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Writers Strike 2023

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Writers Strike 2023

Old 07-24-23, 10:49 AM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

I think one of the complaints was that with tiny writers rooms, young talent were being pushed out/discouraged and that was causing a pipeline effect with producers, etc.
Old 07-24-23, 11:12 AM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
About the only programs anymore with a real creative vision are headed by at most 2-4 writers/producers handling everything. Serialized content works better with fewer writers in the mix. It may help procedural and formulaic shows, but those are more about commerce than art anyway.
This seems like a standard view, but I'm not convinced. The important bit is that everyone in the writers' room is on the same page, but then they can all bring distinct views to it.

Take the HBO show Barry, for example. If something screams "real creative vision," that show is one of them. But in this clip, at the 4:20 mark, Bill Hader talks about a story beat that he and Alex Berg thought was a "nice" thing for their character to do that all the female writers in the room identified as "creepy."

I also wonder if a show like X-Files had been smaller and more serialized and focused on Chris Carter's vision, would we ever have seen a take on the show as unique as Darrin Morgan's, which introduced humor into the show in a strong way, which then lead to Vince Gilligan's humorous episodes, which then led to Vince Gilligan creating Breaking Bad.... etc.
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Old 07-24-23, 12:18 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Draven
Considering that not making a counter-offer means you don't get to sell anything at all, that seems like a weird way to run a business.
There is always someone else to come along to buy said item vs writers who can be replaced with AI and reduce their output significantly

but hey, their union wants them to strike so let them strike!
Old 07-24-23, 12:24 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Gizmo
There is always someone else to come along to buy said item vs writers who can be replaced with AI and reduce their output significantly
If you think writers can be replaced with AI right now, I have a bridge to sell you.

Hell, if that was actually viable, studios would be starting up new productions with AI scripts right now.

The immediate threat was that studios would use AI to create a crappy first draft, then hire writers to "edit" the script, which is lower pay and less credit, even if they have to totally rework it to the point the original AI contribution is basically zero.

But maybe a ChatGPT prompt could replace your contributions to this thread, something like "post as someone with an irrational hatred for creatives trying to make a better life for themselves and others."
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Old 07-24-23, 12:28 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
If you think writers can be replaced with AI right now, I have a bridge to sell you.

Hell, if that was actually viable, studios would be starting up new productions with AI scripts right now.

The immediate threat was that studios would use AI to create a crappy first draft, then hire writers to "edit" the script, which is lower pay and less credit, even if they have to totally rework it to the point the original AI contribution is basically zero.

But maybe a ChatGPT prompt could replace your contributions to this thread, something like "post as someone with an irrational hatred for creatives trying to make a better life for themselves and others."
Sure guy.

When this is all over, we are going to have less scripted shows, smaller episode orders, and way less writers being employed. Not to mention less ďcrewĒ all of which are delivering GrubHub since they get fucked in all of this along with tens of thousands of others who support the workers/actors/crew during production. If you stepped outside your bubble, lots of people are losing their jobs over this. But I really hope that 20-something writer who wrote a few lines in The Rookie gets their big payday! They deserves more than $1000 a day!!!!!
Old 07-24-23, 12:29 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Gizmo
There is always someone else to come along to buy said item vs writers who can be replaced with AI and reduce their output significantly
There are actually not other writers to come along because they are all in the union. And if you think AI can write a show that will make a network money, then you are as out of touch as a studio executive is.

but hey, their union wants them to strike so let them strike!
You know the union is made up of people in the union and the strike was voted on by the union, right? Like...you do know how this thing you are talking about works, right? ...right?

Oh no...are you an AI? You legally have to tell me.

Originally Posted by Gizmo
Sure guy.

When this is all over, we are going to have less scripted shows, smaller episode orders, and way less writers being employed. Not to mention less “crew” all of which are delivering GrubHub since they get fucked in all of this along with tens of thousands of others who support the workers/actors/crew during production. If you stepped outside your bubble, lots of people are losing their jobs over this. But I really hope that 20-something writer who wrote a few lines in The Rookie gets their big payday! They deserves more than $1000 a day!!!!!
Nevermind - every time you wrote "less" it should have been "fewer", which both an AI and a writer on "The Rookie" would have gotten correct.
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Old 07-24-23, 12:37 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Gizmo
When this is all over, we are going to have less scripted shows, smaller episode orders, and way less writers being employed.
That would've happened regardless of the strike; the studios overextended into streaming, and have to scale back.

Originally Posted by Gizmo
Not to mention less “crew” all of which...
You've already made this claim, and it was a poor argument then. Shouldn't you be blaming the studios for forcing writers and actors to strike, putting the crew out of work, just to avoid paying them more reasonably? Why not hate on the studio for apparently extending the strike instead of negotiating in the hopes that writers will get kicked out of their homes?
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...eir-apartments

Does that sound like the AMPTP is negotiating in good faith?

Not to mention the crew, who are union themselves, are in support of the writers and actors striking. To the point of refusing to cross picket lines.

Originally Posted by Gizmo
They deserves more than $1000 a day!!!!!
When that pay translates to a livable wage over the course of a year, since, surprise, writer's don't work year-round, and only get a few weeks at that wage, if that, then they more than deserve it. Do you think Bob Iger deserves to make the average $84,000 per workday (5 days a week, 52 weeks a year) he earns?
https://fortune.com/2022/11/21/disne...-awards-bonus/

Last edited by Jay G.; 07-24-23 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 07-24-23, 12:41 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Draven
You know the union is made up of people in the union and the strike was voted on by the union, right? Like...you do know how this thing you are talking about works, right? ...right?
Not to mention that the vote was 97.85% in favor of strike.

But Gizmo doesn't have any actual arguments of value, so has to make up stuff, like the union is somehow "forcing" writers to strike. Won't someone think of that 2.15% (who maybe didn't vote in favor, but aren't oppose to supporting what the majority of their compatriots want) ?

In reality, Gizmo is only defending the 1%, the studio execs fattening themselves off of the creativity of others.

Speaking of AI and the studio execs:

Old 07-24-23, 12:49 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Gizmo is complaining about writers being unreasonable.

Meanwhile Universal Studios is being fined for illegally trimming trees to the point where they likely killed the tree to prevent picketing writers from having shade.
https://abc7chicago.com/los-angeles-...fine/13533938/

Before and after picture:


The studios are acting like cartoon supervillains.
Old 07-24-23, 12:51 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

He disingenuously "supports" the crew, when they don't even want his support. They aren't on his side. It's ridiculous.

Simping for executives. It's pathetic.
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Old 07-24-23, 12:53 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by spainlinx0
He disingenuously "supports" the crew, when they don't even want his support. They aren't on his side. It's ridiculous.
And there's zero doubt that if the crew ever strikes, he'd instantly switch and complain about them, and how they're putting writers and actors out of work. Apparently everyone has to consider the well being of everyone else before trying to improve one's own conditions. Everyone that is, except for the studios, which get carte blanche to keep exploiting everyone, since in Gizmo's mind, nobody is allowed to strike for better conditions.
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Old 07-24-23, 01:11 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Gizmo is complaining about writers being unreasonable.

Meanwhile Universal Studios is being fined for illegally trimming trees to the point where they likely killed the tree to prevent picketing writers from having shade.
https://abc7chicago.com/los-angeles-...fine/13533938/

Before and after picture:


The studios are acting like cartoon supervillains.
They trim trees all over LA during this time. This isnít anything new and the studio gave them some tents so they can play dress up or whatever they are doing nowadays.
Old 07-24-23, 01:14 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Not to mention that the vote was 97.85% in favor of strike.

But Gizmo doesn't have any actual arguments of value, so has to make up stuff, like the union is somehow "forcing" writers to strike. Won't someone think of that 2.15% (who maybe didn't vote in favor, but aren't oppose to supporting what the majority of their compatriots want) ?

In reality, Gizmo is only defending the 1%, the studio execs fattening themselves off of the creativity of others.

Speaking of AI and the studio execs:

Yes, everyone wants better pay (and for them, residuals for work they did decades ago). That doesnít change the fact they are going to get hosed at the end of this just like last time.

Im not in the mind that replacing the CEOs or cutting their pay will make any difference, but every story needs a villain, so letís complain about that and not the diminishing returns on TV/Movies in general with the AYCE scenarios consumers are use to.

But I do enjoy everyoneís comments. Watching people defend those that make $1000 a day is amusing.
Old 07-24-23, 01:15 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

The city trims those trees. They were fined by the city for doing this (unfortunately the maximum fine for first time offenders is 250 bucks so well worth it for them)

This is like right out of a playbook:
"You realize if the union gets all their demands, a lot of you guys are going to be fired"
"The business just isn't making enough money. We can't afford to pay you."
"Maybe you should break with the union? Why let a few people determine whether you can work or not"
"Think about the little people hurt by your decisions."
"If you push them, they'll just fire you and give your jobs to the robots"
"Executive pay isn't the problem. They're your buddies. It's those union boss mobsters."
"Are they paying you to stay at home? How are you going to make a living? I'm concerned for your well being."

On a side note my wife is in a union and we got a letter in the mail saying "you know they can't force you to pay dues, right? Sign here and we'll make sure they don't collect dues from you anymore."
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Old 07-24-23, 01:32 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Making fun of us for supporting people making "1k a day" while simping for people who make 100 times that. Yes, we're the idiots. You must really love the taste of boot.
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Old 07-24-23, 01:39 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
I also wonder if a show like X-Files had been smaller and more serialized and focused on Chris Carter's vision, would we ever have seen a take on the show as unique as Darrin Morgan's, which introduced humor into the show in a strong way, which then lead to Vince Gilligan's humorous episodes, which then led to Vince Gilligan creating Breaking Bad.... etc.
Very likely no.

It would probably be more like Stranger Things with a definitive arc and no room for the offbeat stories like "Jose Chung's From Outer Space" and "Bad Blood," or the Monster of the Week episodes.

In the first two-thirds of its run, The X-Files did really good job of balancing the longer mythology arc with the one-off procedural stories.

If The X-Files were made today, I don't think there's any way it would be in same weekly twenty-four episode seasons it was in the 1990s. It would be produced as ten episode seasons of straight mythology and arc on either cable or a streaming service, and there wouldn't be space for anything that deviated from that rigid formula.

In a similar be vein, I would bring up Babylon 5, where the show's creator, J. Michael Straczynski, essentially wrote the whole series himself, writing 92 out of 110 episodes over five years (including a run of 72 consecutive episodes from the end of season two until the final episode of season five, broken by only a single episode in season five scripted by Neil Gaiman). While awed by the accomplishment, I do think that some of the stories were a little clunky and could have used some polish, and I think a small writers' room would have improved the show quite a bit, especially in the fifth and final season.
Old 07-24-23, 01:49 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Gizmo
They trim trees all over LA during this time. This isnít anything new...
Universal specifically didn't have any permits for trimming those trees, hence the fine. That didn't stop them from initially lying and saying it was standard and scheduled.

Universal did something explicitly illegal, with no justification, and the only reason that makes sense was to hurt picketers. That they made a half-hearted non-apology and a poor attempt to "fix" it doesn't mean that they didn't do something illegal to try and hurt picketers.

And here you are, still offending the studios performing illegal strike-busting actions. '

I'm not in the mind that replacing the CEOs or cutting their pay will make any difference...
So you're arguing that it's wrong, but you'd rather complain about writers trying to make enough to afford an apartment and get off food stamps, instead of the studio exec earning way more while contributing way less to the actual creative content of the studio.

Or, more likely, you don't think CEOs earning exorbitant amounts is bad at all, since you consider yourself a "temporary embarrassed millionaire." Surely you'll make it one day, you just have to work harder, right? So you get mad at anyone who is trying to improve their lives the "wrong" way in your view, via collective bargaining, fairer laws, etc. You're just keeping your blinders on and letting yourself get exploited for the rest of your life due to your delusion that the US is actually a meritocracy, instead of incredibly stacked in favor of existing millionaires/billionaires and their corporations.
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Old 07-24-23, 01:52 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
If The X-Files were made today, I don't think there's any way it would be in same weekly twenty-four episode seasons it was in the 1990s. It would be produced as ten episode seasons of straight mythology and arc on either cable or a streaming service, and there wouldn't be space for anything that deviated from that rigid formula.
It's sounding like you forgot about The X-Files seasons 10 & 11, released in 2016 and 2018, with 6 and 10 episodes, respectively.

Fortunately, they got in one Darin Morgan episode each season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eason_10_(2016)
Old 07-24-23, 02:08 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
It's sounding like you forgot about The X-Files seasons 10 & 11, released in 2016 and 2018, with 6 and 10 episodes, respectively.
No, I didn't forget about them. But I often wish I could.

"The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat" was really good, though. Probably a top-ten episode. The "Were-Monster" was good, too. Everything else...
Old 07-24-23, 02:41 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by spainlinx0
Making fun of us for supporting people making "1k a day" while simping for people who make 100 times that. Yes, we're the idiots. You must really love the taste of boot.
Are you crying over a dozen CEOs making that much? How much does Ryan Murphy make? Greg Berlanti? Phoebe Walker? Shonda Rhimes?I can keep going with writers who make ridiculous amounts of money if you like. That type of payout if OK as long as itís not a CEO? How are those boots tasting?
Old 07-24-23, 02:47 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Universal specifically didn't have any permits for trimming those trees, hence the fine. That didn't stop them from initially lying and saying it was standard and scheduled.

Universal did something explicitly illegal, with no justification, and the only reason that makes sense was to hurt picketers. That they made a half-hearted non-apology and a poor attempt to "fix" it doesn't mean that they didn't do something illegal to try and hurt picketers.

And here you are, still offending the studios performing illegal strike-busting actions. '


So you're arguing that it's wrong, but you'd rather complain about writers trying to make enough to afford an apartment and get off food stamps, instead of the studio exec earning way more while contributing way less to the actual creative content of the studio.

Or, more likely, you don't think CEOs earning exorbitant amounts is bad at all, since you consider yourself a "temporary embarrassed millionaire." Surely you'll make it one day, you just have to work harder, right? So you get mad at anyone who is trying to improve their lives the "wrong" way in your view, via collective bargaining, fairer laws, etc. You're just keeping your blinders on and letting yourself get exploited for the rest of your life due to your delusion that the US is actually a meritocracy, instead of incredibly stacked in favor of existing millionaires/billionaires and their corporations.
Itís fire season. Everyone is LA is getting their trees trimmed to avoid fire season. This happens every year all around SoCal in waves. This is only an issue because the writers need a villain of the week to keep them in the media.
Old 07-24-23, 02:51 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Jay G.
It's sounding like you forgot about The X-Files seasons 10 & 11, released in 2016 and 2018, with 6 and 10 episodes, respectively.

Fortunately, they got in one Darin Morgan episode each season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eason_10_(2016)
Both those actors got a big payday and weíre likely unable to shoot 22 episodes a year as both were/are in demand. The cost of those seasons were likely dramatically higher vs other Fox scripted fare at the time.

I rewatched both recently and both seasons had some good episodes but also some absolute stinkers. Par the course for X-Files last season 5 or 6.


Old 07-24-23, 02:57 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Gizmo
Itís fire season. Everyone is LA is getting their trees trimmed to avoid fire season. This happens every year all around SoCal in waves.
They didn't have a permit. If this was something normal that happens "every year," why didn't they have a permit? Also, do you think the level they trimmed it to is actually reasonable for any season?

Like, the amount of twisting you're attempting to do to avoid admitting a studio did something illegal and immoral just to make picketing a little harder is amazing.
Old 07-24-23, 02:57 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Who in the entertainment industry hurt you? Where the hell is all this hostility coming from? And you just keep piling on over and over.
Old 07-24-23, 03:00 PM
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Re: Writers Strike 2023

Originally Posted by Gizmo
Are you crying over a dozen CEOs making that much? How much does Ryan Murphy make? Greg Berlanti? Phoebe Walker? Shonda Rhimes?I can keep going with writers who make ridiculous amounts of money if you like. That type of payout if OK as long as itís not a CEO? How are those boots tasting?
Classic whataboutism. Except, who gave those writers those exorbitant paydays? Why, the overpaid execs of course.

How about this: I agree that handful of showrunners got overpaid by stupid studio execs, and you agree that those stupid execs are overpaid as well.

The union strike has nothing to do with the massive payday a small handful of writers get, and all about make sure the vast majority of writes, like 99.999% of them, that don't get those massive paydays at least get paid a living wage for their work.

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