DJariya

Episode 17 of 23

Eric F

This show is dark and depressing and doesn't fit in at all with the other WB DC shows. I wish they'd just end it and absorb the characters into the other shows.

Seeing Oliver murder a multitude of people every week isn't my idea of a good time.

Koby

Arrow is better than Flash and Supergirl this season, so I'd definitely not like that idea Eric F.
And Arrow S1 & S2 were by far the highlights of the entire Arrowverse for me.

Eric F

I don't disagree with that. Yes the show had its place at one time (I was one of its biggest fans), but it doesn't fit in with the tone of the other shows anymore. It's just depressing. Oliver is a sociopath. Now he admits that he enjoys killing. That's a turn I don't think bodes well for the show. The original plan for 5 seasons is starting to show. I begin to wonder if the writers don't know where to go with it at this point.

The whole "no superpowers" plan has backfired on Arrow. The show that started "DC on TV" has run its course.

Maybe it was just this episode that really did it for me.

stingermck

And I feel the exact opposite. This season has been the best since 2. Great intensity in this ep between Oliver and Chase.

And Arrow V Lundgren was already enough for me.

Jackskeleton

they constantly straddled that line of Oliver carelessly killing people from the get go even though they so gracelessly made that his thing.

I mean, do you think Mad dog or whatever the hell it is that diggle's calling himself only hit non-lethal shots with their bullets? This whole concept from the ground up is called in to question if you think about much like The Flash's GITMO style prison in star labs that they just never really talked about.

Eric F

I don't doubt that. But the whole personal examination of why Oliver is how he is- and that's the whole show in a nutshell, is a bit morose. Too many borrowed elements from Batman, but missing the part of Batman that made him how he is- he wouldn't kill.

The show is becoming The Punisher with a big supporting cast.

Koby

I think one of the reasons that I enjoyed the first two seasons and this season, more than season 3 & 4, aside from the whole Darhk and magic fiasco, was that Ollie was willing to kill. He's not a hero, he's a vigilante who takes things into his own hands and isn't afraid to get some blood on them. The other shows, Flash and Supergirl are about super heros who are too "good" to be willing to kill. So it's a nice contrast, and it gives something different to the foray. I like the darkness of Arrow. It was the wacky parts of Arrow when it tried to be more light and comedy and less grounded, that it felt like the show began to fall apart. I never really understood why someone like Barry would look up to someone like Ollie though. He certainly isn't a rolemodel.

That said, I wouldn't mind if they opted to end the show after Season 6 or something. There are a lot of these comicbook shows on the air already with a lot more being planned right now, and while I have enjoyed the show, I don't want to see it run on and on and on like Supernatural and I don't really see it lasting for the 10 seasons that Smallville did either.

robin2099

The difference is that Batman based his no killing rule on the fact that he watched his parents gunned down in front of him. Oliver is for all intents and purposes a soldier. He did what he had to do to survive and what was needed to survive and killing was a part of that. Big difference.

Agreed. This has been the best season since two since it's somewhat deconstructing Oliver. At his heart, Oliver is a vigilante who takes the law into his own hands and since he shoots arrows killing is a part of it. When they tried to make him more of a superhero the show fell apart somewhat. It was even more ridiculous when Oliver was using trick arrows and Diggle was still shooting people. I also would be ok with it ending around season seven. It doesn't need to go on much longer and I don't think it's doing great in syndication since TNT is airing it at 6 am now.

As for this episode I thought it was pretty intense. The stuff in Russia still kind of confuses me but seeing Dolph back was nice. Looking forward to seeing what they do with him after his "death". I actually like Artemis and am going to be bummed to see her go.

Jackskeleton

I still don't get the moral outrage when two of the heroes on this team use fucking guns as their weapon. Yeah, it was interesting for a minute or two when he did trick arrows, but again, it just was not the same and way more campy than what I originally liked about the show's first two season. That conservative, which Ollie should be, death penalty loving side was exactly what was good.

When they try to skirt the whole repercussions you get shit like the flash with that glossed over Gitmo prison they carefully danced around like a bull in a china shop.

Eric F

How many people are in STAR Labs jail now? Must be well over 10. You'd think they'd need a full time staff for that. Do they ever let them out of their cells? I agree, they need to address this issue at some point. Aside from there and Argus it seems there are no other prisons equipped to host super-criminals in the Arrowverse.

Kdogg

I don't think there is anyone there permanently anymore. They use it more for temporary holding now. After metas were outed Iron Heights was upgraded to handle them.

As for Arrow I think this season has been an improvement over the previous two. The Flash opened the door for more sci-if elements but they don't work on this show.

Eric F

I'm not so sure about that. I recall in a recent episoode of one of the shows someone (maybe Diggle) stating something about sending one of the metas to ARGUS. We have no idea who's in the holding cells at any given time.

Kdogg

I'm just talking about Star Labs. We've established in this tread alone that Arrow has a different morality compass than the Flash.

Jackskeleton

the Gitmo in star labs was conveniently "fixed" with the flash point reshuffle with this new time line that Iron Heights supposedly is where they keep them as they upgraded that. Still, the whole thing is that silly look the other way nonsense.

I did enjoy arrow more when his moral compass made it okay to kill. Instead of foolishly acting like he was just shooting arrows at people and they were dropping on the floor and bowing out of a fight.

Kdogg

No they had it before Flashpoint. It started after the world became aware of metahumans and Cisco started consulting for Central City PD.

Eric F

I'm wondering if ARGUS is still doing research on metas for Suicide Squad type missions? That's been sort of swept under the rug as well.

Jackskeleton

They sort of did, but star lab's gitmo was still the go to place and they did address that they keep bringing big belly burgers to the inmates of star lab gitmo at some time. But after flashpoint they just completely scrubbed a lot of that gitmo under the carpet except when they needed to hold someone quickly.

hdnmickey

Yeah, I've never understood the concern over the killing on this show. It's always been there, even for the other members of the team. People who don't want to kill don't take guns and bows as their weapons to stop others.

If this last episode is how we get the show never going on about the killing again, then that was a fantastic episode. But even without that, I thought it was great. Great way to fold in the flashbacks to align with the current time line. They have failed at that big time in the past. And after initially groaning when Drago was introduced at the big bad Russian, I thought it all went well when it was time to pay it off. If all stunt casting went that well I would stop being concerned about it.

PhantomStranger

This show is good when Oliver has a legitimately threatening villain like Deathstroke or Prometheus. Prometheus has pretty much made this season better by himself.

Hokeyboy

Agreed that this is the best season since 2

But "Team Arrow" is entirely too big and unwieldy. I like the characters -- even Wild Dog grew on me -- but I think the various team dynamics are going to continue to pose an ongoing issue.

Artemis still looks pretty damn adorable.

Xiroteus

Even though Prometheus makes little since (he is rather insane) sense in a few ways he is dangerous without magic.

Artemis is an odd one. She rather follow the guy that kills innocent people vs the guy that kills the bad guys?

PhantomStranger

Artemis' backstory makes a lot more sense in the comics and even the cartoon. She always felt like an afterthought in this season's running storylines.

DJariya

A certain former cast member is coming back to the show full-time in the Fall:

PhantomStranger

That could be interesting...