Decker

I really thought that bit where Gerrard was shown the suspect sketch of Elizabeth in exactly the same disguise he'd seen her in was going to pay off. I guess they explanation they came up with made sense, but it wasn't what I was expecting from that clever set-up

Thrush

Never said he was a dumbass. But they basically de-fanged and de-clawed his character. All he did this season was bang Nina and look into the lives of a couple of dead spies. Last season he was chasing dudes through the projects and shooting Russians in the face. Now hes like a character from Desperate Housewives.

bootsy

I didn't say you did but you were agreeing with the poster that did call him a dumbass.

Anyway his character is showing those vulnerabilities for the reasons I mentioned previously. Stan has a lot of conflict in his life right now. He is a human being not a robot so that conflict is going to get to him. I think it's great that they show him as not this unbreakable human being and that he is still able to do his job with other things going on around him in his life.

creekdipper

In fairness, for most agents, that would be enough.

Just ask Marty on True Detective.

Thrush

You can add depth and complexity to a character without completely neutering him.

Decker

This is a really well written piece from Grantland on the finale and looking back at Season 2. There's so much good analysis of Game of Thrones and Mad Men, but I rarely find much written about this excellent show. This long article is well worth reading.

bootsy

They didn't completely neuter him LOL. I haven't seen or heard this anywhere but from you about Stan being a weak or dumb character. What are you watching. He still has plenty of backbone. If he didn't he would have ran off with Nina and gave away the secrets of the weapons to the Russia. Just stop making crap up that isn't there.

Raul3

Watched the last two episodes back to back.

I halfly joked, in a previous thread, that maybe the son killed the parents. But of course I nwasnt expecting this whole outcome.

I thought it was a great season. And yeah, Stan continues to be a great character.

Thrush

So he didn't betray his country, whoop dee doo, lets give him a medal. His character has been completely nullified as an adversary to the Russians. Or as even a competent field agent. He spent the entire season being led around by his dick.

joliom

He did betray his country when he gave Oleg the FBI surveillance logs.

And sorry, bootsy, but Thrush is right: he's been played for a fool all season long by the Soviets. Some of the marks Phillip and Elizabeth worked showed more savvy than Stan who's supposed to be a trained counter-espionage agent. That said, I don't think he's a hopeless dumbass; they could still easily redeem him next season, and I really hope that they do.

bootsy

Bullshit. He isn't right. As I said if Stan was played for a fool he would have given in to what the Soviets wanted and he didn't.

bootsy

Taking the fact that he was very close to betraying his country lightly you sound ridiculous. Also he wasn't completely nullified as an adversary. If he did he would have given the Russians what they wanted to save Nina. When it mattered most he didn't give in so saying he completely did something is completely false. What you don't understand is that characters can change throughout a TV series. Just because you thought Stan was a complete badass in season 1 which he wasn't doesn't mean he's always going to be like that. He had weak moments in Season 1 as well but according to you he was a no nonsense badass. Like I said you are pulling shit out of your ass.

joliom

He didn't come close to betraying his country, he did betray his country. First by giving Oleg the surveillance logs, then by stealing the ECHO program. Even though he didn't end up delivering ECHO to the Soviets, copying it and sneaking it out of the Pentagon is still a treasonous offense.

PhantomStranger

Stan is not a very good agent. I guess we are supposed to believe his deep love for Nina has compromised him, but almost from the beginning he's done everything they warn counter-espionage agents not to do. For a guy that went deepcover inside white supremacy groups before this assignment, they haven't really written him as a deep thinker about his current situation.

If you ranked all the characters on the show by intelligence, he's somewhere around Paige or even below her. All the Russians have been shown as uber competent superspies except for the young woman that wanted to kill Larrick.

Decker

She wasn't Russian. Just a Nicaraguan ally.

Deftones

I would think he knew he was in trouble for being AWOL, so turning in 2 Russian spies might be his get out jail card free, so to speak.

Red Dog

Don't underestimate the power of the honeypot. And she's quite a honey. They warn this now, but 30 years ago....I'm doubtful they plow it into your head as much as they do now.

PhantomStranger

My mistake, I wrote it intending to be Communists.

Thrush

lol, wow. You appear to be "gotten to". Relax dude its just a TV show and BTW you're still wrong .

bootsy

LOL no I don't appear to have been 'gotten to'. Man you really do pull shit out of your ass A LOT. We just have two different views on Stan. We agree to disagree. And I'm not wrong about anything. Those are my opinions on Stan. i haven't seen your opinion on Stan being that way except on this board so it appears you are wrong if anyone is. You want or think Stan should be a one dimensional one note character. I'm glad you aren't a writer of a show or movie you'd be horrible.

joliom

Why would Stan being a more competent agent make him a one-dimensional, one-note character?

Thrush

Yep, gotten to.

Superman07

Thanks for the link, that was a really great article. Well written and some excellent observations.

We finally were able to finish up the season. It's such a heavy show it's a difficult show to marathon.

I find the show the strongest when the focus on Elizabeth and Phil's moral dilemmas from their mission to their family life.

I thought one of the improvements this year was bringing the respective boss' into the picture. A great highlight was Arkady in the field.

I was pleasantly shocked at the resolution to the murder mystery. So glad I didn't see it coming episodes prior. That said, I do wish the premier's sense of vulnerability to the home life was at the forefront in more episodes.

Quite puzzled by Elizabeth's rationale at the end. Same as Phil, especially after his message to Arkady.

coli

Just finished Season 2 on DVD, and what a great finish! Wasn't expecting the 2nd generation twist at the end, as it sets up a nice dynamic between Phillip and Elizabeth and how they feel about it.

The other thing I love about this show is they don't go for the obvious or the cheap stuff that can make great moments in the short-term but hurt the show in the long-term. Alot of stuff happens in a big way, but other things happen in a subtle way and that makes it more realistic.

Oh well, they haven't even announced Season 3 on DVD yet, as Season 2 didn't come out til last December, so it looks like I got a few months to wait, and then I can finally watch it live next year when Season 4 starts!