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OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

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OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Old 06-17-16, 11:19 AM
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OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Part of the ESPN 30 for 30 miniseries.

IMDB

There were already some existing comments in other threads...

Sports Talk 30 for 30 thread

The People v. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story (FX) thread

Three episodes have aired already. Episodes 4 and 5 air Friday and Saturday.

Like many others, I thought I was OJ'd out after watching the original story unfold back in the day and all the coverage it'd received since then (including the recent F/X version). But this really is a good documentary. Where the recent F/X version was basically written and acted well, this is a documentary. It uses real footage, and does real interviews with the real people.

One thing I've noticed is there's little focus on Ron Goldman so far. While obviously the case centers around the OJ/Nicole relationship, it's Fred Goldman (Ron's father) who became the most vocal OJ critic. At the end of episode 3, we haven't really gotten to the point where Fred Goldman became a notable character, so there's room for that going forward. I don't know if he participated or not, but there's plenty of archival footage available.

I've read that Christopher Darden refused to participate. This case had a horrible impact on this man's life. He was a young talented black attorney who looked up to Johnny Cochran at the time and was just vilified. His role in the story is covered with archival footage, though.

I'm glad Marcia Clark decided to participate.

It must be really strange for the Kardashians to see all this coverage of their father and this case in this way.

It must also be really strange for OJ himself. More than once I had the thought, "Hey, this guy is still alive." In fact, the current conversation is his eligibility for parole. All these stories about the case can't help his parole chances (it shouldn't matter, but people are human so it might). There's actual footage of OJ being asked a question in one meeting about his past criminal history (the Nicole case). OJ is seemingly somewhat indignant and barely keeps from responding, "What does that have to do with what I'm in here for?"

What a sad thing that a man who accomplished so much and reached such heights lost it all because his ego wouldn't let him let go and move on. Even if you're amongst those who don't believe OJ killed Nicole, there's little doubt he abused her. I find myself sometimes wondering if he's ever had a moment sitting in jail thinking, "I messed up." Or is he sitting in jail thinking about how he was treated unfairly. Human psychology is fascinating.
Old 06-17-16, 12:05 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I've watched all 3 parts so far. It's been a mesmerizing series.

I didn't know OJ's Dad was gay.
Old 06-18-16, 03:55 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Part 4 was really good.

Things I didn't know (all mentioned in part 4):

-OJ signed autographs in jail

-OJ didn't take his arthritis medicine, which caused his hands to swell and then the gloves didn't fit.

-and I have never seen the bodies from the crime scene photos (well, maybe one or two pics that didn't show much), but I yelled OH FUCK when they showed the pic of Nicole's throat. That was too much to handle for me. Geez.
Old 06-18-16, 06:57 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I didn't follow the whole O.J. spectacle when it happened. The documentary has been really eyeopening. The arthritis meds was a hoot and I could have lived without the crime scene photos but I understand why they were shown.
Old 06-18-16, 09:22 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by MLBFan24 View Post
and I have never seen the bodies from the crime scene photos (well, maybe one or two pics that didn't show much), but I yelled OH FUCK when they showed the pic of Nicole's throat. That was too much to handle for me. Geez.
They didn't show this in the documentary, but I remember it from following the original case... OJ's legal team suggested that it was a Columbian necktie and that the killings were probably drug related. Because not only was it important to say OJ didn't do it and that he was framed by racist cops within the LAPD, but there needed to be some doubt cast in another direction.

I was glad to see Fred Goldman participated. He was a really vocal part of the case when it happened.

Much has been made over the years about Lance Ito's control of the courtroom. Prosecutors felt he allowed the trial to become a circus. I don't think it's that easy. Judge Ito was balancing a lot of factors at the time. Allowing the defense to present a defense based on malfeasance rooted in racist attitudes is something that happened gradually with a carefully laid foundation (by the defense) based on prior facts. The prosecution certainly didn't like those facts, and Fred Goldman thought they were immaterial, but there they were.

Was it possible for a police officer to attempt to frame OJ based on thinking he probably killed Nicole, and the way the officer (supposedly) felt about blacks in general, especially this entitled black guy who was with a white woman (and mistreating her)? The prosecution felt the defense had no proof of that line of thinking and thus it should have been squashed. Judge Ito felt that given the history of the LAPD and various other factors (Fuhrman caught on tape, etc.), there was some limited leeway to present the possibility.

What a terrible visceral moment for the prosecution when the defense asked Mark Fuhrman if he planted evidence and he responded, "I plead the 5th." As much as people aren't supposed to infer anything from that response, it's a difficult response to ignore.
Old 06-18-16, 09:24 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by MikahC View Post

It must be really strange for the Kardashians to see all this coverage of their father and this case in this way.
Please. They're probably keeping a running tally of the number of times his name is mentioned and will send off angry emails if he's mentioned less in part two than part one.
Old 06-18-16, 12:51 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Speaking of OJ and the Kardashians...

O.J. Simpson may take paternity test to see if Khloe Kardashian is his daughter, per reports.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news...u7z2p7ybptu882
Old 06-18-16, 08:30 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I've always found it odd that Darden was vilified for being added to the prosecution team, while Cochran got nothing for being there to play the race card for a defendant who wanted nothing to do with black people since his first carry.
I sorta remember a TV show where James Earl Jones was playing a defense attorney, and the opposing attorney accused him of playing the race card and he said,"of course I'm playing the race card-if you had it you'd play it too!"

Last edited by mike7162; 06-18-16 at 09:17 PM.
Old 06-18-16, 10:09 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by MikahC View Post

What a terrible visceral moment for the prosecution when the defense asked Mark Fuhrman if he planted evidence and he responded, "I plead the 5th." As much as people aren't supposed to infer anything from that response, it's a difficult response to ignore.
Didn't bother me. It was done that way because he couldn't answer one question or he would be forced to answer all of them.
Old 06-19-16, 01:38 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Just finished Part 5. OJ's agent was probably the most informative from this documentary. His conversation with OJ about that night was surreal to hear.
Old 06-19-16, 02:06 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by MikahC;
What a terrible visceral moment for the prosecution when the defense asked Mark Fuhrman if he planted evidence and he responded, "I plead the 5th." As much as people aren't supposed to infer anything from that response, it's a difficult response to ignore.

Originally Posted by whotony View Post
Didn't bother me. It was done that way because he couldn't answer one question or he would be forced to answer all of them.
Mark Fuhrman's interview segment made it clear why he felt he had to do things the way he did them, so I didn't feel the need to recap that. Rather, my statement was about how his decision impacted the jury, many (most?) of whom were likely not learned in the proper way to invoke the right not to self incriminate.

If it wouldn't have affected you as a juryperson, kudos to you, but I maintain that if you ask a detective if he planted evidence and he pleads the 5th, the average juryperson would read negatively into that. OJ's legal team knew that, which is why they were chomping at the bit to ask the question once Fuhrman went down the road of pleading the 5th.
Old 06-25-16, 03:08 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Watched the 1st 2 parts last night and today.

Riveting film. I was glued to it. I liked the opening scene from O.J.'s recent parole hearing and how he got upset when asked about the 1994 arrest. I had to take a break because it was just so comprehensive and overwhelming at times. This film is literally the encyclopedia about O.J. Simpson's life, career and race issues in America.

The part of the film that I found pretty disturbing was O.J.'s obsession with Nicole and his abuse of her. It was pretty creepy learning that she made an attempt to date shortly after their divorce and O.J. stalked her. I was totally not aware that Nicole supposedly had an extramarital relationship with Marcus Allen.

The producer/director of this film did a fantastic job getting all these new interviews together and putting together all the old clips/footage from O.J.'s career and news footage.

I'll finish up the last 3 parts over the next few days,.
Old 06-26-16, 01:56 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Watching part 4 today

Wow, this was probably the most disturbing episode. Some really graphic crime scene photos and very graphic descriptions of the murder.

As shown in the FX series, Chris Darden screwed up the case by allowing Simpson to try on the gloves. And I was glad they got to interview Fuhrman. I enjoyed hearing his side of the story as well.
Old 06-26-16, 08:34 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I liked this, but still liked the FX series better. This was good, that mini-series was great.
Old 06-26-16, 08:58 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Chris Darden was on The View recently. I didn't actually catch the episode, but there are snippets on YouTube. Supposedly OJ confessed to Rosey Grier during the trial, but the prosecution wasn't allowed to use it. But again, that's "supposedly", as it's information that was never presented in court and thus isn't challenged or vetted.

I agree with DJariya... even given the stuff we see sometimes these days, those crime scene photos were a bit jarring. Perhaps it can be attributed to most of what we see being "fantasy". We know it's not real. Not the case here. There was a point where someone mentioned the fact that the kids were upstairs and the bodies were left downstairs where the kids could have stumbled onto them. It's history at this point, but as a father, that touched all kinds of buttons in me (anger being one).

It's amazing to me that during all this, OJ has maintained a relationship with his kids. I can't help but wonder if at some point he said, "Eat your spinach," and they responded, "**** you, you killed mom."
Old 06-27-16, 12:00 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I'm watching this series now. Just finished up part 3 and as someone else said the footage of all of Simpson's various football career and showbiz career is very comprehensive, particularly the wake (not the funeral) that was held for Nicole by various family and friends. Amazing how they got their hands on all of the video in such good quality.
Old 06-27-16, 01:28 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt View Post
I liked this, but still liked the FX series better. This was good, that mini-series was great.
You really can't compare the two as equals.

The FX series was a dramatic recreation of the events in the trial.

This documentary is a step by step chronological re-telling of Simpson's life, career and the rise of fall of it.
Old 06-27-16, 01:36 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I finished part 5 late last night.

Amazing how big OJ's head got after the 1994 trial. He really thought he was untouchable. His arrogance ended up screwing him over. Funny, I guess I just tuned out on everything OJ after he was acquitted, but I didn't realize what a joke he became after that. The whole "If I did it" book was just idiotic and showed how arrogant he was.

I liked how the documentary showed after the trial how he tried to fit back in with the black community after he spent most of his life associating himself with white people.

Glad the whole robbery thing bit him in the ass. I hope the Nevada board denies his parole next year. This guy deserves to rot. No 3rd chances.

Funny also how even his agent has now shunned him and believes he's the killer and got away with murder.

Too bad Johnnie Cochran is now deceased. He would have been an interesting person to hear from.
Old 06-28-16, 04:38 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

I just watched episode 4 and those Crime Scene photos they showed were haunting! I'm amazed that ESPN went all the way with the lack of censorship. I dont think a channel like CNN would of been as ballsy.
Old 06-28-16, 06:28 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
I finished part 5 late last night.

Amazing how big OJ's head got after the 1994 trial. He really thought he was untouchable. His arrogance ended up screwing him over.
Hell, wouldn't you feel untouchable? He is a fucking idiot though. To get away with what he did, but not put his head down after? But that isn't surprising considering his ego even before the events that led to the trial. I do wonder how different the 20 year old OJ was from the 40 year old one, because he really came off sparking during his college football days. If I was a kid back then, he would have been a role model for sure.

When this went down, I was in HS and was definitely in the "they're trying to put another black man down" camp at the time. With time, I changed my tune, but seeing this series really showed how primed LA was ready to explode at the time.

So many things were really hard to watch. Seeing the Rodney King beatings again was horrible, and disheartening that things haven't changed that much. Seeing Reginanld Denny get brutalized simply for being white in the wrong part of town was upsetting. Totally forgot about Latasha Harlins, and that was awful. And like someone mentioned, seeing the crime scene photos (I never saw them) in such graphic detail did my head in.

I never knew about the Marcus Allen stuff. I wonder how he feels having all of this stuff brought up again so long after the fact?

I don't know what other subject would lead to such a fascinating docu-series, but I would love to see more of this type of stuff.
Old 06-28-16, 10:31 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by boredsilly View Post

I don't know what other subject would lead to such a fascinating docu-series, but I would love to see more of this type of stuff.
I'd like to see one featuring the Aaron Hernandez murder conviction (if they haven't done one already, I rarely watch this series).
Old 06-28-16, 10:43 PM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

The next 30 for 30, which airs next month, is actually a pretty interesting topic. It's about Doc Gooden and Darryl Strawberry. They were both superstars back in the 80s on the Mets, but went through drug addiction and eventually landed in jail. I think that should make an interesting film.
Old 06-29-16, 01:31 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Oh, I'm a fan of the 30 for 30s in general. I don't watch them all, but I generally enjoy the ones I see.

But I'm talking about a focused subject that would be worthy of a multi part series the way this OJ one was.
Old 06-29-16, 10:15 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Originally Posted by boredsilly View Post
But I'm talking about a focused subject that would be worthy of a multi part series the way this OJ one was.
No one quite has the story that OJ has. There just aren't that many people who go from that beloved to that much of a pariah. And really a good 3 and half parts of that were about his extended fall from grace.

Who else would merit that kind of in depth story? Ali would be good, but there just isn't much of a denouement. To go beyond two parts would be stretching. Most other people don't really have enough to go more than two hours. There needs to be a revolutionary element to the person. Maybe there is a 3 hour Arthur Ashe or Jim Brown documentary to be made, but they wouldn't merit 10 hours.

From a non-sports POV, there is an extensive documentary to be made about Bill Cosby once the current situation plays out.
Old 06-29-16, 10:59 AM
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Re: OJ: Made In America (ESPN 30 for 30 Miniseries)

Watched Part 4 last night. Man...those crime scene photos. If those were around for the public back during the trial, I'm sure my parents kept my young eyes from seeing them. I'll never understand how someone could do that to another person...hell I don't understand how someone could do that to an animal either. All those defensive wounds Ron had....

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