Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > TV Talk
Reload this Page >

Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

TV Talk Talk about Shows on TV

Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Old 08-11-16, 06:25 PM
  #451  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,959
Likes: 0
Received 32 Likes on 28 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

I wonder if they are ever going to go forward in time again. Events after the last movie. (This could be great, no issues in watching it)
Old 08-11-16, 07:07 PM
  #452  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 18,242
Received 1,387 Likes on 1,018 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

The novels are covering a lot of post Nemesis ground. It's pretty muc accepted that they're what happens.

If they ever do go to that era, I can see them doing a major time jump to avoid what was covered in the books.
Old 08-11-16, 08:43 PM
  #453  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 43,743
Received 2,677 Likes on 1,847 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by milo bloom
The novels are covering a lot of post Nemesis ground. It's pretty muc accepted that they're what happens.

If they ever do go to that era, I can see them doing a major time jump to avoid what was covered in the books.
I don't follow the novels, but TNG/DS9/VOY are pretty much dead as tv and film franchises, so as long as the novels are internally consistent they can pass for canon.

Speaking of canon, IDW did a comic series that set up the 2009 movie that featured Picard, Data, Worf, and Geordie. I'd be curious to know if everything in that matches up with the novels.
Old 08-11-16, 09:21 PM
  #454  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Shannon Nutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 18,352
Received 323 Likes on 241 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Sounds like Fuller's TREK is going to be a combination of pandering to political correctness and fanboy/girl wants. Absolutely the worst way to design a series. Of course considering CBS has recently been taken to task for how "white" its prime time lineup is, they can now point to Star Trek and say "Look, diversity! But you have to pay to see it!"
Old 08-12-16, 08:30 AM
  #455  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 18,242
Received 1,387 Likes on 1,018 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Acknowledging that the world is actually made up of females, not to mention people of color of all genders is not pandering, it's called holding a mirror up to society. You know, what science fiction is best known for.
Old 08-12-16, 08:46 AM
  #456  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Sounds like Fuller's TREK is going to be a combination of pandering to political correctness and fanboy/girl wants. Absolutely the worst way to design a series. Of course considering CBS has recently been taken to task for how "white" its prime time lineup is, they can now point to Star Trek and say "Look, diversity! But you have to pay to see it!"
Yea, because being a more accurate reflection of society is "pandering" when we have already had a black captain and a female captain, as well as at the very least bisexuality with Kira in the Mirror Universe and that episode with Jadzia. But no, showing progress isn't a part of science fiction....
Old 08-12-16, 09:25 AM
  #457  
HN
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,469
Received 64 Likes on 39 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by milo bloom
Acknowledging that the world is actually made up of females, not to mention people of color of all genders is not pandering, it's called holding a mirror up to society. You know, what science fiction is best known for.
I actually wrote a paper in college on star trek's diversity. society is just playing catch up to the vision ST laid out.
Old 08-12-16, 10:18 AM
  #458  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 18,280
Received 368 Likes on 262 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Sounds like Fuller's TREK is going to be a combination of pandering to political correctness and fanboy/girl wants. Absolutely the worst way to design a series. Of course considering CBS has recently been taken to task for how "white" its prime time lineup is, they can now point to Star Trek and say "Look, diversity! But you have to pay to see it!"
Not sure if serious, but if you are I hope you enjoy your first Star Trek experience.
Old 08-12-16, 11:39 AM
  #459  
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere in the boonies, MA
Posts: 10,147
Received 376 Likes on 295 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
Not sure if serious, but if you are I hope you enjoy your first Star Trek experience.
LOL. Star Trek has always broken new ground. TOS even addressed Vietnam from the future's standpoint.
Old 08-12-16, 11:52 AM
  #460  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by bunkaroo
No problem with a female lead who isn't captain but it does feel like they should rename this Star Trek: Bandwagon.
You're right. By waiting this long to introduce gay characters, Star Trek is playing catch-up. This is something they should've done thirty years ago, but when David Gerrold submitted a script involving a gay couple on the Enterprise-D, the producers chickened out, and they kept chickening out throughout the run of TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. Waiting this long to address the subject is one of the biggest disgraces in Star Trek's long history.

But that's no reason not to make things right, finally.

As far as having an openly gay character, I don't understand how this fits in to the story they want to tell. It seems like any onscreen dialogue or action to illustrate someone is gay will seem painfully deliberate. Will the character be caught in a compromising position with a same sex crew member? Seen checking out the ass of a same sex crew member? Hell even just showing a "family" picture with a same sex couple seems a little heavy handed. Maybe they'll find a tasteful way to do it that makes sense within the story.
Do you feel the same way establishing characters as heterosexual? When Kirk came onto female crewmembers, did you say, "God, what heavy handed development. Couldn't they find a subtler way of showing he's straight"? When Captain Sisko started dating Cassidy Yates, did you think, "Geez, they're stuffing his heterosexuality down our throats here"? When the first episode of TNG took time out to establish that Riker and Troi were former lovers, did you complain, "Couldn't they've found a way to do this that makes sense within the story"?
Old 08-12-16, 11:52 AM
  #461  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,126
Received 1,748 Likes on 1,093 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by milo bloom
Acknowledging that the world is actually made up of females, not to mention people of color of all genders is not pandering, it's called holding a mirror up to society. You know, what science fiction is best known for.
The fact that people are bitching about this in a Start Trek thread is hilarious. Gene Rodenberry was very progressive in this area. IF he were still alive I'm sure he'd be supportive of these choices.


But I guess Gays, Women, People of Color in roles other than background props are threatening to these sensitive types.
Old 08-12-16, 10:07 PM
  #462  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 43,743
Received 2,677 Likes on 1,847 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
The fact that people are bitching about this in a Start Trek thread is hilarious. Gene Rodenberry was very progressive in this area. IF he were still alive I'm sure he'd be supportive of these choices.


But I guess Gays, Women, People of Color in roles other than background props are threatening to these sensitive types.
Look out! the Social Injustice Warriors are coming after Star Trek.

Keep Star Trek straight, white, and male!
Old 08-12-16, 10:30 PM
  #463  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,959
Likes: 0
Received 32 Likes on 28 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by milo bloom
The novels are covering a lot of post Nemesis ground. It's pretty muc accepted that they're what happens.

If they ever do go to that era, I can see them doing a major time jump to avoid what was covered in the books.
Time jump would work. Just want something where they do not have to worry about keeping the past and future inline.
Old 08-12-16, 10:49 PM
  #464  
DVD Talk Legend
 
B5Erik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,537
Received 457 Likes on 335 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Look out! the Social Injustice Warriors are coming after Star Trek.

Keep Star Trek straight, white, and male!
It's not that so much as, "Keep straight, white, males in the show as something other than bad guys or unimportant roles."

Star Trek had a rule for the longest time and they rarely strayed from it - white men COULD NOT be cast as Admirals. That bothered me a little. It's one thing to say you want to make sure your inclusive by making sure to have women, eithnic minorities, etc, cast as Admirals, but to be exclusive - to discriminate against one group simply because their ancestors had it better than everyone else isn't cool.

We entered a time not too long ago where it's not only OK to openly discriminate against straight white men (and no one else), but where that kind of thing is encouraged by many. That's not equality.

Personally, I don't care. I loved Sisko. I loved Janeway (hated the show, but loved her and the other characters). I'm sure this will be a good show with good characters. And I love women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. They're all good in my book.

I just think it's unfortunate that we have entered a time where discrimination is accepted, and often encouraged, as long as those being discriminated against are straight white men. Discrimination in the name of inclusion is still discrimination. People shouldn't be treated as the source of all society's ills just because of preferential treatment that (some, but nowhere near all of) their great grandparents had.
Old 08-12-16, 11:02 PM
  #465  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 43,743
Received 2,677 Likes on 1,847 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by B5Erik
Star Trek had a rule for the longest time and they rarely strayed from it - white men COULD NOT be cast as Admirals. That bothered me a little. It's one thing to say you want to make sure your inclusive by making sure to have women, eithnic minorities, etc, cast as Admirals, but to be exclusive - to discriminate against one group simply because their ancestors had it better than everyone else isn't cool
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/S..._flag_officers

The majority of the admirals pictured in the above wiki entry are white men, even discounting the future Riker and the fake one.
Old 08-13-16, 12:17 AM
  #466  
DVD Talk Legend
 
B5Erik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,537
Received 457 Likes on 335 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/S..._flag_officers

The majority of the admirals pictured in the above wiki entry are white men, even discounting the future Riker and the fake one.
You didn't watch TNG and DS9 then. Most of the Admirals were Women or minorities.
Old 08-13-16, 09:48 AM
  #467  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 43,743
Received 2,677 Likes on 1,847 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by B5Erik
You didn't watch TNG and DS9 then. Most of the Admirals were Women or minorities.
I clicked on all of the Admirals on the wiki, and they are overwhelmingly caucasian and male. I didn't do a running count for each series, but there were quite a few white male Admirals in the TNG-era, unless Terry O'Quinn, Anthony Zerbe, and the recently deceased Barry Jenner were hiding something.
Old 08-13-16, 10:22 AM
  #468  
DVD Talk Legend
 
B5Erik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,537
Received 457 Likes on 335 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I clicked on all of the Admirals on the wiki, and they are overwhelmingly caucasian and male. I didn't do a running count for each series, but there were quite a few white male Admirals in the TNG-era, unless Terry O'Quinn, Anthony Zerbe, and the recently deceased Barry Jenner were hiding something.
The wiki is WAY incomplete. Most of the Admirals on TNG and DS9 were women or minorities.

The rule was in place as early as Star Trek III (with Robert Hooks as Admiral Morrow - great actor with tons of gravitas). Then you had Brock Peters (another great actor with gravitas) as Admiral Cartwright in IV and VI. Harve Bennett made an exception to play an Admiral himself in Star Trek V, but even then he explained he only went along with it because he was Jewish, thus a minority. And even then the character is listed on IMDB as a Chief of Staff, not a true Admiral. Now that I think about it, it was an interview of Bennett where the rule was discussed (thus his comment about making that exception).

Rick Berman and company made other exceptions, so I don't know how hard they tried to follow that rule, but a majority of their admirals were women or minorities, so they must have at least kept it in mind.

The point being - rules (even rules you make exceptions for) against casting a particular ethnic group or gender (or combination thereof) is unacceptable on any level.
Old 08-13-16, 10:41 AM
  #469  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Shannon Nutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 18,352
Received 323 Likes on 241 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Sorry guys, when you go into a show with a checklist of "needs" - Female lead, gay character, black character, etc. It's pandering. Characters should be created first with no emphasis on their race, gender or sexual orientation, then actors should be hired by the same standard (no attention to race, gender or sexual orientation). The cart shouldn't come before the horse.
Old 08-13-16, 10:47 AM
  #470  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 18,280
Received 368 Likes on 262 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Sorry guys, when you go into a show with a checklist of "needs" - Female lead, gay character, black character, etc. It's pandering. Characters should be created first with no emphasis on their race, gender or sexual orientation, then actors should be hired by the same standard (no attention to race, gender or sexual orientation). The cart shouldn't come before the horse.
Do do you think Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, and and Chekov were created as characters first, or as "The Scottish one, the Asian one, the black woman and the Russian one?"

Because you're fooling yourself if you think it was the former.

Sometimes characters form the stories, and sometimes the stories for, the characters. For serial fiction, it's usually the characters that drive things. Aren't you a writer, Shannon? This is all screenwriting 101 stuff.

Last edited by majorjoe23; 08-13-16 at 10:56 AM.
Old 08-13-16, 10:58 AM
  #471  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 18,242
Received 1,387 Likes on 1,018 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

I have never heard of the admiral rule in all my years of being a Trekkie but if there was a memo that essentially said "since we're showing an enlightened future without racism and bigotry then we should make it a point to cast women and people of color as much as possible " then I wouldn't have a problem with that. The percentage of white people on tv is plain and simple not representative of the true makeup of humanity - using a show lie Star Trek to push that reality is the best use of tv I can think of.
Old 08-13-16, 11:06 AM
  #472  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Shannon Nutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 18,352
Received 323 Likes on 241 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
Do do you think Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, and and Chekov were created as characters first, or as "The Scottish one, the Asian one, the black woman and the Russian one?"

Because you're fooling yourself if you think it was the former.

Sometimes characters form the stories, and sometimes the stories for, the characters. For serial fiction, it's usually the characters that drive things. Aren't you a writer, Shannon? This is all screenwriting 101 stuff.
James Doohan decided Scotty would be Scottish. Chekov was originally written as an answer to The Monkees (to get teenage girls watching the show)...the Russian part came later. I can't speak for Uhura and Sulu, but I do know by the time TNG came around that Geordi was NOT written for a black man.

The point I'm trying to make is if you REALLY want your show to be about diversity, don't pander to your audience by checking off a list of minorities and sexual orientations you're going to feature. The goal of a new Star Trek series shouldn't be about the race or sexual orientation of a character - there should be bigger ideas in mind. The characters in the Star Trek universe wouldn't give two hoots about the race/gender/sexuality of someone - so making it the focus of casting/characterization is a mistake.

Last edited by Shannon Nutt; 08-13-16 at 11:13 AM.
Old 08-13-16, 11:15 AM
  #473  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Shannon Nutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 18,352
Received 323 Likes on 241 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
Sometimes characters form the stories, and sometimes the stories for, the characters. For serial fiction, it's usually the characters that drive things. Aren't you a writer, Shannon? This is all screenwriting 101 stuff.
Yes, this is my point (see my above post). The race/sex/orientation of a character should be incidental to that character and the way he/she is written. Just hire the best actor for the character as internally written.
Old 08-13-16, 11:31 AM
  #474  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by B5Erik
The wiki is WAY incomplete.
Dude, the list includes unnamed admirals who appear in the background of crowd scenes, sorted by rank. This is a list compiled by obsessive fans who freeze-frame scenes so they can figure out what rank insignia somebody's wearing.

If you think it's "WAY incomplete," maybe you can name five admirals who aren't included.

Most of the Admirals on TNG and DS9 were women or minorities.
I've seen every episode of TNG, DS9 and even Voyager, and that is absolutely not true. In fact, the two most significant admirals on DS9, Leyton and Ross, were white dudes.

But even supposing such a rule exists -- so what? Star Trek isn't about an American future. It's about the future of all humanity. And white dudes make up only a small portion of humanity. If Star Trek were being realistic, white men would account for less than an eighth of the human characters. The vast majority would be Asians of some kind, followed by Africans and people of African descent.

The rule was in place as early as Star Trek III (with Robert Hooks as Admiral Morrow - great actor with tons of gravitas). Then you had Brock Peters (another great actor with gravitas) as Admiral Cartwright in IV and VI. Harve Bennett made an exception to play an Admiral himself in Star Trek V, but even then he explained he only went along with it because he was Jewish, thus a minority. And even then the character is listed on IMDB as a Chief of Staff, not a true Admiral.
Chief-of-Staff is a job title, not a rank. And Chief-of-Staff for Starfleet Command would absolutely go to an admiral, as you can tell by the rank insignia on his uniform.

The point being - rules (even rules you make exceptions for) against casting a particular ethnic group or gender (or combination thereof) is unacceptable on any level.
So when the recent remake of Roots only cast black actors in lead roles, that was unacceptable?
Old 08-13-16, 11:38 AM
  #475  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Yes, this is my point (see my above post). The race/sex/orientation of a character should be incidental to that character and the way he/she is written. Just hire the best actor for the character as internally written.
You're writing a mystery. At one point the detective has to break into a mansion in a super-ritzy neighborhood. Do you think race would be "incidental" to the scene?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.