HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
#126
DVD Talk Legend
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
I find it odd that people would be spending that much on it just because a single episode will no longer be aired on TV.
They didn't already own the DVD, so they were probably only able to catch that specific episode once every few years as it is. I bet if they stopped airing that episode in secret without telling anyone, these viewers wouldn't even notice.
They didn't already own the DVD, so they were probably only able to catch that specific episode once every few years as it is. I bet if they stopped airing that episode in secret without telling anyone, these viewers wouldn't even notice.
#127
DVD Talk God
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
You need to sign up for HBO Now. It has a 7 day free trial.
#129
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
I think MJ probably was a Paedo,but this HBO doc is sketchy as **ck and so is 1 of the accusers. If the line in the sand is people reat Robson's claim as valid then no famous person can ever deny any claim against them ever
#130
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Razorfist the Rageaholic released a "Part 3" rebuttal that masterfully (and hilariously) eviscerates the accusations in the evidence-lacking massive Appeal to Emotion fallacy called "Leaving Neverland"
Links to the previous parts in his defense of Michael Jackson...
Links to the previous parts in his defense of Michael Jackson...
Spoiler:
#132
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Another website defending Michael Jackson: https://www.mjinnocent.com
Excerpts from its main page:
Excerpts from its main page:
Did you know...
- Robson and Safechuck have sworn under oath that Michael Jackson NEVER did anything inappropriate. Robson was questioned in detail during Michael Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005 and repeatedly denied any wrongdoing by Michael Jackson.
- In 2011, Robson quit his role as director of the film Step Up 4 and was rejected for the lead choreography job in the Michael Jackson themed Cirque du Soleil show. It was following this rejection that he suddenly realised he had been abused.
- Previous versions of Robson’s story state that he did not come forward with his claims any sooner because he was ashamed. This was then changed to not coming forward because he had repressed the memories of abuse and the memories only resurfaced following a breakdown. Robson’s current version is that he always knew what had happened but didn’t realise it was wrong, despite also claiming that Michael Jackson told him he had to lie about what they were doing otherwise they would both go to prison and also being questioned in detail about sexual abuse in the 2005 trial.
- Robson’s first course of action was to try and shop a book but when this failed, he launched a creditor’s claim against the Estate of Michael Jackson for millions of dollars.
- These accusations have been made after Michael Jackson passed away. The law does not currently protect the deceased from defamation and, therefore, Robson and Safechuck are free to attack Michael Jackson and make whatever claims they want against him without fear of legal repercussions for defaming him.
- In his lawsuit, Safechuck claims he only realised he was abused after seeing Robson had filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the Michael Jackson Estate. However, in the documentary, Safechuck indicates that he made his mother aware of these allegations as early as 2005 and his mother states that she danced when she heard that Michael Jackson passed away in 2009.
- Safechuck hired the same attorneys as Robson and filed copycat claims against the Michael Jackson Estate.
- Robson and Safechuck are claiming hundreds of millions of dollars in their lawsuits and, as the Michael Jackson Estate pointed out, therefore have hundreds of millions of reasons to lie.
- Robson has been caught lying repeatedly during these lawsuits and has concealed evidence not only from the court, but even from his own lawyers. The judge has even found that "no rational fact-finder could possibly believe Robson’s sworn statement."
- Safechuck has also lied during his lawsuit. He provided dates when the abuse allegedly occurred but these were factually proven false in court. For example, Michael Jackson was not with Safechuck on some of the dates given.
- So far four different lawsuits have failed but they continue to pursue their claims and are appealing the dismissal of their lawsuits.
- Dan Reed, director of 'Leaving Neverland', has admitted several times that he chose not to interview anyone who could have provided a different take on these stories. He did not want anyone to be able to discredit the story he wanted to tell. He also did not do any investigation to determine the veracity of the claims made by Robson and Safechuck nor does he provide any evidence whatsoever other than the word of two admitted perjurers. It is clear that the intention of this film is to present Michael Jackson as a paedophile without reference to any of the mountains of exculpatory evidence, all of which the Michael Jackson Estate has said it would have been happy to share.
- In the “documentary”, Robson suggests that Michael Jackson abused another of his friends, Brett Barnes. Barnes was never provided with an opportunity to participate in this documentary or to comment on the claims made about him. He vehemently denies that he was ever abused by Michael Jackson and to this day maintains that Michael Jackson was one of the best friends he ever had. Brett Barnes’s attorneys have threatened to sue HBO unless they remove all references to Brett Barnes from this documentary.
- Michael Jackson was investigated not only by the police and child protection agencies but was also secretly investigated by the FBI over a period of 10 years. The publicly available FBI report concluded that there was absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing on Michael Jackson’s part. Read the FBI report here.
The above doesn't even scrape the surface of the many inconsistencies, contradictions and outright lies being told about Michael Jackson, all of which are being completely ignored by the media. There is so much more to this story and once the true facts are laid bare, it is clear that the only victim here is Michael Jackson.
- Robson and Safechuck have sworn under oath that Michael Jackson NEVER did anything inappropriate. Robson was questioned in detail during Michael Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005 and repeatedly denied any wrongdoing by Michael Jackson.
- In 2011, Robson quit his role as director of the film Step Up 4 and was rejected for the lead choreography job in the Michael Jackson themed Cirque du Soleil show. It was following this rejection that he suddenly realised he had been abused.
- Previous versions of Robson’s story state that he did not come forward with his claims any sooner because he was ashamed. This was then changed to not coming forward because he had repressed the memories of abuse and the memories only resurfaced following a breakdown. Robson’s current version is that he always knew what had happened but didn’t realise it was wrong, despite also claiming that Michael Jackson told him he had to lie about what they were doing otherwise they would both go to prison and also being questioned in detail about sexual abuse in the 2005 trial.
- Robson’s first course of action was to try and shop a book but when this failed, he launched a creditor’s claim against the Estate of Michael Jackson for millions of dollars.
- These accusations have been made after Michael Jackson passed away. The law does not currently protect the deceased from defamation and, therefore, Robson and Safechuck are free to attack Michael Jackson and make whatever claims they want against him without fear of legal repercussions for defaming him.
- In his lawsuit, Safechuck claims he only realised he was abused after seeing Robson had filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the Michael Jackson Estate. However, in the documentary, Safechuck indicates that he made his mother aware of these allegations as early as 2005 and his mother states that she danced when she heard that Michael Jackson passed away in 2009.
- Safechuck hired the same attorneys as Robson and filed copycat claims against the Michael Jackson Estate.
- Robson and Safechuck are claiming hundreds of millions of dollars in their lawsuits and, as the Michael Jackson Estate pointed out, therefore have hundreds of millions of reasons to lie.
- Robson has been caught lying repeatedly during these lawsuits and has concealed evidence not only from the court, but even from his own lawyers. The judge has even found that "no rational fact-finder could possibly believe Robson’s sworn statement."
- Safechuck has also lied during his lawsuit. He provided dates when the abuse allegedly occurred but these were factually proven false in court. For example, Michael Jackson was not with Safechuck on some of the dates given.
- So far four different lawsuits have failed but they continue to pursue their claims and are appealing the dismissal of their lawsuits.
- Dan Reed, director of 'Leaving Neverland', has admitted several times that he chose not to interview anyone who could have provided a different take on these stories. He did not want anyone to be able to discredit the story he wanted to tell. He also did not do any investigation to determine the veracity of the claims made by Robson and Safechuck nor does he provide any evidence whatsoever other than the word of two admitted perjurers. It is clear that the intention of this film is to present Michael Jackson as a paedophile without reference to any of the mountains of exculpatory evidence, all of which the Michael Jackson Estate has said it would have been happy to share.
- In the “documentary”, Robson suggests that Michael Jackson abused another of his friends, Brett Barnes. Barnes was never provided with an opportunity to participate in this documentary or to comment on the claims made about him. He vehemently denies that he was ever abused by Michael Jackson and to this day maintains that Michael Jackson was one of the best friends he ever had. Brett Barnes’s attorneys have threatened to sue HBO unless they remove all references to Brett Barnes from this documentary.
- Michael Jackson was investigated not only by the police and child protection agencies but was also secretly investigated by the FBI over a period of 10 years. The publicly available FBI report concluded that there was absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing on Michael Jackson’s part. Read the FBI report here.
The above doesn't even scrape the surface of the many inconsistencies, contradictions and outright lies being told about Michael Jackson, all of which are being completely ignored by the media. There is so much more to this story and once the true facts are laid bare, it is clear that the only victim here is Michael Jackson.
#133
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
The more I read about these cases, the shadier Jackson looks. He was low key negotiating back and forth with Jordan Chandler's father. So you're charged with a heinous crime why are you negotiating and eventually settle instead of letting the court clear your name??
Also paid off this kid: https://nypost.com/2004/09/04/jacko-i-paid-off-accuser/
Last edited by Finisher; 03-10-19 at 06:05 PM.
#134
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Well if you can't trust a website named www.mjinnocent.com to be objective, who can you trust? Sure the guys have incentive to lie, but that doesn't mean they're lying. I mean MJ had PLENTY of incentive to lie as well, right? I don't know how anyone could watch this and think MJ was completely appropriate with these kids. It's not like you can argue that he didn't sleep in his bed with young boys who idolized him - that is indisputable. Is it THAT far a stretch to think that the story these two young men are telling might have a strong basis in fact?
#135
DVD Talk Reviewer/Moderator
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Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Hell, lots of 30-year-old men like to only hang out with and sleep in the same bed as 12-year-old boys. Free MJ!!1
#137
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Charles Thomson dropped a fact bomb on Facebook with a recent posting ( www.facebook.com/CharlesThomsonJournalist )
quoting it here:
quoting it here:
**FACT-BOMB: The evidence the media refuses to show you about Michael Jackson’s accusers**
I’ve felt total and utter shame at my industry as the coverage of tonight’s Michael Jackson TV show has grown increasingly dishonest and dangerous. I’ve worked in the media since I was a teenager. The whole media knows these two men are liars. But that’s not good for clicks or ratings.
For five years, these men – both professional actors – have been suing Michael Jackson’s estate for hundreds of millions of dollars. This lawsuit has generated thousands of pages of court records: witness statements, motions, depositions and disclosure. These public documents PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt that the men are lying. The whole media knows about these documents, but is refusing to report on their contents.
I’ve tried not to fill my Facebook feed with posts about this, but you are all being lied to from every direction. So this is my contribution to the debate on Facebook – a list of just some of the public record information the media is refusing to tell you.
*Both men strenuously defended Jackson, including under oath, for decades, and only decided they’d been molested years after his death, when they were both in financial trouble and filed a lawsuit seeking hundreds of millions of dollars. That lawsuit was thrown out of court – twice – but the men are in the middle of an appeal, giving them a gigantic financial motive to lie.
*Since filing their lawsuit, both men have repeatedly changed their stories, frequently telling directly contradictory versions of the same supposed events. For example, Wade Robson has told at least four directly contradictory stories about the first time Jackson supposedly abused him.
*In the lawsuit, Robson was caught lying under oath so brazenly that the judge threw out his entire witness statement and said no rational juror could ever believe his account.
*Between 2012 and 2014, Robson wrote two drafts of an abuse memoir and tried unsuccessfully to sell them to publishers. Meanwhile, he lied under oath and said he’d never discussed his allegations with anyone except his lawyers. When the Jackson estate discovered he’d actually been shopping books, the court ordered him to produce the drafts as evidence. They revealed the story of his abuse had changed significantly from one draft to the next.
*Robson was also ordered to release his emails as evidence. He breached the order repeatedly, first by claiming they didn’t exist, then by simply refusing to hand them over. Then he redacted all the emails between himself and his family members and cited ‘attorney-client’ privilege, even though none of his family are attorneys.
*When he eventually complied with the court order and released the emails, they revealed that at the time he was constructing his lawsuit and abuse memoir, he was researching and emailing himself links to old tabloid newspaper stories about abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.
*The emails showed Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named he and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true’. He then included it in his story anyway.
*Emails also revealed that throughout 2011/12, Robson was lobbying Jackson’s estate for a job directing and choreographing an official Michael Jackson tribute show in Las Vegas. His campaign to secure this role had included sending emails explaining that his amazing friendship with Jackson meant nobody was better qualified for the role than he was, and he was devoted to doing the best job he possibly could ‘for Michael’. After being told someone else had got the job, he suddenly claimed he’d been abused and filed a creditor’s claim against the estate for millions of dollars.
*Months later, according to Jimmy Safechuck, he flipped on the TV and saw Wade Robson being interviewed about his lawsuit. In that moment, Safechuck suddenly remembered that he had been abused by Jackson as well, so decided to join the lawsuit. He didn’t mention that this epiphany coincided exactly with his inheritance circling the drain after a relative died and the surviving siblings started suing each other – including him – for control of the family business.
*Robson was also ordered to produce his diaries as evidence. In them, he’d written about how these allegations might rescue his failing career by making him ‘relatable and relevant’. He also wrote, ‘It’s time for me to get mine.’ When questioned under oath about what he’d meant when he wrote that, he refused to answer.
*Both men tell stories in the TV show which directly contradict stories told under oath in their lawsuit. In fact, they have continued to change their stories as recently as within the last week.
*For example, Jimmy Safechuck claims under oath in the lawsuit that he only remembered Jackson had abused him in 2013 when he turned on the TV and saw Robson. Yet in tonight’s TV show and interviews promoting it, he claims he knew he’d been abused in 2005 and thus, when asked to testify for Jackson’s defence ‘towards the end of the trial’, he refused to do so.
*But that’s a provable lie. Safechuck was never asked to testify for Jackson’s defence. The judge ruled long before the trial began that testimony could only be heard about certain children, and Safechuck was not one of them. All testimony about Safechuck was literally banned from the courtroom. So Jackson’s defence cannot have asked him to testify – and certainly not after the trial was already underway.
*Robson claimed in a BBC interview last week that Jackson had abused him ‘hundreds of times’. Yet his mother’s sworn testimony is that they went to Neverland roughly 14 times but Jackson was almost never there. She estimates the number of times they visited the ranch and he was actually there was four.
*Questioned about their financial motive, the men now say they don’t care about money and are only suing to embolden other abuse victims by holding the Jackson estate accountable. This is a provable lie. The lawsuit was originally filed under seal and Robson tried to extract a settlement from the estate with zero publicity. Only when the estate refused to pay a bean did he go public.
I could continue, but if you’re still on board with the TV show and its accusers at this point, you are irrational to the point of mania.
Tonight’s TV show covers up all of this information, instead presenting two professional actors’ heavily edited and completely unchallenged testimony without ever examining their credibility, their proven lies and perjury, their constantly changing stories or their financial motives.
It is a stain on the journalistic profession, as has been the rest of the media’s coverage.
I’ve felt total and utter shame at my industry as the coverage of tonight’s Michael Jackson TV show has grown increasingly dishonest and dangerous. I’ve worked in the media since I was a teenager. The whole media knows these two men are liars. But that’s not good for clicks or ratings.
For five years, these men – both professional actors – have been suing Michael Jackson’s estate for hundreds of millions of dollars. This lawsuit has generated thousands of pages of court records: witness statements, motions, depositions and disclosure. These public documents PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt that the men are lying. The whole media knows about these documents, but is refusing to report on their contents.
I’ve tried not to fill my Facebook feed with posts about this, but you are all being lied to from every direction. So this is my contribution to the debate on Facebook – a list of just some of the public record information the media is refusing to tell you.
*Both men strenuously defended Jackson, including under oath, for decades, and only decided they’d been molested years after his death, when they were both in financial trouble and filed a lawsuit seeking hundreds of millions of dollars. That lawsuit was thrown out of court – twice – but the men are in the middle of an appeal, giving them a gigantic financial motive to lie.
*Since filing their lawsuit, both men have repeatedly changed their stories, frequently telling directly contradictory versions of the same supposed events. For example, Wade Robson has told at least four directly contradictory stories about the first time Jackson supposedly abused him.
*In the lawsuit, Robson was caught lying under oath so brazenly that the judge threw out his entire witness statement and said no rational juror could ever believe his account.
*Between 2012 and 2014, Robson wrote two drafts of an abuse memoir and tried unsuccessfully to sell them to publishers. Meanwhile, he lied under oath and said he’d never discussed his allegations with anyone except his lawyers. When the Jackson estate discovered he’d actually been shopping books, the court ordered him to produce the drafts as evidence. They revealed the story of his abuse had changed significantly from one draft to the next.
*Robson was also ordered to release his emails as evidence. He breached the order repeatedly, first by claiming they didn’t exist, then by simply refusing to hand them over. Then he redacted all the emails between himself and his family members and cited ‘attorney-client’ privilege, even though none of his family are attorneys.
*When he eventually complied with the court order and released the emails, they revealed that at the time he was constructing his lawsuit and abuse memoir, he was researching and emailing himself links to old tabloid newspaper stories about abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.
*The emails showed Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named he and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true’. He then included it in his story anyway.
*Emails also revealed that throughout 2011/12, Robson was lobbying Jackson’s estate for a job directing and choreographing an official Michael Jackson tribute show in Las Vegas. His campaign to secure this role had included sending emails explaining that his amazing friendship with Jackson meant nobody was better qualified for the role than he was, and he was devoted to doing the best job he possibly could ‘for Michael’. After being told someone else had got the job, he suddenly claimed he’d been abused and filed a creditor’s claim against the estate for millions of dollars.
*Months later, according to Jimmy Safechuck, he flipped on the TV and saw Wade Robson being interviewed about his lawsuit. In that moment, Safechuck suddenly remembered that he had been abused by Jackson as well, so decided to join the lawsuit. He didn’t mention that this epiphany coincided exactly with his inheritance circling the drain after a relative died and the surviving siblings started suing each other – including him – for control of the family business.
*Robson was also ordered to produce his diaries as evidence. In them, he’d written about how these allegations might rescue his failing career by making him ‘relatable and relevant’. He also wrote, ‘It’s time for me to get mine.’ When questioned under oath about what he’d meant when he wrote that, he refused to answer.
*Both men tell stories in the TV show which directly contradict stories told under oath in their lawsuit. In fact, they have continued to change their stories as recently as within the last week.
*For example, Jimmy Safechuck claims under oath in the lawsuit that he only remembered Jackson had abused him in 2013 when he turned on the TV and saw Robson. Yet in tonight’s TV show and interviews promoting it, he claims he knew he’d been abused in 2005 and thus, when asked to testify for Jackson’s defence ‘towards the end of the trial’, he refused to do so.
*But that’s a provable lie. Safechuck was never asked to testify for Jackson’s defence. The judge ruled long before the trial began that testimony could only be heard about certain children, and Safechuck was not one of them. All testimony about Safechuck was literally banned from the courtroom. So Jackson’s defence cannot have asked him to testify – and certainly not after the trial was already underway.
*Robson claimed in a BBC interview last week that Jackson had abused him ‘hundreds of times’. Yet his mother’s sworn testimony is that they went to Neverland roughly 14 times but Jackson was almost never there. She estimates the number of times they visited the ranch and he was actually there was four.
*Questioned about their financial motive, the men now say they don’t care about money and are only suing to embolden other abuse victims by holding the Jackson estate accountable. This is a provable lie. The lawsuit was originally filed under seal and Robson tried to extract a settlement from the estate with zero publicity. Only when the estate refused to pay a bean did he go public.
I could continue, but if you’re still on board with the TV show and its accusers at this point, you are irrational to the point of mania.
Tonight’s TV show covers up all of this information, instead presenting two professional actors’ heavily edited and completely unchallenged testimony without ever examining their credibility, their proven lies and perjury, their constantly changing stories or their financial motives.
It is a stain on the journalistic profession, as has been the rest of the media’s coverage.
Last edited by dhmac; 03-10-19 at 09:58 PM.
#138
DVD Talk God
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Gayle King's interview with some of the Jackson family, which aired prior to the HBO broadcast.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zLhX5ETjs1g" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
It's about 6 1/2 minutes long.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zLhX5ETjs1g" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
It's about 6 1/2 minutes long.
#141
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Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Emails also revealed that throughout 2011/12, Robson was lobbying Jackson’s estate for a job directing and choreographing an official Michael Jackson tribute show in Las Vegas. His campaign to secure this role had included sending emails explaining that his amazing friendship with Jackson meant nobody was better qualified for the role than he was, and he was devoted to doing the best job he possibly could ‘for Michael’. After being told someone else had got the job, he suddenly claimed he’d been abused and filed a creditor’s claim against the estate for millions of dollars.
And the estate says “No.”
And the mistress says, “Ok, I’m going to go public.”
Does that mean she’s a liar? Hell no! Would you not believe her because she asked the estate to score her a small job?
Last edited by Mabuse; 03-11-19 at 01:15 PM.
#142
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Huh?
Whether you think he is telling the truth now but was lying for years when denying anything sexual happened between him and MJ, or think he was telling the truth all those years and is lying now for financial gain, the one thing that is not in doubt whatsoever is Wade Robson is a liar (and, according to his mother, a very convincing liar).
Add in his claim that he didn't know that a grown man being sexually active with a young boy was wrong UNTIL 2012 (the year he turned 30 years old), do you believe he didn't know it was wrong all those years? Or is that another lie? Reportedly, the statute of limitations ran out on Wade Robson being able to sue the MJ estate but there's one out clause to that restriction: if he didn't know what they did was wrong then the statute of limitations restarts when he first learns that it was wrong. So by claiming he didn't know it was wrong until 2012, the statute of limitations for him starts in 2012. Yet again, in my mind, another case of him lying.
BTW, Wade Robson's lawsuit against the MJ estate is for $1.5 billion. Which is probably the same 1.5 billion reasons why Safechuck also signed on to make similar claims against MJ.
Whether you think he is telling the truth now but was lying for years when denying anything sexual happened between him and MJ, or think he was telling the truth all those years and is lying now for financial gain, the one thing that is not in doubt whatsoever is Wade Robson is a liar (and, according to his mother, a very convincing liar).
Add in his claim that he didn't know that a grown man being sexually active with a young boy was wrong UNTIL 2012 (the year he turned 30 years old), do you believe he didn't know it was wrong all those years? Or is that another lie? Reportedly, the statute of limitations ran out on Wade Robson being able to sue the MJ estate but there's one out clause to that restriction: if he didn't know what they did was wrong then the statute of limitations restarts when he first learns that it was wrong. So by claiming he didn't know it was wrong until 2012, the statute of limitations for him starts in 2012. Yet again, in my mind, another case of him lying.
BTW, Wade Robson's lawsuit against the MJ estate is for $1.5 billion. Which is probably the same 1.5 billion reasons why Safechuck also signed on to make similar claims against MJ.
#143
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
I think some people are confusing proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a legal sense vs preponderance of evidence. I don't know if there's enough there and if these two guys are reliable enough that I would find them credible enough to have sent MJ to prison or even to award them a judgement in a civil case. But to poke holes in their overall credibility and then just dismiss their claims as "made up"? That's absurd if you watched the doc. You may not want MJ's music erased from the public, I get that. But you have to be a pretty adamant denier to not believe anything those guys are saying and honestly believe Jackson did NOTHING inappropriate.
#144
DVD Talk Limited Edition
#146
DVD Talk Legend
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Take out Michael Jackson and replace with Crispin Glover, Joey Buttfuoco, or other men with less singing and dancing ability in the same situation and the apologists would fade away quickly.
#147
DVD Talk Legend
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Most of the time he was alive he never seemed to actually date women, and there were never any strong stories of him being a closeted gay man - yet he spends days and days sharing his bed with a bunch of kids and hanging around them often. And after the multiple allegations, some of which he settled with payouts - we're supposed to believe he didn't touch these kids? He was a pedophile - 100% undeniable.
#148
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
The thing is, Michael Jackson always came across as a freak during the Thriller era and before any child-banging allegations came up - so it's hard to believe anyone would trust him with kids.
Most of the time he was alive he never seemed to actually date women, and there were never any strong stories of him being a closeted gay man - yet he spends days and days sharing his bed with a bunch of kids and hanging around them often. And after the multiple allegations, some of which he settled with payouts - we're supposed to believe he didn't touch these kids? He was a pedophile - 100% undeniable.
Most of the time he was alive he never seemed to actually date women, and there were never any strong stories of him being a closeted gay man - yet he spends days and days sharing his bed with a bunch of kids and hanging around them often. And after the multiple allegations, some of which he settled with payouts - we're supposed to believe he didn't touch these kids? He was a pedophile - 100% undeniable.
#149
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Facts are stubborn things.
I suppose I have an empirical evidence based worldview unlike people who have a contructed narrative based worldview and fall for any bullshit story. For example, I called out Jussie Smollett on day one because his story sounded so much like bullshit from the get-go.
I suppose I have an empirical evidence based worldview unlike people who have a contructed narrative based worldview and fall for any bullshit story. For example, I called out Jussie Smollett on day one because his story sounded so much like bullshit from the get-go.
Last edited by dhmac; 03-16-19 at 08:08 AM.
#150
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary Leaving Neverland
Here's a 30-minute long documentary focusing on Wade Robson
When he described himself as a "Master of Deception", it was probably the most truthful thing Wade Robson has said in years. Why anyone believes anything this liar says now is beyond me.
When he described himself as a "Master of Deception", it was probably the most truthful thing Wade Robson has said in years. Why anyone believes anything this liar says now is beyond me.