"Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
Good article hdtv00. I'm not in the, "Steve didn't do it," camp. Nor am I in the, "Steve did it," camp. I simply don't know. But I'm certainly in the camp that thinks that trial was horrible. I've talked privately with my wife about most of what the article covers, but that "scientist" definitely went into details and examples that shine more light on the problematic approach.
#104
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
Thanks for the link. Very disturbing stuff here.
Here's the way I see this, though. I'm not saying I think SA is innocent because I don't think he's capable of the crime; I'm saying I think he's innocent because I don't think there is enough evidence to support that he did the crime & I believe there is definitely proof that the police planted evidence.
For example, why would C. (the officer with short hair & glasses, involved in both cases against SA) call in TH's car's license plate prior to the car being found in the salvage yard?! The only explanation I can come up with here is that the authorities planted the car in the salvage yard to frame SA.
In addition, if SA did the crime, why not destroy the car with his crusher - that he had on his property?! It doesn't make sense that he would leave the intact car on his property, and just try to cover it up with boards and branches. Sure, he doesn't seem to be extremely intelligent - but you would think that he would know better to keep a key piece of evidence in a heinous crime intact on his property. His defense lawyers said that same thing - how many people have access to a crusher like he did?! Very few - and he didn't use this. This makes 0 sense.
Here's the way I see this, though. I'm not saying I think SA is innocent because I don't think he's capable of the crime; I'm saying I think he's innocent because I don't think there is enough evidence to support that he did the crime & I believe there is definitely proof that the police planted evidence.
For example, why would C. (the officer with short hair & glasses, involved in both cases against SA) call in TH's car's license plate prior to the car being found in the salvage yard?! The only explanation I can come up with here is that the authorities planted the car in the salvage yard to frame SA.
In addition, if SA did the crime, why not destroy the car with his crusher - that he had on his property?! It doesn't make sense that he would leave the intact car on his property, and just try to cover it up with boards and branches. Sure, he doesn't seem to be extremely intelligent - but you would think that he would know better to keep a key piece of evidence in a heinous crime intact on his property. His defense lawyers said that same thing - how many people have access to a crusher like he did?! Very few - and he didn't use this. This makes 0 sense.
#105
DVD Talk Hero
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I think most are outraged more at how horrible the trial was than anything.
#106
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
There is most definitely "Reasonable doubt" on Steven Avery.
The initial vote by the Jury was 7 not guilty; 3 guilty; and 2 undecided.
I can see how the not guilty votes may have been swayed by a juror's pointing out something like the above. Given what we have seen there is no way I could have found him guilty if on the jury. Even with all the follow-up stuff I have read I still can't find him guilty. That does not mean innocence either but there is way to much reasonable doubt at this time for me.
Poor Brendan; my girlfriend was in tears over this. If what we see is even close to accurate he got shafted so bad it makes me ill. Maybe something will come of this and it will force the WI State Supreme Court to review. Lots of heat on this and at some point there will be heads that will roll in time. I am sure of it. Just like Katz; that was awesome. Fuck that guy and his team.
The fact that those 2 cops Andrew Holborn and James Lenk were allowed to be in on the investigation is unreal to me and I am shocked it was allowed to happen. I have a friend in Colorado that is a former police officer and he is under the opinion like many that they planted evidence and are dirty. Full disclosure on my friend he was fired from the force so he may have a small grudge.
It will be interesting to see what shakes out when the smoke starts to clear. There is a lot of heat on this and it will only get more intense as more and more watch it.
The initial vote by the Jury was 7 not guilty; 3 guilty; and 2 undecided.
Poor Brendan; my girlfriend was in tears over this. If what we see is even close to accurate he got shafted so bad it makes me ill. Maybe something will come of this and it will force the WI State Supreme Court to review. Lots of heat on this and at some point there will be heads that will roll in time. I am sure of it. Just like Katz; that was awesome. Fuck that guy and his team.
The fact that those 2 cops Andrew Holborn and James Lenk were allowed to be in on the investigation is unreal to me and I am shocked it was allowed to happen. I have a friend in Colorado that is a former police officer and he is under the opinion like many that they planted evidence and are dirty. Full disclosure on my friend he was fired from the force so he may have a small grudge.
It will be interesting to see what shakes out when the smoke starts to clear. There is a lot of heat on this and it will only get more intense as more and more watch it.
#107
DVD Talk Hero
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
Nancy Grace is chiming in on the "He's guilty" train tonight with a special. Then the Discovery/ID special.
Everybody trying to pull numbers from Netflix's obvious successes
Everybody trying to pull numbers from Netflix's obvious successes
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I think the trial of both defendants was a mockery of justice. However if he was framed, this would be an example, like OJ, of framing a guilty man.
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I've always thought that there should be limits on where you can have a jury. What kind of trials I mean.
People are stupid. Period.
And it works for both sides. Both sides are always looking for an advantage in the jury selection.
So, for homicides, were things get really complex, as we saw in this case, you are basically trying to manipulate the jury. Both sides, defense and prosecutors.
So yeah, that should be changed.
People are stupid. Period.
And it works for both sides. Both sides are always looking for an advantage in the jury selection.
So, for homicides, were things get really complex, as we saw in this case, you are basically trying to manipulate the jury. Both sides, defense and prosecutors.
So yeah, that should be changed.
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I've always thought that there should be limits on where you can have a jury. What kind of trials I mean.
People are stupid. Period.
And it works for both sides. Both sides are always looking for an advantage in the jury selection.
So, for homicides, were things get really complex, as we saw in this case, you are basically trying to manipulate the jury. Both sides, defense and prosecutors.
So yeah, that should be changed.
People are stupid. Period.
And it works for both sides. Both sides are always looking for an advantage in the jury selection.
So, for homicides, were things get really complex, as we saw in this case, you are basically trying to manipulate the jury. Both sides, defense and prosecutors.
So yeah, that should be changed.
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I thought of a new name for this show: "Netflix Presents: Get to the Fucking Point Already"
I watched the first two episodes last night. I'm still waiting for them to get to the fucking point. The first episode teased that we might be getting somewhere. Second episode did not fulfill that promise.
Or how about: "Netflix Presents: The Thin Blue Line Stretched Out To 10 Fucking Hours"
I liked it better 30 years ago when Errol Morris did the same thing in 97 minutes.
I watched the first two episodes last night. I'm still waiting for them to get to the fucking point. The first episode teased that we might be getting somewhere. Second episode did not fulfill that promise.
Or how about: "Netflix Presents: The Thin Blue Line Stretched Out To 10 Fucking Hours"
I liked it better 30 years ago when Errol Morris did the same thing in 97 minutes.
Last edited by Mabuse; 01-08-16 at 09:41 PM.
#115
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
Nancy G. is a loud, entitled piece of shit. I don't believe anything that comes out of her lying, conniving big mouth.
Agree with all of the above.
BD's conviction was a heinous miscarriage of justice. It's truly vile that this happened. Anyone with half a brain could see that BD didn't do anything, but was lying in order to please the investigators. There was 0 evidence to support his alleged claims. The jury must have been either scared of retaliation, or they had their collective heads up their collective asses. Agree that the investigators who interviewed/grilled BD & Ken K.'s group are scum, and should all be put on trial themselves for their part in this mockery of justice.
I can see how the not guilty votes may have been swayed by a juror's pointing out something like the above. Given what we have seen there is no way I could have found him guilty if on the jury. Even with all the follow-up stuff I have read I still can't find him guilty. That does not mean innocence either but there is way to much reasonable doubt at this time for me.
Poor Brendan; my girlfriend was in tears over this. If what we see is even close to accurate he got shafted so bad it makes me ill. Maybe something will come of this and it will force the WI State Supreme Court to review. Lots of heat on this and at some point there will be heads that will roll in time. I am sure of it. Just like Katz; that was awesome. Fuck that guy and his team.
Poor Brendan; my girlfriend was in tears over this. If what we see is even close to accurate he got shafted so bad it makes me ill. Maybe something will come of this and it will force the WI State Supreme Court to review. Lots of heat on this and at some point there will be heads that will roll in time. I am sure of it. Just like Katz; that was awesome. Fuck that guy and his team.
BD's conviction was a heinous miscarriage of justice. It's truly vile that this happened. Anyone with half a brain could see that BD didn't do anything, but was lying in order to please the investigators. There was 0 evidence to support his alleged claims. The jury must have been either scared of retaliation, or they had their collective heads up their collective asses. Agree that the investigators who interviewed/grilled BD & Ken K.'s group are scum, and should all be put on trial themselves for their part in this mockery of justice.
#116
DVD Talk Special Edition
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
Just watched episode 3.
Christ that press conference was painful. Was the kid 16 years old? you would've thought they would mention it every now and again!
Also watching those interview tapes was just terrible. The part when he was talking to his mother and he was saying they told him to say stuff. You could almost imagine the cops watching a monitor outside and saying "this is when we need to get back in there".
Christ that press conference was painful. Was the kid 16 years old? you would've thought they would mention it every now and again!
Also watching those interview tapes was just terrible. The part when he was talking to his mother and he was saying they told him to say stuff. You could almost imagine the cops watching a monitor outside and saying "this is when we need to get back in there".
#118
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
#119
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I remember the Ryan Ferguson case which Zellner worked on. A documentary on that case was made and went through festival rounds last year.
#120
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
Mrs. Quack and I just finished binging this over the last 20 hours. We're spent.
We both believe there was nowhere enough evidence to convict either SA or DM. It's insane to think how all of this went down the way it did. I couldn't stand how much the M County sheriff's department, etc were involved after we were told by Kratz, they wouldn't be allowed to be. I mean wtf?
I was very much suspicious of the brother and ex-boyfriend, just from that one little snippet when the reporters were interviewing them around the time her car was found. Just stuck out as a little suspect.
Will post more once my head empties a little bit.
We both believe there was nowhere enough evidence to convict either SA or DM. It's insane to think how all of this went down the way it did. I couldn't stand how much the M County sheriff's department, etc were involved after we were told by Kratz, they wouldn't be allowed to be. I mean wtf?
I was very much suspicious of the brother and ex-boyfriend, just from that one little snippet when the reporters were interviewing them around the time her car was found. Just stuck out as a little suspect.
Will post more once my head empties a little bit.
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
In looking into the issue of evidence not presented in the series it was only through this thread that I came across the "Brendan's bleached stained jeans on or about Halloween" bit.
Even with bleaching the floor I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be SOME blood spatter on all that junk in either the garage or bedroom.
Fascinating series - and even with a filmmaker bias it still comes off as a couple of monumentally fucked up trials/convictions. Apparently the concept of reasonable doubt is unknown up there.
The West Memphis 3 parallels are chilling.
Even with bleaching the floor I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be SOME blood spatter on all that junk in either the garage or bedroom.
Fascinating series - and even with a filmmaker bias it still comes off as a couple of monumentally fucked up trials/convictions. Apparently the concept of reasonable doubt is unknown up there.
The West Memphis 3 parallels are chilling.
#122
DVD Talk Legend
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I actually saw her speak last year. She is a total badass. He's in good hands there.
#123
DVD Talk Legend
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
BD's conviction was a heinous miscarriage of justice. It's truly vile that this happened. Anyone with half a brain could see that BD didn't do anything, but was lying in order to please the investigators. There was 0 evidence to support his alleged claims. The jury must have been either scared of retaliation, or they had their collective heads up their collective asses. Agree that the investigators who interviewed/grilled BD & Ken K.'s group are scum, and should all be put on trial themselves for their part in this mockery of justice.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ej65jscjwg...Kelly.pdf?dl=0
It not only shows exactly what Brandon said about the murder during his confession but also says that he confessed to seeing her shot in the garage. That is what led them to finding the bullet with Teresa's DNA on it. Further, that led to the bullet being linked to Avery's gun.
#124
re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
You may be interested in reading this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ej65jscjwg...Kelly.pdf?dl=0
It not only shows exactly what Brandon said about the murder during his confession but also says that he confessed to seeing her shot in the garage. That is what led them to finding the bullet with Teresa's DNA on it. Further, that led to the bullet being linked to Avery's gun.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ej65jscjwg...Kelly.pdf?dl=0
It not only shows exactly what Brandon said about the murder during his confession but also says that he confessed to seeing her shot in the garage. That is what led them to finding the bullet with Teresa's DNA on it. Further, that led to the bullet being linked to Avery's gun.
I have scoured the internet and have been reading everything I can find on it. I have read several arguments that are convincing towards guilt as well for both. I keep coming back to "where is the blood"? None. It is not possible for there not to be any. Still there is reasonable doubt for me in everything I have read even that.
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re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
I used to lament that the incredible documentary Shoah with its burdensome running time over 10 hours kept people away from a truly amazing experience of both cinema and history. But when I see that people can watch 10 hours on a subject that could have been handled in a 1 hour Dateline NBC episode I rejoice. Knowing that millions of viewers would invest so much time in this small true crime story, then surely Shoah, a film with a subject worthy of its length, is more likely than ever to find viewers ready to embrace an extremely long form doc.