of its 1st & 2nd party titles.

I wouldn't shed a tear if the xbox failed. Besides my lack of respect for MS, I'm self-centered, and don't want to have to buy a 3rd system, which I will be forced to if enough great exclusive games come out for it.

As for "more systems -> more competition -> better games", this is certainly true to a point, but if you look at the SNES / Genesis days, there were only two systems and there were tons of phenomenal games for both. I don't think adding a third major player is going to affect the quality of games all that much, especially with the recent proliferation of multi-platform games.

I think, and hope, that all three are successful and a three system console war will mean tons of great games for us.

Personally I don't have the time or money to invest in multiple consoles, so I'm only planning on getting a Gamecube. It's the only one of the three that has a lot of exclusives that I care about. X-box is yet to get any exclusives that interest me, and the only thing PS2 has so far that I'd really call a must have is GT3. Most of the big third party games are going to be on all three systems, so I made my decision based on First and Second Party games. IMO Nintendo is the best in this area. Nothing touches their first party games, or Rare games, IMO. Plus they have Resident Evil as an exclusive. I think all the systems will be worth a purchase, it's just that I only have the time and money for one and the Gamecube has the most games, and the type of games, that I love to play.

Instead I have to pay that extra money if I want to use the DVD playback capability, plus, I have to buy a memory card if I want to use my settings on someone else's machine.


A tonic for the impatient! Are load times really that big of a problem?

Hey. Here's something that will forever change the way I play video games...

But you won't be able to play online, and that was a big draw for this game, for me at least. I'd also rather play it with a mouse and keyboard than with the X-Box gamepad, but I digress. There are plenty of other games to play.


Halo looks great. But it had the advantage of several years in development, and Microsoft bought out Bungie specifically to make Halo an X-Box exclusive. None of the other -Box games have the advantage of that level of time commitment. Halo looks great, but it has the trappings of a high-water mark, rather than a sign of things to come.

Also, I'd bet on Metal Gear for the game of the year awards. I know it got all kinds of "game of show" awards at the game shows.

That's naming pretty much all of them. The rest are recycled PS2 games. Incidentally, the PS2 has GT3, GTA3, Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry, Twisted Metal: Black, and Jak and Daxter, which really is just naming a few. Also, Tony Hawk 3 won't be out on the X-Box for months. It comes out Friday for PS2.

The way I see it, the PS2 gets the games first, and the X-Box gets them when they're old news. Starfighter is six months old. The Silent Hill graphics don't really look much better, and the extra game mode is nice, but by the time X-Box gets Silent Hill, PS2 gamers will already have Metal Gear Solid. GTA 3 isn't coming out for X-Box until May!

Regardless of spruced up textures, faster load times, you have to call these games what they are; hand-me-downs.

Well, in 99 and 2000, I was die hard dreamcast. Thought it was the best system, still do actually. When it died, I thought the xbox would be the next big thing. I despised the ps2 because well it killed the dreamcast and it didn't even had any good games (really). Well, now the games certainly are coming out big time for ps2. Nba street, then gt3,silent hilll, then ico,devil may cry,gta3, thps3, and mgs2. And those are just the blockbusters. I'm not counting the good but not outstanding games like Okage, Spy Hunter, Jak and Daxter, etc. Xbox is gonna be good, but it needs to be given time. It will eventually catch up to ps2, but by then, something superior to xbox will be in the works.

You are grasping at straws now. I could just as easily say you will have to buy a multitap, HD, and ethernet card add-ons to even attempt to come close to the XBox.

Yes they are. But hey, if you like load times, I am sure the PS2 will accomodate you until their HD comes out.

What's the matter? No concrete comeback? Oh well I was hoping for more. I guarantee you if the Ps2 HD supports this feature you will be jumping for joy.

Bungie has already promised the possibility of an online update for an online play add on for Halo. Yet another use of the Hard Drive. 4. Online updates for the games.

I have already seen the things to come and it looks better than Halo. It's called Brute Force.

And again, I am only saying what other reviewers such as Apache at VoodooExtreme have said about Halo. It will be a GOTY candidate. Funny how a XBox Launch title will be competing with a game that is coming more than a year after the PS2 launch.

Again you are wrong. Let me name a few more: WWF Raw is War, UFC Tapout, Blood Wake, Morrowind, Project Ego, Dark Summit, Shrek, Mad Dash Racing, Airforce Delta Storm, Nightcaster, the 3 Transworld games Surfing, Skating, and Snowboarding.

I suppose I could go into next year with Jet Grind Radio Future, Shenmue II, Hunter The Reckoning, The Unseen, Circus Maximus, New Legends, Buffy the Vampie Slayer, etc......

As for the PS2 games, they are just an extra plus. Heck, XBox fans won't have much time to play PS2 games with the orignal line up we have got. You cannot really call Tony Hawk 3 a port because 3 seperate versions were built from the ground up. If you want to call the other games hand me downs, that's fine with me.

But I will be too busy playing everything else to notice how new or old the PS2 games are.

That's kind of weak retort. I could care less about burning my own soundtracks. It just wouldn't be worth the time IMO. Besides, the only game I could even think of wanting to do it with would be something like Tony Hawk that already has normal music for the sound track. Most of the time I play platformers, sports games and adventure/rpg games and I wouldn't want to make my own soundtrack for them. And then if I don't want to listen to the in-game music I simply hit the cd button on my receiver, and leave the video 2 on as well and can play whatever I want, though I do lose the games sound effects. At any rate, don't say people "would be jumping for joy" if there system has X feature. Not everyone is going to care about the same features as you.

Well Josh, maybe my words were too strong. I was just trying to make the point that some PS2 fans seem to be putting down a feature that they may be getting with their PS2 HD only because the XBox will have it first. For instance, you don't see me saying GTA3 is a crappy game because the PS2 has it before the XBox.

For me, I cannot think of anything better than loading up my favorite tunes to listen to while racing down the street in PGR or flying high on the half pipe in Amped. Now I may like some of the 150 songs that come preloaded with Amped, but I also like having the option of using my own music.

Understood. I just wanted to get the point across that not everyone is going to like every feature. I realize some people just bash stuff on one system just because there system doesn't have it. What can I say, some people are stupid. :D However, the other guy didn't say anything to really indicate that he felt that way, so I just thought you were jumping the gun a little bit. I just wish everyone would quit all this bitching about systems. There's no reason to put down the other systems. It's fine to say why you want one system, and why you don't want the other (as I've been doing with the GC and you with the X-box), unfortunately many people just don't seem to be able to do this and have to start stupid system bashing flame wars. Anyway that's an unrelated topic and I'll end my off-topic rant now. :D

I'll get into this a bit. :)
 

I think we all realize the Xbox is probably the console facing the biggest challenge in the console wars. It won't be a Saturn vs PSX situation again because the PS2 is in too strong of a position. What this upcoming battle reminds me of is Genesis vs SNES. The Genny had a big lead on the SNES and even though the SNES came on strong it was pretty much an even battle up until the end. There really was no loser in that war. The superior power of the SNES really made little difference and I see the same thing with the PS2 and Xbox.

The wildcard here is the Gamecube. Nintendo is pretty unshakable in their niche of the market and they may hurt the growth of the Xbox. However, Nintendo may be so much on an island that they don't effect Sony or Microsoft.

I personally think its way to early to tell. The Xbox needs better exclusives, but I'm sure it will get them next year. I honestly think this could be a three year battle between Sony and Microsoft that ends up with no clear winner.

However, I do have to say that I seriously doubt Sony will be beaten this round. I think the best Microsoft could do is build up a loyal following by releasing quality games and slowly steal some of Sony's strong third party support. Then they might be in a position to win with their next console.

One thing to remember is the launch will tell us nothing. Both the Xbox and Gamecube will sell well through Christmas. I think a year from now we can start this discussion again and have a real idea of who will end up on top.

The one thing that favors Sony is exclusives. DOA3 and Halo will not even come close to selling the way GT3 did, not to mention what FFX and Metal Gear Solid 2 are going to do for PS2 sales. I know Xbox will get Metal Gear at some point, but by then the bulk of its sales will have gone in favor of the PS2. If Microsoft and its third parties can come up with some big time exclusives next year then the Xbox will be right in the fight. If not then I really do worry about the future of the Xbox. You guys can argue speed, graphics, harddrives, and ripping songs all you want, but it's games that sell systems. Right now Sony has the advantage.

Personally I have no favorite. The PS2 has the most games I want right now and the Gamecube will be second by December. The Xbox currently doesn't have anything I want, but I know that will change in 2002. I really hope I can budget in all three, but with games now going for $50 it may not happen. I just love the competition and the best case for me would be for all three to survive.

I'm going to sit back and let the smoke clear this Holiday season. I'm getting the Arc the Lad Collection and Dragon Warrior VII in November and I just picked up the new Dreamcast sports titles. My DC and PSone will tide me over just fine. I'm hoping by next year I will know for sure the new consoles I want to buy.

Personally I think I am going to have to go for an Xbox. Being out of the console game for so long (I am more into computer games than anything) the Xbox I feel will give me graphics that are closer to a computer game and therefore better than the PS2, although it'll be a lot like the good graphics that will come on the Gamecube.

DVD playback, not a feature I even care about since I already have a Home Theatre setup with a standalone DVD player.

As far as games are concerned, I have been looking forward to playing Halo for a long time now. I know it is still supposed to be coming out on the PC, which I will probably pick up also, but to be able to sit next to somebody and work through the SP game, that will just be pretty swift if you ask me. Next game I'm looking forward to is Star Wars: Obi-Wan. My favorite character in the SW series, I am very excited about this game. I just can't get over running around with a lightsabre...hehe.

Lastly, Grand Theft Auto 3 is going to be released on the Xbox also, so I won't miss out there. I will probably still stick to computer games, but the Xbox is probably going to pull me back into the console mix for a bit.