Thrush

I think your giving Sansa too much credit. Every conversation they had she made it clear that he shouldn't attack now. She clearly wanted Jon to wait for her reinforcements. She just didn't want him to know why he was waiting. If her plan was to swoop in and clean up Jon's mess. She shouldn't have had a problem with the timing of his attack.

bluetoast

Man, now that you mention it, he does.

Baron Of Hell

If that is true that sounds even dumber than her not telling Jon because littlefinger might not show up. I'm not even sure how that makes any logical sense to anybody. Jon MIGHT do something stupid so lets not tell him about the army coming to back him up. So somehow Jon attacking a army singlehanded with three thousands guys at his back is less stupid than Jon attacking a army singlehanded with eight thousands guys at his back. That makes no sense. Not to mention this completely contradicts the conversation where Jon is begging her to give him a reason to do something different.

You know what MIGHT have happen if Sansa told Jon about her army. Rickon might have been kept alive as a hostage because Ramsey wouldn't have a easy victory. The battle might have been delayed long enough for the rest of the world to see proof of white walkers and maybe no one dies and everyone join forces to fight the real enemy. Maybe Littlefinger and Davos could have come up with a winning plan with the extra men. But oh no because Jon MIGHT do something lets just let most of our men die, how very Ramsey of Sansa.

Sorraffy

yeah could have been Umber if the theories about him just playing Ramsay came true but that guy clearly had no loyalties (if I was Sansa I would wipe that house out, siding with the Boltons should be a death sentence)

*also big pile of bodies outside of Winterfell is just what the Night's King likes to see!

stp115

If you mean that Sansa is being super manipulative, well, I agree 100%. She literally wrote her brother off as a lost cause, and didn't even react when she saw that it might not be.

But she knows that Littlefinger wants to please her, even if she has somehow missed why. She knows that he feels bad for selling her out to the Boltons and is pretty desperate to atone for that. I think it reasonable for her to have said in the letter, "be on the field at this date".

She knew that Ramsay would have a trick up his sleeve. She knew that Jon would fall for it because everyone falls for it. Plus, Jon Snow knows nothing. She also knew her brother to know that he had no real issue with a doomed charge, and that a doomed charge would work to lure Ramsay out and into the fray (but not the Frey. Poor Walda). Most of what she was risking were the Wildlings which would be likely to cause problems down the road anyways. I doubt that they will make her quite that calculating, but even if the wildlings don't fight anyone, the land is going to have to come from the Starks or their lesser lords, either of which would cause problems.

From Sansa's point of view, if Jon attacks and somehow wins, she wins. If Jon attacks and starts to lose, Ramsay gets lured in and Sansa can save the day and she wins. If they march there with a superior force, Ramsay can hide in Winterfell and Jon can try to outlast him with a siege. In winter. That's a loss for Sansa who not only wants Winterfell, but revenge.

davidh777

I really liked the episode, and now we know why we didn't see the dragon battle in the last episode. I also really liked the Danaerys-Greyjoy summit.

The battle was pretty obvious in that we knew the Knights of the Vale would swoop in to save the day, but we didn't know when, and we didn't know who would die. But I admit that before that horn sounded, I was wondering if Jon was going to die. I also thought the mounds of bodies and the phalanx (or whatever) scenes were really cool, along with Ramsay's demise.

I was frustrated with Sansa's not telling Jon about Littlefinger but agree that it could've been because she didn't know until he showed up. And who really knows what Littlefinger is thinking. It wouldn't have been a stretch for him to stay out of sight until the battle had started just to make sure he was the ultimate victor.

Sansa: You never listen to me!
Jon: OK, then what should we do?
Sansa: Uh, I got nothin'.

OK, maybe it wasn't quite like that.

Celtic Esquire

How is Sansa supposed to know that Littlefinger is going to actually turn up with the Vale army?

The same Littlefinger that:

1. Betrayed her father,
2. Poisoned Joffrey,
3. Pushed her aunt out of the moon door, and
4. Married her off to a psychopath rapis.

Yeah, that's a guy that I am going to trust to honor his word.

Why So Blu?

Uh, the same Littlefinger that was obsessed with her mother and is now obsessed with her?

bluetoast

Plus, I'm pretty sure Sansa isn't losing any sleep over points 2 and 3. At all.

outcastja

Maybe Sansa thought Jon would be against aligning with Littlefinger, so decided not to disclose the information to him since she knew Jon wouldn't want to make a pact with the devil. Jon tends to act on emotion, he abandoned the whole battle plan cause of Rickon.

CPA-ESQ.

Does anyone think there was some foreshadowing to Sansa being pregnant with Ramsey's baby.. when he said to her "I am a part of you?"

I was debating with a friend who thinks she is pregnant.. but I think it was meant to be taken that she is not innocent anymore, and her blood lust for revenge is a kind of "turned to the dark side"

Any thoughts?

davidh777

We were all thinking about running zigzag. If the director/producers wanted to avoid any kind of comedy associations, maybe they should've picked a different way for Ramsay to kill Rickon, perhaps with the dogs as suggested here earlier.

I'm with you.

Goat3001

Sansa getting knocked up by her rapist would be brutal and incredibly sad. So yeah, she's definitely knocked up with Ramses baby.

mewmartigan

I don't think Sansa told Jon as she wasn't sure Littlefinger would come.

I think that Littlefinger arrived at precisely the "deus ex" moment because he did it on purpose. As someone else said, it doesn't hurt Littlefinger to have the forces decimate each other before he swoops in to save the day. Probably had a lookout watching the battle and waited for the right moment.

Celtic Esquire

It's not the results, but the fact that those actions show Littlefinger to be a devious backstabber.

How'd things turn out for Catelyn Stark?

Littlefinger didn't do a damn thing to help her out and in fact, screwed Catelyn over even more by betraying Ned.

slop101

No, it's been long enough since she left Ramsey that if she were pregnant, she'd know she's pregnant by now.

WCChiCubsFan

That is what I was thinking.

As far as Rickon, once he opened up that much ground between Ramsey and himself he should have turned around and jogged backwards. That way he could have watched Ramsey fire and simply take a few steps to the side to avoid getting hit.

At that distance, using that tactic not even the greatest archer in the world could hit you.

Great all around episode.

mugwump

A whole lot of action and gore but no surprises. Heck, if you omit the admittedly cool cavalry charges it was a pretty goofy battle that made no tactical sense on any level from either side. This episode did start to bring into laser sharp focus GRRM's grrl power endgame however.

Why So Blu?

And now Littlefinger wants that Littleredbush. He's trading up.

Why So Blu?

Agreed. He just said that, because he had taken her virginity.

DVD Josh

I thought there was some thinking he may have used an entrance which would not result in a child.

Why So Blu?

Glad some one mentioned it. He took her anal virginity.

boredsilly

It's still early yet, but I'm annoyed that there isn't a clear price Jon has paid in coming back to life. I was really expecting him to come back different some how, but he just feels like Jon as Jon has always been to me.

ETA: Annoyed isn't the right word, I just think it's weak.

JTH182

I think the scene with Ramsay getting eaten alive should have been much more graphic. I understand not showing the mother and child being ripped apart by the hounds, but I would have liked to see a clear closeup shot of some entrails being pulled out of his gut while screaming. It would have been an even more fitting on-screen end for a universally hated character.

Small gripe overall, but this is Game of Thrones, I expect some gore dammit!

Josh-da-man

Second mention of the wildfire stored under Kings Landing. (This week it was Tyrion telling Dani about it, last week it was Cersei and Qyburn.)

Cersei's going to blow shit up next week.