DJariya

See you in 2024 or 2025 for season 2.

Artman

Surprised this hasn't gotten more of a discussion here, but perhaps it's representative of the general waning interest...instead of building as the season progressed (as HotDragons has) it's declined. Overall I thought it was a strong finish, nothing surprising about the reveals - there was never any indication that the writers were sophisticated enough to give us anything other than the simplest of outcomes.

There was simply no need to be following five different groups in this season. You spend so little time with the characters that the season both moves too slow and too fast at the same time - the characters are one note, with motivations and decision making that doesn't feel real, as if they're just pieces being moved across the middle-earth map. You could've just spent this season with the elves, the stranger who they encounter and the creation of the first three rings imo.

I did think the actor who I didn't like previously seems to be much better in his new role now, just judging from his few scenes...so that's a positive. Looking forward to future seasons, but this whole thing is just destined to be something that should've been much better. Just from a business standpoint - why wouldn't they have hired top shelf showrunners, demand it look and feel like the films, and retain the services of the Tolkien lore advisors?

Hokeyboy

Switch the L's in the title to N's and you got my response to both this episode and the entire series. I was hoping this episode would somehow tie everything together in a way that would make up for litany of misfires throughout the season, but nope.

Why So Blu?

It did finish strong and I called the final reveal, so I am happy. Bring on the 4K disc set!

johnnysd

I can see book purists not liking it, but I enjoyed the show quite a bit. I kind of think it did look like the movies. People seem to just be overly harsh and unforgiving. Not sure you need big name showrunners as much as showrunners that show passion for the story. This season was sort of a long prologue and I thought the writing progressed very far during the show. Could it have been better and tighter? Sure. But there was a lot of good here. And I really liked the last couple of moments pulled straight from the movies or not. Really like the job the actor portraying the Stranger has been doing. I expected a slightly more complicated resolution but not sure the identity of Sauron was really supposed to be all that shocking.

Bandoman

I knew who the stranger was from the get-go, but I was torn on Halbrand - didn't know whether he'd turn out to be Sauron himself or the witch king of Angmar (Lord of the Nazgul). As soon as he started helping Celebrimbor it was clear he was Sauron.

I agree that this was simplistic and predictable, but it was visually stunning and stayed true generally to Tolkein lore, so I'm not really disappointed.

ben12

What a boring dud this show turned out to be!

Superman07

I’ve never read any of the books so didn’t know what to expect. In general I thought the season was good. Could it have been better? Sure. I at least thought the last 3 episodes really picked up pace.

I’m honestly not sure what some of you are expecting who have found it bad (?). A LOT of shows I find take 4-6 episodes to find their footing and voice. Seems to be more the case when it’s shows based of books since theirs so much time needed to set up characters and the world. This didn’t seem too different to me.

I think the two biggest issues for me, at parts of the story, were the Harfoots and Galadriel. The Harfoots, we’re finally off from everything else, but as we come to find out that’s on purpose. It’s who they are. By the end, they went through a journey and changed while paying a price. Galadriel was just too bull in a china shop with out any tact. For somebody that lives millennia (?) she sure seemed in a rush. However, also by the end, she seemed to have been knocked back a peg or two. I’d imagine a lot of you that complained about here would find that a good thing.

Some questions/musings:

• Was there some significance to the one main person the wizard killed? It seems to have a crown. If I recall that looked like the wraiths (?) hunting Frodo in LOTR films.
• what was the deal with the brother and sister? She’s meant to become Queen, but after all the sea calling out, the son dies in a fire? Seemed he might not be dead and the horse was going after him.
• Was there some exposition in episode was about what happened to Sauron? You all talked about him getting “split”, but I thought Galadriel was looking for him since they just thought he disappeared.

I know the source material is old, but for those of you that have read them, would appreciate it if you spoiler potential plot points. Examples above about rings and carriers.

rennervision

No heart and utterly soulless. Nearly every character is one dimensional and speaks their lines as if for the first time in a read-through of the script. Dialogue sounds like it was written by a computer or people with no life experiences. (Although I'll admit I heard a couple of lines last week that I thought weren't completely devoid of wisdom. Maybe they were stolen off someone's Facebook page.) Elrond and Durin's friendship was the only thing that felt like LOTR, but for some reason there is no chemistry between any of the other characters. Peter Jackson had a real passion for this world and you can clearly feel the difference when you watch his movies.

JackoOnHisBacko

Why So Blu?

The wizard killed three. They're cultists of some kind, but they're not the standard Nazgul we've come to now. The Nazgul were corrupted by Sauron and were all from the kingdom of men. They were essentially the human ring-bearers. These three females were something else.

The brother/sister angle is peculiar, because Isildur's destiny is set in stone. We may not have seen him again after the volcano but he's still alive. He'll be back. I think his sister will get screwed over by the Palantir.

As far as Sauron being "split" that was from Adar. Adar had said that he split him at some point -- or thought that he killed him, which is why they had that akward exchange when Halbrand helped Galadriel a couple of episodes ago.

Halbrand: Do you know me?

Adar: No.

I assume Adar split him open when Halbrand was in a different a form.

fujishig

I had many problems with the finale, though I overall enjoyed the show and hope they can fix the flaws:

That heel turn for Halbrand was like wrestling-level sudden. Yes, they dropped clues all throughout the series, and they probably devote an episode next season on how he came to be on the raft or whatever, but he went from like being mortally injured to riding on horseback through middle earth, getting healed in a day and then doing mustache twirling suspicious stuff all while Celebrimbor and the rest just danced to his tune.

This revision makes Galadriel look like a fool. Especially when you consider the opening to the LotR and how she's like "the elves were wisest... and those dirty humans only seek power." I realize that is supposedly entirely unconnected but this revision basically makes it her fault. And I'm not talking about the saving Halbrand stuff, as far as I'm concerned she was tricked, I'm talking about hiding who Halbrand was from Elrond and the others just so the rings could be created. And I get that she is basically single minded about pursuing Sauron even more so now, and that's her ticket to staying in Middle Earth and getting even more revenge, but as we know the story she basically doomed them all. Did she really think her winning that battle in her mind caused Sauron to slink off, and that this revelation about three rings would be enough to thwart whatever plans he has?

IMHO if they wanted to tell this story they make it less straightforward: Halbrand is more conflicted about what he did, Galadriel is closer to Halbrand to make a potential turn for her believable and more heart wrenching. As it is, there's no way she was going to make that decision, not for a second did I think that was going to happen and it's not just because that didn't happen in the books. Similarly not for a second did I believe Sauron would've been content in Numenor if Galadriel hadn't pushed him and that that all wasn't part of his plan.

If you take a step back and look at the Harfoot storyline, it was all just misdirection to give the audience a reason to believe that Sauron was someone else. That was by far the weakest plotline in an action oriented show, but also perhaps something they felt they needed to fit in because it fits in more with the Hobbit and such. But just pure fanservice, these powerful beings just make a bad assumption and that's that. Also, it was almost laughable how that one guy went from stabbed to just fine back to dying and the Stranger just looks on and doesn't attempt to heal or anything. Also laughable that he went from barely uttering a word to quoting Gandalf (or himself).

I also assumed Adar split Sauron open or somehow wounded him and that caused him to be in this other state. Halbrand even says the reason he joined Galadriel was because they had a common enemy so I don't think Adar was just lying about that, and poor Adar just wants like a place of perpetual night so his friends can wander around (and slaughter) during the day. And poor Isildur will be under that rubble for two years (in our time), I'm surprised there wasn't even a tease about him.

JeremyM

To be honest I prefer not to binge-watch stuff and typically enjoy the weekly release format, but I kind of think it would have been better to binge this show. That said overall I did enjoy it and I plan on rewatching it fairly soon. No, it's not as good as the Lord of the Rings films but it never could be just as the Hobbit films never could be.

I would say they can stop being coy about who the Stranger is--now that he is definitively a Wizard as we all figured, he's obviously Gandalf with his affinity for the Hobbit-folk. Then again, I guess by the way he was talking at the end of the episode they did stop being coy.

Hokeyboy

A legit take on why this show doesn't work (spoilered for size):


Can't say I disagree.

RocShemp

Damn. If that's accurate, I'm not gonna bother finally giving this show a shot.

fujishig

I'm pretty sure we'll find out that it was all his plan, as improbable and impossible as much of it is, and they'll handwave it like harfoots being able to fight off fire breathing sorcerers, or the magical concept of a ring and the concept of alloys being enough to stretch the mystical power of mythril. And the main reason why I think Sauron planned this (or at least most of it) is why have that bag and that symbol in the first place?

I do agree with the binge watch thing, if only for this seemingly unrelated reason: if you release all the episodes at once, you don't have the burden of trying to craft a plot that "tricks" the audience and that the audience will feel let down about because someone spoiled it weeks ago. Release them all at once and the people with fan theories might as well have been people that binge watched the episodes and you don't get that sense of disappointment because everyone is wary of spoilers.

Why So Blu?

Well, at this point you may as well, you already read the spoilers.

MrX

He nailed it

Galadriel is just awful

If the stranger is Gandalf, him repeating lines from Fellowship pretty much confirms it, I imagine the hardcore Tolkien fans are irate since he doesn’t show up in the lore until the Third Age.

MrX

He added more to the thread if you go to his page.

fujishig

There's apparently some writing by Tolkien that indicates that Gandolf could have shown up in the second age. But he doesn't go East and certainly doesn't participate in the battle pre LotR. In any case he doesn't get the name "Gandalf" for quite a while so he can just be an Istar (who goes around speaking exactly like Gandalf).

Also this is the lowest hanging fruit but somehow still incredible:

RocShemp

Olórin did sometimes walk among the Elves disguised as an Elf himself, prior to the Third Age.

Josh-da-man

Maybe Galadriel should have pulled up the Amazon app, crawled through it, and chewed out the writers...

eXcentris

So who is the dude who fell from the sky? He said his name transates to "wizard" but which wizard is he?

story

Josh-da-man

The line he said about following his nose is from Gandalf.

There's also some moth imagery associated with him, which could also point to Gandalf. (Though, I think the moths in Jackson's movies were messengers for Radagast, who was sending Eagles to aid Gandalf.)

And going east to Rhűn might imply that he's either Allatar or Pallando, one of the Blue wizards. There's also some canon evidence that the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle Earth during the Second Age, thousands of years before Saruman, Radagast, and Gandalf arrived in the Third Age.

But this series is playing so fast and loose with the established canon of Tolkien that they're basically rewriting everything.

The Stranger could also be a sixth Wizard that the producers and writers just pulled out of their asses.