boogieman03

Agreed. That's the point where it all changed (at least for me).

ben12

My experience as a comic reader has been disappointment. I do like the comic a lot, and I kind of think that Kirkman has a much richer, more interesting story on his hands than even he realizes. Once Negan enters the scene, the story is really about how you get humanity from small tribes fighting for survival back to what we have now. Not just with technological luxuries or technology, but with democracy! The threat of "Negans" showing up and taking over the group is an ever-present threat even today, so trying to build a free society is going to be even harder in the Walking Dead environment. Like I said, I'm not sure Kirkman realizes what he's going, but the comic is still really good. The people behind the show definitely don't know they have anything smart because they keep trying to do artsy fartsy character shit on a show that should be much more plot-driven than character-driven.

Most of my disappointment, though, isn't about that kind of stuff. In my opinion, the Alexandria storyline, starting from when Aaron first finds them through Negan's first appearance, had a lot of exciting moments. Like Red Wedding level stuff that I almost thought were too fucked up and that the producers wouldn't have the balls to show them. Stuff like Carl getting shot, Rick chopping the hand off of his new girlfriend to save Carl, and Negan vs. Glenn. I was pleasantly surprised to see they DID have the balls to do that stuff, but the problem was that the storytelling was awful! Certain moments just didn't have any of the impact they had in the comics. They weren't paced well, the editing was a mess or confusing. These amazing moments are just wasted.

And that all came to a head with Negan. That whole episode was super tense. It was a bit over the top, making Negan into some master planner on Batman's level, but whatever. They're building suspense! Negan shows up and the performance is fantastic! He taunts the characters and finally chooses who's gotta go, but instead of showing that, they make it a cliffhanger! They think this is what's most important about that scene -- who gets killed! They have this brilliant moment and they throw it in the garbage, just like they've been doing throughout the season.

See, I remember reading the issue that was based on, and what stayed with me wasn't "OMG they killed Glenn! You bastard!" Obviously Glenn dying made a big impact, but that wasn't what made me excited to see that on the screen. In the comic they'd just started to discover new communities. The possibility of building a better society was finally being realized. But then this evil dictator shows up and kicks them in the fucking ass. After Glenn's killed, the cast is left there alone, left to realize just how fucked they were. There was no fighting this guy. It was done. And the follow-up appearances of Negan just made that more clear.

But on the show, it's turned into "Who Shot JR?" They could've ended the season on a chilling moment. Negan and his guys leave, and we're left with a dead Glenn (or Abraham too if they really insist on it) on the ground and the other characters just sitting there realize how completely and totally fucked they all are. What a way to end a season! What are they going to do next? How could they possibly survive with this monster in charge? Nope! They want some kind of stupid water cooler talk instead.

And certainly the fake-out with Glenn's dead earlier just took all the steam out of that moment because the audience had already had some practice dealing with the possibility of him dying. They deflated almost everything a moment like that could offer an audience, and I don't think they even realized what a misstep it was! Hell, Kirkman doesn't even seem to realize it! It's completely baffling!

And this latest development is another example because there's good stories coming up from the comics that they now can't do because of this. They threw more good stuff into the garbage for the sake of some sort of dumb surprise.

Anyway... TL;DR It's disappointing because they either totally screwed up the cool moments or they turned them into water cooler bullshit.

smorbie

I agree with all of that. I have been excited as they moved into this phase of the story because I wanted to see the colonies interact and juggle for trade and supremacy. And, yes, to deal with threats like Negan. And I totally think you are right, it would have been more impactful for Negan to kill Glenn and have the season end with the cast on their knees, alone and completely screwed. But, that's beyond Simple, isn't it? He has been on slo mo destruct with this show since the Glenn fake out.

To me whether the shark was jumped when Glenn scooted under the dumpster or called out to Maggie with his head bashed in, is kind of a moot point, because I see those two events as connected. They were part of a big, giant screw you to the TWD fan base. And, the show is reaping what it sowed now. They didn't have to have the dumpster dive. That wasn't canon. There was no reason to do it other than to screw with people. We already knew Glenn's days were numbered; they did the dumpster thing for effect. And, oh, yes, lest we forget. That episode was followed by whisking us away for the interminable cheese-maker episode. So, whether the shark was jumped then or not, the audience had been mocked and treated very disrespectfully, IMO. The reason I chose the latter episode, the cliffhanger, was because that's when the tvs actually began clicking off. I remember people were just incensed, livid because the season ending was handled that way. There were lots of threats of turning the show off. I thought they were kidding. But, that was the beginning of the very rapid decline we've been experiencing since that time.

dex14

Third.

gcribbs

I know for me my Shark jump moment was the dumpster dive episode. I was not happy with how they killed Glenn then got even more upset that they pulled the stunt in the first place when he turned out to be alive.

Of course they had to do it again in the big Negan scene by killing Abraham then of course having that be a big fake and end up killing Glenn any way.

Must have been great for the actor playing Abraham to know his death was only done so they could screw with the audience about Glenn.

sracer

This. (And just because of my sig)

Bill Needle

I remember having a conversation about that at the time, something along the lines of: “No! Not Abra— Whoops, there goes Glenn. How about that? This will be forever remembered as the episode Glenn died.”

TGM

It's amazing. A mere 4-5 seasons ago the prospect of Rick, Carl, Daryl, or Carol dying would've left me gutted... or as gutted as someone could get over TV characters. Now it's like... meh... and not only have they failed to make me connect with any of the new characters, the episode after episode after episode of the original crew MIA or doing stupid things make me not care one iota about any of them.

good short article on the dumpster fire that is now The Walking Dead
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai.../#4784122b0f1a

also, I do not watch The Talking Dead... is there ANY critique of the show or is it just an hour long dick suck? Hardwick cannot like what he sees, so if he is towing the company line and still acting like TWD is the best thing since sliced bread, then fuck that sell out.

Abob Teff

I will disagree with one piece of that ... the initial “death” of Glenn had gut punch impact IMO. It was done in a way that had levity, weight, and credibility. If they had left it at that, I would have been fine. The fakeout was the problem.


Agreed. As recent as last week we were criticizing the show for losing the balls to kill main characters. Now that Gimple is standing in the corner with a big shit-eating grin, we are aghast because he still managed to fuck it up.

VinVega

TD is basically a show love fest and Hardwick hawking items for sale on AMC's website.

Joe Schmoe

A few episodes back, Hardwick poked fun at all the "stormtrooper shooting" that took place on that night's episode of TWD. That's the harshest critique I've ever heard him make about the show. I think Gimple was there when he said it.

d2cheer

That forbes article is spot on.

Bill Needle

Yes it is. If TWD reads one paragraph of that article it should be this one:

Because that would be a death blow to TWD in its current form.

jjcool

I did see your original post on that idea. It makes sense that someone somewhere would be naturally immune from this virus. My fear, if the show went that way, is that they would do it in a way that would come off as a cheap gimmick and another possible jump the shark moment ala dumpstergate with Glenn. If they had someone working on the science on the show previously, like the CDC guy, then maybe it would work. Otherwise I think it would just come across as another cheap fake out from the producers.


Are you a comic reader, by chance? I do think you are on to something.

hdnmickey

Finally got around to watching the Talking Dead that followed this and I think it was very telling that Gimple would never refer to Carl's injury as a walker bite.

smorbie

That keeps playing in my head, too. And he never says carl dies, either. A lot of people would be mad about that. But it would thrill me.

ben12

Part of what makes Hardwick one of the greatest television hosts in history is that he can appear to sincerely believe that this is still an exciting, well-produced show.

windom

If someone was immune to the virus, that would just mean that when they die with their brain fully intact, they wouldn't turn into a zombie.

jpcamb

the bite of a zombie is fatal. If they were immune, the bite would not be fatal.

smorbie

My very favorite thing he ever said was on this year's first TTD. He turned to Jadis and said "People just love Jadis". Then the lightning struck and he just disappeared into flames.

TGM

re: Carl's bite... haven't we seen zombie bites that didn't immediately kill the person turn pretty gross and necrotic on this show before?

when he pulled up his shirt, it looked like ... just a bite that barely broke the skin, and the surrounding tissue looked fine and healthy.

I would be impressed if they got whatshisnames dad to play along and badmouth the showrunner to throw people off the scent that he was still alive and fine.

but then I'd be pissed that he's still alive and fine.

Deftones

it's a no-win situation. if they kill him off, people are pissed they killed him off. and/or how they killed him off. if they don't kill him off, they are pissed they were misled and he wasn't killed off.

hdnmickey

If they didn't plan on killing Carl via a bite, they simply didn't have to make it a cliff hanger. Just have whatever happened happen at the beginning of the episode and reveal at the end that he will be OK. Same effect with no fans being pissed off that they pulled another version of the Glen dumpster stunt.

DthRdrX

I watched a video today on YT that tried to make sense of the situation and suggested Riggs was actually "let go", though actually fired, because of what happened after last season. This is what his father was actually alluding to in his rant.

Chandler went online after last season and posted that his contract was finally up after 7 years, hinted he might do other stuff like college, and then his team went to renegotiate his contract for more money since he had the same deal for so long. AMC, being AMC, told Gimple to write him out.

Abob Teff

... and that is one of the most problematic habits of the show. They keep putting themselves in that position.