Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
#126
DVD Talk God
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 130,282
Received 616 Likes
on
495 Posts
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Most of the people who I noticed online who are angry about these streaming versions of Star Trek are older people (late 40's or above) who don't stream and are mad why Star Trek isn't on "free TV" And they grew up on the original series, movies and The next generation.
With the Star Trek: Picard trailer, I think it's lightened that stance with the nostalgia factor a little and some more are willing to open up their wallets now.
Bottom line, just put a good show on TV that will make people happy and create buzz and most people (not all) will be more than happy to support it.
I acknowledge that Star Trek: Discovery is divisive among fans. Not everyone likes it. And I accept that. It took a different route with the brand and some people took offense to it. Robert Meyer Burnett, who produced the Star Trek: The Next Generation BD extras and also hosted some of the BD's features is a huge Star Trek fan. He directed Free Enterprise and he watched Discovery and hates it. He criticizes it heavily on his YouTube channel. But he likes the Picard trailer and is looking forward to it.
With the Star Trek: Picard trailer, I think it's lightened that stance with the nostalgia factor a little and some more are willing to open up their wallets now.
Bottom line, just put a good show on TV that will make people happy and create buzz and most people (not all) will be more than happy to support it.
I acknowledge that Star Trek: Discovery is divisive among fans. Not everyone likes it. And I accept that. It took a different route with the brand and some people took offense to it. Robert Meyer Burnett, who produced the Star Trek: The Next Generation BD extras and also hosted some of the BD's features is a huge Star Trek fan. He directed Free Enterprise and he watched Discovery and hates it. He criticizes it heavily on his YouTube channel. But he likes the Picard trailer and is looking forward to it.
#127
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
#128
DVD Talk Special Edition
#129
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
There has always been blowback from the Trekkies when there's a new Star Trek series.
A lot of the old school Trekkies didn't like TNG when it debuted in 1987. (I don't really remember this, as I was really young and didin't follow the fandom back then.)
Then a lot of Trekkies were shitting on DS9 because it wasn't set on a ship, and it was morally ambiguous and didn't adhere to Roddenberry's utopian vision of the future. (This I do remember.)
And then, when Voyager debuted, it sort of split a large segment of the fandom between the DS9 camp and Voyager camp. A lot of fans liked one series and hated the other for the durations of their runs.
And then Enterprise came along, and people didn't like it because it was a prequel, and it had a TNG aesthetic rather a TOS aesthetic. And we can't forget the corny theme song.
A lot of the old school Trekkies didn't like TNG when it debuted in 1987. (I don't really remember this, as I was really young and didin't follow the fandom back then.)
Then a lot of Trekkies were shitting on DS9 because it wasn't set on a ship, and it was morally ambiguous and didn't adhere to Roddenberry's utopian vision of the future. (This I do remember.)
And then, when Voyager debuted, it sort of split a large segment of the fandom between the DS9 camp and Voyager camp. A lot of fans liked one series and hated the other for the durations of their runs.
And then Enterprise came along, and people didn't like it because it was a prequel, and it had a TNG aesthetic rather a TOS aesthetic. And we can't forget the corny theme song.
DS9 has held up best as people realized the balls that show had. It may not have boldly gone somewhere on a ship but it boldly went into things like dictatorship, war, religion, and race. I think it was when Ron Moore was unleashed on BSG and people looked back and saw how he experimented with many of his ideas on DS9. Just "In the Pale Moonlight" alone was more revolutionary than all of TNG or VOY, and none of the other Treks would have had the balls to do what they did on that one episode. And unlike TNG, DS9's characters were all completely different at the end than they were at the start, most notably Nog. He went from reprobate to Star Fleet lieutenant in seven seasons.
Voyager was a sloppy mess, made worse by the premise. The Captain STRANDED her crew 70 years from home. I forget where I read it but someone called it "Gilligan's Island Syndrome," where if the characters get what they want, the show is over, whether it's off the island or back to the Alpha quadrant. And we knew the show would run seven years so any teasing of getting home was a waste. Add to it sloppy writing, blown opportunities for conflict with the Maquis crew and Tom Paris and what many felt was blatant sexual pandering with 7 of 9 and you had a mess.The finale was the final fuck you. We got no closure on what happened to the characters.
Enterprise's main problem besides the Twin Towers of Fail (Berman and Braga) was that Bakula sucks harder than my Dyson. He was absolutely awful. Plus once again we had massive mistreatment of another Vulcan. T'Pol doing drugs to feel emotions? Not to mention repeatedly putting her in as little clothing as possible for more pandering. The final fuck you was that ending, which even Blalock publicly blasted.
For the life of me I don't get what they have against Vulcans. Spock was as popular as Kirk but they have shit on Vulcans ever since. THey were all but omitted from TNG. In DS9 you had a criminal/traitor, a mass murderer, and an unmitigated arrogant asshole. In Voyager, at least once per season Tuvok lost his mind. On Enterprise, T'Pol did drugs to feel emotions, got naked and jumped on a subordinate officer and nearly lezed it up with Hoshi. And don't get me started on JJ's Spock.
Time has made it abundantly clear the only people who should be let near the Trek franchise are Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore.
Last edited by Traxan; 07-28-19 at 08:44 PM.
The following users liked this post:
adamblast (12-25-19)
The following users liked this post:
tanman (12-29-19)
#131
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
This is a long shot hope, but I hope that Star Trek: Picard becomes a smash hit and it inspires a final TNG movie to wrap things up in a satisfying way like Star Trek VI did in 1991 (complete with a signatures-in-the-stars coda). Hey, a Trekkie can dream, right?
#132
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
I'm not a huge Star Trek fan by any means. But damn did I enjoy watching TNG on television. Really fantastic series especially the borg episodes.
#133
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
TNG is far and away my favorite if for no other reason than I feel like it has the best crew. I know that's debatable between it and TOS but I still give TNG the slight edge.
If I were ranking them:
TNG
DS9 (I've actually really come around to it recently)
TOS
ENT
TAS (if it counts)
VOY
DISCO
If I were ranking them:
TNG
DS9 (I've actually really come around to it recently)
TOS
ENT
TAS (if it counts)
VOY
DISCO
#134
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
TNG is far and away my favorite if for no other reason than I feel like it has the best crew. I know that's debatable between it and TOS but I still give TNG the slight edge.
If I were ranking them:
TNG
DS9 (I've actually really come around to it recently)
TOS
ENT
TAS (if it counts)
VOY
DISCO
If I were ranking them:
TNG
DS9 (I've actually really come around to it recently)
TOS
ENT
TAS (if it counts)
VOY
DISCO
#135
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Season one and a couple episodes of season two. I started it after getting All Access for Peele's version of The Twilight Zone. I just felt like I had seen enough by the point I stopped watching and the reviews I've watched lead me to think I wouldn't change my mind on it. If season three gets better reviews I'll consider going back to it, but at this point I just don't have the interest.
Last edited by Mike86; 07-28-19 at 10:09 PM.
#136
DVD Talk Special Edition
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Not as shocked as I am by this comment " When TNG ended its run, Picard and company were the exact same people they were in S1. " ...dude is off his rocker. Or this comment " DS9 has held up best as people realized the balls that show had. It may not have boldly gone somewhere on a ship but it boldly went into things like dictatorship, war, religion, and race. "....um yea TNG did none of those....dude is talking out his ass. Or never even watched TNG. End of Story.
#137
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Clearly you are unfamiliar with the Roddenberry Box. He had a policy starting with TNG that there were to be no conflicts between characters and they were to have no internal personal issues to struggle against. This is documented, not to mention I was told about it directly from John De Lancie when I met him at Comdex in 1995. He said it "bound the hands" of the actors because it gave them no challenge to overcome. In TNG, all the conflicts were the result of external, alien influences. And Roddenberry also had a policy of restoring things to the way they were so every episode could be watched out of sequence and you didn't need to know prior events. In other words, the opposite of a serial. The ultimate example was BoBW. I thought it was absolutely asinine that Riker got promoted to Captain of Enterprise and then when it was over, he was demoted to Commander and back in his seat next to Picard.Star Fleet was nearly wiped out by the Borg, he would absolutely be needed as a Captain. But no we have to hit the reset switch.
The only time TNG was interesting was First Contact. Now that was good stuff. Picard lost his marbles and got violent. The sanctified Zephram Cochran was a drunk and a cad. Worf and Picard got into a fight. Data teased betrayal. I love FC but it was done once Gene died and the Box went away. That was also what helped DS9. The best thing Gene did for the franchise was to die.
No show did character development like DS9. Come on, TNG didn't come close.
Sisko: from grieving widower who wanted to kill Picard with his bare hands to a diety
Odo: From exiled from his people to returning to save them
Kira: Former terrorist who came to terms with her violent past
Bashir: Hid his genetic augmentation before it came out unwillingly. His fight with his father is another example of something impossible under Roddenberry.
Jadzia: probably the one solid member of the crew. She was also the most fun.
Ezri: Had to deal with an unplanned joining
Worf: Also separated from his people he returned home a hero and ally of the Chancellor he got elevated to the job.
Garak: The best anti-hero Trek ever had. Also in exile, he went home in the end
Nog: From criminal punk to Star Fleet, had a great episode where he dealt with PTSD
Jake: Not much growth but the Ben/Jake relationship was lauded as one of the best example of a black father/son relationship on TV.
Not to mention Gul Dukat is the best villain in the franchise. Please don't say Khan, he was so overrated. And the sneakiness of Kai Winn.
TNG didn't come close to these characters.
The only time TNG was interesting was First Contact. Now that was good stuff. Picard lost his marbles and got violent. The sanctified Zephram Cochran was a drunk and a cad. Worf and Picard got into a fight. Data teased betrayal. I love FC but it was done once Gene died and the Box went away. That was also what helped DS9. The best thing Gene did for the franchise was to die.
No show did character development like DS9. Come on, TNG didn't come close.
Sisko: from grieving widower who wanted to kill Picard with his bare hands to a diety
Odo: From exiled from his people to returning to save them
Kira: Former terrorist who came to terms with her violent past
Bashir: Hid his genetic augmentation before it came out unwillingly. His fight with his father is another example of something impossible under Roddenberry.
Jadzia: probably the one solid member of the crew. She was also the most fun.
Ezri: Had to deal with an unplanned joining
Worf: Also separated from his people he returned home a hero and ally of the Chancellor he got elevated to the job.
Garak: The best anti-hero Trek ever had. Also in exile, he went home in the end
Nog: From criminal punk to Star Fleet, had a great episode where he dealt with PTSD
Jake: Not much growth but the Ben/Jake relationship was lauded as one of the best example of a black father/son relationship on TV.
Not to mention Gul Dukat is the best villain in the franchise. Please don't say Khan, he was so overrated. And the sneakiness of Kai Winn.
TNG didn't come close to these characters.
Last edited by Traxan; 07-28-19 at 10:32 PM.
#139
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Seriously? Trek was a huge cultural phenomenon before DS9 was created. Gene Roddenberry created 2 of the most iconic television shows ever created.
DS9 (while a fine work of television) and the subsequent shows never touched TOS or TNG for sheer fun, inspirational, escapist fare. There's a reason DS9 and the other shows never got theatrical movies.
DS9 (while a fine work of television) and the subsequent shows never touched TOS or TNG for sheer fun, inspirational, escapist fare. There's a reason DS9 and the other shows never got theatrical movies.
#140
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Seriously? Trek was a huge cultural phenomenon before DS9 was created. Gene Roddenberry created 2 of the most iconic television shows ever created.
DS9 (while a fine work of television) and the subsequent shows never touched TOS or TNG for sheer fun, inspirational, escapist fare. There's a reason DS9 and the other shows never got theatrical movies.
DS9 (while a fine work of television) and the subsequent shows never touched TOS or TNG for sheer fun, inspirational, escapist fare. There's a reason DS9 and the other shows never got theatrical movies.
Voyager's ending just plain sucked. That should have been the next-to-last episode, with the final showing what became of the Maquis, Tom, and Seven. A coda movie would make no sense. You don't make a movie to tie up loose ends, it should have been done in the finale. Another crap ending from Berman and Braga, who topped themselves wth the shitty Enterprise ending that drew criticism from Blalock, who was a big Trek fan. I'm not surprised she never showed up at a single con after the show ended.
#141
Member
#142
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Yes, because of how DS9 ended. TNG kept its crew together because movies were in the cards. DS9 scattered its crew to the winds. Odo, Worf, Garak, and O'Brien all left the station to go home and Sisko became a god. All that was left was Kira, Bashir, and Ezri. A movie would require rebuilding the whole crew. As for the fun element, DS9 was not fun. It was a dark show with only the Ferengi (and Morn) for comedy. Ron Moore does not make happy TV.
Voyager's ending just plain sucked. That should have been the next-to-last episode, with the final showing what became of the Maquis, Tom, and Seven. A coda movie would make no sense. You don't make a movie to tie up loose ends, it should have been done in the finale. Another crap ending from Berman and Braga, who topped themselves wth the shitty Enterprise ending that drew criticism from Blalock, who was a big Trek fan. I'm not surprised she never showed up at a single con after the show ended.
Voyager's ending just plain sucked. That should have been the next-to-last episode, with the final showing what became of the Maquis, Tom, and Seven. A coda movie would make no sense. You don't make a movie to tie up loose ends, it should have been done in the finale. Another crap ending from Berman and Braga, who topped themselves wth the shitty Enterprise ending that drew criticism from Blalock, who was a big Trek fan. I'm not surprised she never showed up at a single con after the show ended.
Last edited by PatD; 07-29-19 at 12:23 PM.
#143
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
I very much enjoyed TNG, but it’s 4th at best in my rankings.
TOS - by a mile
TAS
DS9
TNG
Discovery - may rise
Voyager
Haven’t watched enough Enterprise to judge.
TOS - by a mile
TAS
DS9
TNG
Discovery - may rise
Voyager
Haven’t watched enough Enterprise to judge.
#144
DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,299
Received 1,811 Likes
on
1,130 Posts
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
After reading the last page or two...I'll say I'm a BIGGER TREKKIE than ALL you SOB's on here.
I've loved ALL the series. from TOS to DISCO and I'm sure I'll love PICARD and Lower Decks. I love them for the Trek DNA and their attempt to be something new thus giving us new stories. You guys want the same ole shit over and over and that blows my mind that you guy can be so rigid and stuck in your ways. As mentioned, you're all Old Men in this area.
I LOVE that they're trying do new things with the franchise and evolving.
I've loved ALL the series. from TOS to DISCO and I'm sure I'll love PICARD and Lower Decks. I love them for the Trek DNA and their attempt to be something new thus giving us new stories. You guys want the same ole shit over and over and that blows my mind that you guy can be so rigid and stuck in your ways. As mentioned, you're all Old Men in this area.
I LOVE that they're trying do new things with the franchise and evolving.
#145
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
I’ve said it before and will say it again. The mark of a true fan isn’t necessarily blindly loving every bit of output from a franchise. It takes being a fan to be able to be critical when something isn’t as good as it could be or up to expectations. I’m not saying you aren’t a fan Giantrobo, but I don’t think those of us who don’t like what modern Trek is represented by are less of fans. Much the same way that because I criticized the DCEU movies for being shit (at least the Snyder era films) I’m no less of a DC fan. Star Trek may be evolving, but Discovery from what I’ve watched is only trying to do so in a way to cater to the non-Star Trek fanbase, because Star Trek has never been cool. They realize they have a property with name recognition and are trying to change it to fit a new mold. That isolates some of the existing fanbase.
#146
DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,299
Received 1,811 Likes
on
1,130 Posts
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
I’ve said it before and will say it again. The mark of a true fan isn’t necessarily blindly loving every bit of output from a franchise. It takes being a fan to be able to be critical when something isn’t as good as it could be or up to expectations. I’m not saying you aren’t a fan Giantrobo, but I don’t think those of us who don’t like what modern Trek is represented by are less of fans. Much the same way that because I criticized the DCEU movies for being shit (at least the Snyder era films) I’m no less of a DC fan. Star Trek may be evolving, but Discovery from what I’ve watched is only trying to do so in a way to cater to the non-Star Trek fanbase, because Star Trek has never been cool. They realize they have a property with name recognition and are trying to change it to fit a new mold. That isolates some of the existing fanbase.
Shit, I'm a KISS fan, so I know aaaaaall toooooo well that my faves can put out gar-bahj.
That said, you guys hate all the new Trek stuff because it's not the old stuff. You've said it over and over and you can't talk you way out of this. So Yeah, I do question your fandom when all you want is the same ole shit. Wanting the same old shit from 50 years ago and NOT allowing a franchise to do new things doesn't make you true a fan either. If you want that go watch TOS.
Hell, even when they showed much loved Anson/Pike on the Enterprise deck on DISCOVERY ....Old Fans BITCHED AND MOANED about how the deck "wasn't true to TOS"!!! GAAAHHH!AHAHAHAH!
Last edited by Giantrobo; 07-29-19 at 02:04 PM.
#147
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Shit, I'm a KISS fan, so I know aaaaaall toooooo well that my faves can put out shit.
That said, you guys hate all the new Trek stuff because it's not the old stuff. You've said it over and over and you can't talk you way out of this. So Yeah, I do question your fandom when all you want is the same ole shit. Wanting the same old shit from 50 years ago and NOT allowing a franchise to do new things doesn't make you true a fan either. If you want that go watch TOS.
Hell, even when they showed Pike on the Enterprise deck on DISCOVERY ....Old Fans BITCHED AND MOANED!!!
That said, you guys hate all the new Trek stuff because it's not the old stuff. You've said it over and over and you can't talk you way out of this. So Yeah, I do question your fandom when all you want is the same ole shit. Wanting the same old shit from 50 years ago and NOT allowing a franchise to do new things doesn't make you true a fan either. If you want that go watch TOS.
Hell, even when they showed Pike on the Enterprise deck on DISCOVERY ....Old Fans BITCHED AND MOANED!!!
#148
DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,299
Received 1,811 Likes
on
1,130 Posts
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
Up through Voyager Star Trek has always been about the people. It's been about humanity, even when the characters weren't human.
It wasn't about big, bold special effects. It wasn't about action. It wasn't about being cool. It was about people. Babylon 5 was better than Star Trek at the BIG stuff when it came to the series spanning, galaxy wide plots, but Star Trek always had that kinder, gentler, more human side that made it different from any other Science Fiction show.
Discovery doesn't hit the marks when it comes to the humanity of the series. Not the way a Star Trek show is supposed to.
It wasn't about big, bold special effects. It wasn't about action. It wasn't about being cool. It was about people. Babylon 5 was better than Star Trek at the BIG stuff when it came to the series spanning, galaxy wide plots, but Star Trek always had that kinder, gentler, more human side that made it different from any other Science Fiction show.
Discovery doesn't hit the marks when it comes to the humanity of the series. Not the way a Star Trek show is supposed to.
That bolded part alone tells me you don't know what you're talking about.
DISCOVERY has tons of humanity both in humans and aliens. You guys claim you want humanity in ST but when they give it to you in a character like Burnahm you hate her...you hate her being in touch with her human emotions....you hate her being in touch with Vulcan lack of emotions...You HATE HER. I saw post after post bitching that DISCOVERY was being too emotional/Human.
Last edited by Giantrobo; 07-29-19 at 03:13 PM.
#149
DVD Talk Hero
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
That bolded part alone tells me you don't know what you're talking about.
DISCOVERY has tons of humanity both in humans and aliens. You guys claim you want humanity in ST but when they give it to you in a character like Burnahm you hate her...you hate her being in touch with her human emotions....you hate her being in touch with Vulcan lack of emotions...You HATE HER. I saw post after post bitching DISCOVERY being too emotional/Human.
DISCOVERY has tons of humanity both in humans and aliens. You guys claim you want humanity in ST but when they give it to you in a character like Burnahm you hate her...you hate her being in touch with her human emotions....you hate her being in touch with Vulcan lack of emotions...You HATE HER. I saw post after post bitching DISCOVERY being too emotional/Human.
#150
re: Star Trek: Picard (Paramount+) -- News, rumors, etc.
That said, you guys hate all the new Trek stuff because it's not the old stuff. You've said it over and over and you can't talk you way out of this. So Yeah, I do question your fandom when all you want is the same ole shit. Wanting the same old shit from 50 years ago and NOT allowing a franchise to do new things doesn't make you true a fan either. If you want that go watch TOS.
Another argument could be made that maybe not everything needs to be a franchise with films and television shows coming out so often.
I'm not a die hard fan. I like the original series, love TNG, and think the Star Trek films with Shatner are awesome. Galaxy Quest was great. The Orville is great fun and despite being a parody, plays up the sci-fi angle well.
DS9 could be pretty good at times.
The ST:TNG films, the JJ reboot films, Voyager, and Enterprise are so-so at best.