Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
#451
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
I wonder if they are ever going to go forward in time again. Events after the last movie. (This could be great, no issues in watching it)
#452
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
The novels are covering a lot of post Nemesis ground. It's pretty muc accepted that they're what happens.
If they ever do go to that era, I can see them doing a major time jump to avoid what was covered in the books.
If they ever do go to that era, I can see them doing a major time jump to avoid what was covered in the books.
#453
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Speaking of canon, IDW did a comic series that set up the 2009 movie that featured Picard, Data, Worf, and Geordie. I'd be curious to know if everything in that matches up with the novels.
#454
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Sounds like Fuller's TREK is going to be a combination of pandering to political correctness and fanboy/girl wants. Absolutely the worst way to design a series. Of course considering CBS has recently been taken to task for how "white" its prime time lineup is, they can now point to Star Trek and say "Look, diversity! But you have to pay to see it!"
#455
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Acknowledging that the world is actually made up of females, not to mention people of color of all genders is not pandering, it's called holding a mirror up to society. You know, what science fiction is best known for.
#456
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Sounds like Fuller's TREK is going to be a combination of pandering to political correctness and fanboy/girl wants. Absolutely the worst way to design a series. Of course considering CBS has recently been taken to task for how "white" its prime time lineup is, they can now point to Star Trek and say "Look, diversity! But you have to pay to see it!"
#457
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
I actually wrote a paper in college on star trek's diversity. society is just playing catch up to the vision ST laid out.
#458
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 18,280
Received 368 Likes
on
262 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Sounds like Fuller's TREK is going to be a combination of pandering to political correctness and fanboy/girl wants. Absolutely the worst way to design a series. Of course considering CBS has recently been taken to task for how "white" its prime time lineup is, they can now point to Star Trek and say "Look, diversity! But you have to pay to see it!"
#459
Banned
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
#460
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
But that's no reason not to make things right, finally.
As far as having an openly gay character, I don't understand how this fits in to the story they want to tell. It seems like any onscreen dialogue or action to illustrate someone is gay will seem painfully deliberate. Will the character be caught in a compromising position with a same sex crew member? Seen checking out the ass of a same sex crew member? Hell even just showing a "family" picture with a same sex couple seems a little heavy handed. Maybe they'll find a tasteful way to do it that makes sense within the story.
#461
DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,126
Received 1,748 Likes
on
1,093 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
But I guess Gays, Women, People of Color in roles other than background props are threatening to these sensitive types.
#462
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
The fact that people are bitching about this in a Start Trek thread is hilarious. Gene Rodenberry was very progressive in this area. IF he were still alive I'm sure he'd be supportive of these choices.
But I guess Gays, Women, People of Color in roles other than background props are threatening to these sensitive types.
But I guess Gays, Women, People of Color in roles other than background props are threatening to these sensitive types.
Keep Star Trek straight, white, and male!
#463
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Time jump would work. Just want something where they do not have to worry about keeping the past and future inline.
#464
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Star Trek had a rule for the longest time and they rarely strayed from it - white men COULD NOT be cast as Admirals. That bothered me a little. It's one thing to say you want to make sure your inclusive by making sure to have women, eithnic minorities, etc, cast as Admirals, but to be exclusive - to discriminate against one group simply because their ancestors had it better than everyone else isn't cool.
We entered a time not too long ago where it's not only OK to openly discriminate against straight white men (and no one else), but where that kind of thing is encouraged by many. That's not equality.
Personally, I don't care. I loved Sisko. I loved Janeway (hated the show, but loved her and the other characters). I'm sure this will be a good show with good characters. And I love women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. They're all good in my book.
I just think it's unfortunate that we have entered a time where discrimination is accepted, and often encouraged, as long as those being discriminated against are straight white men. Discrimination in the name of inclusion is still discrimination. People shouldn't be treated as the source of all society's ills just because of preferential treatment that (some, but nowhere near all of) their great grandparents had.
#465
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Star Trek had a rule for the longest time and they rarely strayed from it - white men COULD NOT be cast as Admirals. That bothered me a little. It's one thing to say you want to make sure your inclusive by making sure to have women, eithnic minorities, etc, cast as Admirals, but to be exclusive - to discriminate against one group simply because their ancestors had it better than everyone else isn't cool
The majority of the admirals pictured in the above wiki entry are white men, even discounting the future Riker and the fake one.
#466
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/S..._flag_officers
The majority of the admirals pictured in the above wiki entry are white men, even discounting the future Riker and the fake one.
The majority of the admirals pictured in the above wiki entry are white men, even discounting the future Riker and the fake one.
#467
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
I clicked on all of the Admirals on the wiki, and they are overwhelmingly caucasian and male. I didn't do a running count for each series, but there were quite a few white male Admirals in the TNG-era, unless Terry O'Quinn, Anthony Zerbe, and the recently deceased Barry Jenner were hiding something.
#468
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
I clicked on all of the Admirals on the wiki, and they are overwhelmingly caucasian and male. I didn't do a running count for each series, but there were quite a few white male Admirals in the TNG-era, unless Terry O'Quinn, Anthony Zerbe, and the recently deceased Barry Jenner were hiding something.
The rule was in place as early as Star Trek III (with Robert Hooks as Admiral Morrow - great actor with tons of gravitas). Then you had Brock Peters (another great actor with gravitas) as Admiral Cartwright in IV and VI. Harve Bennett made an exception to play an Admiral himself in Star Trek V, but even then he explained he only went along with it because he was Jewish, thus a minority. And even then the character is listed on IMDB as a Chief of Staff, not a true Admiral. Now that I think about it, it was an interview of Bennett where the rule was discussed (thus his comment about making that exception).
Rick Berman and company made other exceptions, so I don't know how hard they tried to follow that rule, but a majority of their admirals were women or minorities, so they must have at least kept it in mind.
The point being - rules (even rules you make exceptions for) against casting a particular ethnic group or gender (or combination thereof) is unacceptable on any level.
#469
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Sorry guys, when you go into a show with a checklist of "needs" - Female lead, gay character, black character, etc. It's pandering. Characters should be created first with no emphasis on their race, gender or sexual orientation, then actors should be hired by the same standard (no attention to race, gender or sexual orientation). The cart shouldn't come before the horse.
#470
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 18,280
Received 368 Likes
on
262 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Sorry guys, when you go into a show with a checklist of "needs" - Female lead, gay character, black character, etc. It's pandering. Characters should be created first with no emphasis on their race, gender or sexual orientation, then actors should be hired by the same standard (no attention to race, gender or sexual orientation). The cart shouldn't come before the horse.
Because you're fooling yourself if you think it was the former.
Sometimes characters form the stories, and sometimes the stories for, the characters. For serial fiction, it's usually the characters that drive things. Aren't you a writer, Shannon? This is all screenwriting 101 stuff.
Last edited by majorjoe23; 08-13-16 at 10:56 AM.
#471
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
I have never heard of the admiral rule in all my years of being a Trekkie but if there was a memo that essentially said "since we're showing an enlightened future without racism and bigotry then we should make it a point to cast women and people of color as much as possible " then I wouldn't have a problem with that. The percentage of white people on tv is plain and simple not representative of the true makeup of humanity - using a show lie Star Trek to push that reality is the best use of tv I can think of.
#472
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Do do you think Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, and and Chekov were created as characters first, or as "The Scottish one, the Asian one, the black woman and the Russian one?"
Because you're fooling yourself if you think it was the former.
Sometimes characters form the stories, and sometimes the stories for, the characters. For serial fiction, it's usually the characters that drive things. Aren't you a writer, Shannon? This is all screenwriting 101 stuff.
Because you're fooling yourself if you think it was the former.
Sometimes characters form the stories, and sometimes the stories for, the characters. For serial fiction, it's usually the characters that drive things. Aren't you a writer, Shannon? This is all screenwriting 101 stuff.
The point I'm trying to make is if you REALLY want your show to be about diversity, don't pander to your audience by checking off a list of minorities and sexual orientations you're going to feature. The goal of a new Star Trek series shouldn't be about the race or sexual orientation of a character - there should be bigger ideas in mind. The characters in the Star Trek universe wouldn't give two hoots about the race/gender/sexuality of someone - so making it the focus of casting/characterization is a mistake.
Last edited by Shannon Nutt; 08-13-16 at 11:13 AM.
#473
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Yes, this is my point (see my above post). The race/sex/orientation of a character should be incidental to that character and the way he/she is written. Just hire the best actor for the character as internally written.
#474
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
Dude, the list includes unnamed admirals who appear in the background of crowd scenes, sorted by rank. This is a list compiled by obsessive fans who freeze-frame scenes so they can figure out what rank insignia somebody's wearing.
If you think it's "WAY incomplete," maybe you can name five admirals who aren't included.
I've seen every episode of TNG, DS9 and even Voyager, and that is absolutely not true. In fact, the two most significant admirals on DS9, Leyton and Ross, were white dudes.
But even supposing such a rule exists -- so what? Star Trek isn't about an American future. It's about the future of all humanity. And white dudes make up only a small portion of humanity. If Star Trek were being realistic, white men would account for less than an eighth of the human characters. The vast majority would be Asians of some kind, followed by Africans and people of African descent.
Chief-of-Staff is a job title, not a rank. And Chief-of-Staff for Starfleet Command would absolutely go to an admiral, as you can tell by the rank insignia on his uniform.
So when the recent remake of Roots only cast black actors in lead roles, that was unacceptable?
If you think it's "WAY incomplete," maybe you can name five admirals who aren't included.
Most of the Admirals on TNG and DS9 were women or minorities.
But even supposing such a rule exists -- so what? Star Trek isn't about an American future. It's about the future of all humanity. And white dudes make up only a small portion of humanity. If Star Trek were being realistic, white men would account for less than an eighth of the human characters. The vast majority would be Asians of some kind, followed by Africans and people of African descent.
The rule was in place as early as Star Trek III (with Robert Hooks as Admiral Morrow - great actor with tons of gravitas). Then you had Brock Peters (another great actor with gravitas) as Admiral Cartwright in IV and VI. Harve Bennett made an exception to play an Admiral himself in Star Trek V, but even then he explained he only went along with it because he was Jewish, thus a minority. And even then the character is listed on IMDB as a Chief of Staff, not a true Admiral.
The point being - rules (even rules you make exceptions for) against casting a particular ethnic group or gender (or combination thereof) is unacceptable on any level.
#475
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Star Trek: Discovery -- from EP Bryan Fuller -- Coming to CBS All-Access in 2017
You're writing a mystery. At one point the detective has to break into a mansion in a super-ritzy neighborhood. Do you think race would be "incidental" to the scene?