Red Dog

Meh. I'm in your generalized category and have no problem with streaming. Have Netflix and Amazon. I would venture that Trek fans are more welcome to streaming than most. But you put it behind an essentially stand-alone paywall (where the rest of the world gets it with Netflix), that is obviously a problem. You do that and the show better be awesome. If not, expect the criticism. Heavy criticism.

dhmac

No, in general, we have problems with Discovery because the writing is absolutely horrible and the main character is not very likeable. But every longtime ST fan I know really likes Anson Mount as Captain Pike, so if you want to understand what these fans want in a ST show, you can start with him and try to understand why he's a much better character than Michael Burnham.

hdtv00

Traxan

TNG was boring because of the asinine Roddenbery Box limitations. The show was boring beyond belief because of the restrictions against inter-crew conflicts and every show hit the reset button at the end so nothing changed. When TNG ended its run, Picard and company were the exact same people they were in S1.

DS9 has held up best as people realized the balls that show had. It may not have boldly gone somewhere on a ship but it boldly went into things like dictatorship, war, religion, and race. I think it was when Ron Moore was unleashed on BSG and people looked back and saw how he experimented with many of his ideas on DS9. Just "In the Pale Moonlight" alone was more revolutionary than all of TNG or VOY, and none of the other Treks would have had the balls to do what they did on that one episode. And unlike TNG, DS9's characters were all completely different at the end than they were at the start, most notably Nog. He went from reprobate to Star Fleet lieutenant in seven seasons.

Voyager was a sloppy mess, made worse by the premise. The Captain STRANDED her crew 70 years from home. I forget where I read it but someone called it "Gilligan's Island Syndrome," where if the characters get what they want, the show is over, whether it's off the island or back to the Alpha quadrant. And we knew the show would run seven years so any teasing of getting home was a waste. Add to it sloppy writing, blown opportunities for conflict with the Maquis crew and Tom Paris and what many felt was blatant sexual pandering with 7 of 9 and you had a mess.The finale was the final fuck you. We got no closure on what happened to the characters.

Enterprise's main problem besides the Twin Towers of Fail (Berman and Braga) was that Bakula sucks harder than my Dyson. He was absolutely awful. Plus once again we had massive mistreatment of another Vulcan. T'Pol doing drugs to feel emotions? Not to mention repeatedly putting her in as little clothing as possible for more pandering. The final fuck you was that ending, which even Blalock publicly blasted.

For the life of me I don't get what they have against Vulcans. Spock was as popular as Kirk but they have shit on Vulcans ever since. THey were all but omitted from TNG. In DS9 you had a criminal/traitor, a mass murderer, and an unmitigated arrogant asshole. In Voyager, at least once per season Tuvok lost his mind. On Enterprise, T'Pol did drugs to feel emotions, got naked and jumped on a subordinate officer and nearly lezed it up with Hoshi. And don't get me started on JJ's Spock.

Time has made it abundantly clear the only people who should be let near the Trek franchise are Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore.

TGM

TNG was boring.....? it's the best of what Star Trek was meant to represent. gtfo mate.

PatD

This is a long shot hope, but I hope that Star Trek: Picard becomes a smash hit and it inspires a final TNG movie to wrap things up in a satisfying way like Star Trek VI did in 1991 (complete with a signatures-in-the-stars coda). Hey, a Trekkie can dream, right?

Sonic

Yeah I'm a bit shocked hearing that comment about boredom.

I'm not a huge Star Trek fan by any means. But damn did I enjoy watching TNG on television. Really fantastic series especially the borg episodes.

Mike86

TNG is far and away my favorite if for no other reason than I feel like it has the best crew. I know that's debatable between it and TOS but I still give TNG the slight edge.

If I were ranking them:
TNG
DS9 (I've actually really come around to it recently)
TOS
ENT
TAS (if it counts)
VOY



DISCO

DJariya

How many episodes of Discovery did you even watch? 1, 2? Season 1 was a very divisive season (mainly the 1st half). And I don't know if you were even aware, season 2 had received much more acclaim due to the addition of Captain Christopher Pike (Anson Mount) and they introduced a younger Spock as a major part of the story arc. You're selling yourself short by completely writing it off without giving a season, especially season 2 a complete watch and then giving a better assessment. If you really just aren't interested and don't care, so be it.

Mike86

Season one and a couple episodes of season two. I started it after getting All Access for Peele's version of The Twilight Zone. I just felt like I had seen enough by the point I stopped watching and the reviews I've watched lead me to think I wouldn't change my mind on it. If season three gets better reviews I'll consider going back to it, but at this point I just don't have the interest.

hdtv00

Not as shocked as I am by this comment " When TNG ended its run, Picard and company were the exact same people they were in S1. " ...dude is off his rocker. Or this comment " DS9 has held up best as people realized the balls that show had. It may not have boldly gone somewhere on a ship but it boldly went into things like dictatorship, war, religion, and race. "....um yea TNG did none of those....dude is talking out his ass. Or never even watched TNG. End of Story.

Traxan

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the Roddenberry Box. He had a policy starting with TNG that there were to be no conflicts between characters and they were to have no internal personal issues to struggle against. This is documented, not to mention I was told about it directly from John De Lancie when I met him at Comdex in 1995. He said it "bound the hands" of the actors because it gave them no challenge to overcome. In TNG, all the conflicts were the result of external, alien influences. And Roddenberry also had a policy of restoring things to the way they were so every episode could be watched out of sequence and you didn't need to know prior events. In other words, the opposite of a serial. The ultimate example was BoBW. I thought it was absolutely asinine that Riker got promoted to Captain of Enterprise and then when it was over, he was demoted to Commander and back in his seat next to Picard.Star Fleet was nearly wiped out by the Borg, he would absolutely be needed as a Captain. But no we have to hit the reset switch.

The only time TNG was interesting was First Contact. Now that was good stuff. Picard lost his marbles and got violent. The sanctified Zephram Cochran was a drunk and a cad. Worf and Picard got into a fight. Data teased betrayal. I love FC but it was done once Gene died and the Box went away. That was also what helped DS9. The best thing Gene did for the franchise was to die.

No show did character development like DS9. Come on, TNG didn't come close.

Sisko: from grieving widower who wanted to kill Picard with his bare hands to a diety
Odo: From exiled from his people to returning to save them
Kira: Former terrorist who came to terms with her violent past
Bashir: Hid his genetic augmentation before it came out unwillingly. His fight with his father is another example of something impossible under Roddenberry.
Jadzia: probably the one solid member of the crew. She was also the most fun.
Ezri: Had to deal with an unplanned joining
Worf: Also separated from his people he returned home a hero and ally of the Chancellor he got elevated to the job.
Garak: The best anti-hero Trek ever had. Also in exile, he went home in the end
Nog: From criminal punk to Star Fleet, had a great episode where he dealt with PTSD
Jake: Not much growth but the Ben/Jake relationship was lauded as one of the best example of a black father/son relationship on TV.

Not to mention Gul Dukat is the best villain in the franchise. Please don't say Khan, he was so overrated. And the sneakiness of Kai Winn.

TNG didn't come close to these characters.

hdtv00

Ok guy lol.

PatD

Seriously? Trek was a huge cultural phenomenon before DS9 was created. Gene Roddenberry created 2 of the most iconic television shows ever created.

DS9 (while a fine work of television) and the subsequent shows never touched TOS or TNG for sheer fun, inspirational, escapist fare. There's a reason DS9 and the other shows never got theatrical movies.

Traxan

Yes, because of how DS9 ended. TNG kept its crew together because movies were in the cards. DS9 scattered its crew to the winds. Odo, Worf, Garak, and O'Brien all left the station to go home and Sisko became a god. All that was left was Kira, Bashir, and Ezri. A movie would require rebuilding the whole crew. As for the fun element, DS9 was not fun. It was a dark show with only the Ferengi (and Morn) for comedy. Ron Moore does not make happy TV.

Voyager's ending just plain sucked. That should have been the next-to-last episode, with the final showing what became of the Maquis, Tom, and Seven. A coda movie would make no sense. You don't make a movie to tie up loose ends, it should have been done in the finale. Another crap ending from Berman and Braga, who topped themselves wth the shitty Enterprise ending that drew criticism from Blalock, who was a big Trek fan. I'm not surprised she never showed up at a single con after the show ended.

Nogura

Can't argue with most of your post, but FYI, this part is not true. Met her myself at a Vulkon in November 2005.

PatD

And those three shows weren't as popular or iconic as TOS and TNG otherwise they would have left them open-ended.

Trevor

I very much enjoyed TNG, but it’s 4th at best in my rankings.

TOS - by a mile
TAS
DS9
TNG
Discovery - may rise
Voyager


Haven’t watched enough Enterprise to judge.

Giantrobo

After reading the last page or two...I'll say I'm a BIGGER TREKKIE than ALL you SOB's on here.

I've loved ALL the series. from TOS to DISCO and I'm sure I'll love PICARD and Lower Decks. I love them for the Trek DNA and their attempt to be something new thus giving us new stories. You guys want the same ole shit over and over and that blows my mind that you guy can be so rigid and stuck in your ways. As mentioned, you're all Old Men in this area.

I LOVE that they're trying do new things with the franchise and evolving.

Mike86

Giantrobo

Shit, I'm a KISS fan, so I know aaaaaall toooooo well that my faves can put out gar-bahj.

That said, you guys hate all the new Trek stuff because it's not the old stuff. You've said it over and over and you can't talk you way out of this. So Yeah, I do question your fandom when all you want is the same ole shit. Wanting the same old shit from 50 years ago and NOT allowing a franchise to do new things doesn't make you true a fan either. If you want that go watch TOS.

Hell, even when they showed much loved Anson/Pike on the Enterprise deck on DISCOVERY ....Old Fans BITCHED AND MOANED about how the deck "wasn't true to TOS"!!! GAAAHHH!AHAHAHAH!

Mike86

Giantrobo

That bolded part alone tells me you don't know what you're talking about.

DISCOVERY has tons of humanity both in humans and aliens. You guys claim you want humanity in ST but when they give it to you in a character like Burnahm you hate her...you hate her being in touch with her human emotions....you hate her being in touch with Vulcan lack of emotions...You HATE HER. I saw post after post bitching that DISCOVERY was being too emotional/Human.

Why So Blu?

brayzie

Yeah, but can' the argument be made that some of these shows aren't necessarily doing something new, but just hopping on the trends that are currently popular. Wasn't the criticism of the Kelvin Stark Trek films was that too much emphasis was placed on action and less on exploration?

Another argument could be made that maybe not everything needs to be a franchise with films and television shows coming out so often.

I'm not a die hard fan. I like the original series, love TNG, and think the Star Trek films with Shatner are awesome. Galaxy Quest was great. The Orville is great fun and despite being a parody, plays up the sci-fi angle well.
DS9 could be pretty good at times.
The ST:TNG films, the JJ reboot films, Voyager, and Enterprise are so-so at best.