Rob V

As a non-book reader, I don't know what I don't know... so to ask why I enjoyed the early seasons is easy -- they were entertaining for what they were. IMO, this season has kept me on the edge of my seat (despite plot holes or poor decisions by Jon and team) because I'm totally oblivious to the tight plot of the books. Much like The Gunslinger series -- you simply can't employ everything in visual media (as The Dark Tower proved).

Osiris3657

So you're telling me that you like these later seasons more despite plot holes the size of craters and stupid decisions by characters (because the showrunners don't have anymore book material to go off of and are inferior writers compared to GRRM), but when the show was at its peak (seasons 1-4) and was almost word for word based on the books, you liked it less and it was just OK?



Perfect opportunity to use one of my favorite gifs

Lastblade

You can clearly see the decline in quality of writing/drama once the show moved past the books.

jfoobar

Clearly, and I would further argue that if the series writing had been of this quality from the start (say the series had been based on original material instead of adapted from a popular book series), it would have been canceled years ago. The audience is emotionally and intellectually invested. That is the bulk of what underpins the show's popularity at this point.

It is to be hoped that the show's producers have heard the disgruntled messages from the fans and will step up the writing quality for next year. They don't even start filming until this October so there is still some time for tweaks.

bluetoast

I wonder if the internet was as widespread in the 80s, would people be arguing this much about, say, Benson, just because they could? Not just arguing, but arguing about arguing.

Timber

To me the earlier seasons felt like a book adaptation. Lots of walking around and not much action (I'm re watching the series and the first battle between the Lanister's and the North wasn't even shown). The later seasons play like a fantasy SyFy show. I wish there was a happy medium somewhere.

outcastja

I think Season 6 is one of the best seasons, which include some of the best episodes of the series like The Door, Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter. I would probably rank it behind 4 and 3. Season 5 ranks the lowest, even though Hardhome is a top 3 episode for me.

Draven

Yes, those record-breaking number of viewers must have the producers panicked.

Also for the record - I'm a book-reader and have read them all multiple times and I still love the show.

fumanstan

You have no issues with a character gone for multiple seasons appearing out of the blue as a deus ex machina to save characters? Don't be a sucker for shitty writing and just buying whatever the show gives you.

I actually don't mean that last part, but it's not complaining just to complain. I'm getting really sick of people on this forum criticizing posters for their opinions.

Pointyskull

(Note: I have not read the books)

I thought this episode was great fun - even WITH the so-called 'rescue logic'. The writers are speeding up the storytelling clearly, and really, really dialing up what will likely become the big elements/elements in the coming series-ending arc.

When I realized what was being pulled up by those big chains (yeah, I don't know where they came from either) I yelled out "Ohfucknoohfuckno" over and over. For me, that's a great moment when a show can deliver something like that.

slop101

Isn't the issue that they're rushing to the ending - doing 2 shorter seasons that should've been 3 or 4 regular seasons - because they couldn't hold on to the majority of the cast?

Osiris3657

That's never been officially stated by anyone involved with the show. Benioff and Weiss just think the shorter seasons are all that was needed to tell the rest of the story (per interviews last year).

The real reason is they are burned out and ready to move on. HBO would have paid any sum necessary to keep the cast and producers together for as long as possible. This is their cash cow.

Bandoman

Well, if you can't see how the writing quality in Benson dropped after the first season, you're an idiot!

DaveyJoe

You ever visit Westeros.org? The people on that forum have been trashing the writing since season 2! Littlefinger's jetpack and absentee Direwolves have been running jokes there for five years. From their perspective, the show didn't start sucking these last two seasons, but back in season two when the producers started making tiny changes. I eventually stopped posting there because you'd get ganged up on if you still supported the show, but they must feel vindicated if show watchers are starting to think the show sucks.

Why So Blu?

I don't. I'm rewatching the rest of the seasons now and over the course of the show that character made various appearances throughout; I was like okay cool, there he is. Then he shows up in a more pivotal episode and reveals what happened to him and what he is doing to cope. If some viewers can't remember certain characters from past seasons then that's their problem. To dismiss it and say he came out of nowhere (when he was never gone) is rubbish. No, I don't care if he saved the day either. "Multiple seasons" is horseshit, because he was on there last season. He even used his fire mace and everything.

Have all the opinions you want but make sure they're informed.

Osiris3657

That level of criticism is too extreme and nitpicky for me. I think the show was almost flawless for 5 seasons and an excellent representation of the books. The foundation started to crack last season and this season, and in particular the last episode, it crumbled.

fumanstan

The criticism of Benjen's appearance in this episode has nothing to do with people not remembering his existence. Are you assuming people already forgot that he showed up last season? That's certainly not the case.

It sounds like you don't fully understand the issues people are bringing up.

DaveyJoe

What did you think about The Battle of the Bastards? That was the least ASOIAF the show has ever felt in my opinion, but it felt like people ignored all of the flaws of that episode because it ended with Jon punching Ramsay. That was when I decided that if I was going to continue to watch the show, I'd have to severely lower my bar, which is why I've mostly enjoyed this season. I had plenty of time to brace myself for the writing issues we'd have with a shorter season.

Why So Blu?

That's what I picked up on -- he was just there last season and some criticisms were that "hey, where did he come from?!" along with "we haven't seen that character since the early seasons." Huh? He was there last season.

Now as far as him saving the day this past weekend -- I don't care if it came off as contrived or whatever -- it was entertaining as hell. Of course they have to fast forward the show -- they're running out of time.

jfoobar

No, he's effectively appeared once, split between two episodes last year. His other post-first season appearances, all two of them, were flashbacks to a young Benjen, which is not effectively the same character. I wouldn't call that "various appearances throughout". Additionally, his "nick of time" presence last season was explained.

Right back at you.

Look, I am fine with undead Benjen showing up again (in fact, he kind of needed to), but timely his appearance was about number 8 in a sequence of 10 or so tightly-packed implausibilities. Even if Bran mentions to Jon next week that he sent Benjen to help him (which seems unlikely considering Jon isn't heading to Winterfell), it doesn't really do much to tidy up this messy writing.

Why So Blu?

His character has been in 7 episodes -- flashbacks/non-flashbacks, and most currently last season's big reveal as to what happened to him.
When that character has been in 7 episodes -- those are various appearances throughout.

fumanstan

If you're referring to what I wrote, I said "gone for multiple seasons appearing out of the blue as a deus ex machina to save characters" in reference to his re-appearance last season to save Bran, not this last episode. I don't think i've seen any posts that completely forgot that he appeared.

Then again, I know your typical retort is to just call everyone who seems to think differently (or more critically) about something then you do mouth breathers

creekdipper

You've read Feast and Dance multiple times???



For quality to drop, it has to be present in the first place.

(Just kidding. I'm sure that Benson is a fine show. Guillaume was great in Soap.)

creekdipper

Personally, I think that losing a favorite character such as Tormund or Bronn heightens the involvement even if it doesn't have quite the impact of losing a Jaime, Jon, Arya, etc.

It would have been fitting for Bronn, the ultimate mercenary, to escape so many close calls in the battle but then be killed sacrificing himself for Jaime.

I wish they'd kept Benjen around a while to help with the final battle against the Night King. He was an interesting character with a lot of potential (I'd swap Benjen for Beric in a heartbeat).

Benjen, we hardly knew ye.

chowderhead

now we know that Ned didn't tell Benjen about Jon's parents. Only the midwife, Howland Reed and Bran know currently.