Navinabob

Hmm... I don't think you are correct. I think the shrine room is a "give thanks" area to those they have eaten. A way to distance themselves cognitively from the monsters they are. Either that it's a way for victims, who know their fate, to surrender maybe... but I think my first idea is the right one.

The bullet holes were clearly showing that this is what they do to get people where they want them to be. Notice people were all at the right places and doors were shut, and guys were even outside. This is an carefully choreographed routine.

Nothing we've seen makes your Rick stashed other people outside theory likely. So far, every community we've seen takes in new people willingly. Woodbury and the prison both welcomed people openly... Rick was wary, but he didn't have any real reason to think it was a trap. In hindsight... dumb ass move. However, it's the same dumb ass move most everyone would make.

Paff

Everyone complaining about the story "not going anywhere", or upset that Terminus will be an ongoing story for at least the beginning of Season 5, what would you suggest as an improvement? Not a rhetorical question. Because pretty much anything else, like an explanation and solution to the outbreak of zombies would basically end the show. This is an ongoing thing, a new way of living (and dying). It's constantly going to be a battle for survival, both amongst humans and from the zombies. They're not going to fly away in a helicopter or go to a desert island, and that's the end.

I'm a little leery to this talk of a spinoff. How will it be any different? If you want new characters, just add more characters. Other than that, it will just be the same thing in a different location.

Patrick_N

I liked this season.

For those that don't know the website yet, it's a nice way to represent votes.

http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt1520211

Preterite

They screwed with the wrong people.

Michael Corvin

I loved this half of the season. I'd been wanting them to break everyone up for awhile though. It just opens more story possibilities.

Lifepawn

Exactly. This is why Rick isn't worried about taking out the cannibals. He just defeated an armed group with only a few of his friends. Now that he's got a whole bunch of friends these cannibals don't stand a chance.

As for the shrine, my theory is that this group went cannibal early on to survive and the shrine is for their friends they had to eat. They regret eating their friends but they don't regret surviving. So now they only eat cattle from the outside guilt-free.

mwbmis

They were also credited in every episode whether they appeared in it or not. For instance in addition to the opening credits, the Clear episode last year credited Melissa McBride and Scott Wilson even thought they didn't appear. Similarly this year Emily Kinney, et al were credited in every episode. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them end up in the title credits next year. I assume Michael Cudlitz will be.

Shannon Nutt

Ratings are in:

Highest rated finale for the show yet (15.7 million viewers), but short of the highest rated episode. That honor still belongs to the Season 4 premiere (16.1 million viewers).

Last night scored a 10.2 in the 18-49 demo.
The Season 4 premiere scored a 10.4 in the 18-49 demo.

DJariya

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/12063026-post198.html

C'mon man, do have me on ignore?? And it was 10.2M viewers in the 18-49 demographic. The actual rating is 8.0.

rw2516

When Rick is showing/explaining the rabbit snare to Carl, was anyone else reminded of the railroad and the signs. Like the railroad is a snare.

Regarding the "Termites". Are they all an original group that picks off all newcomers? Does any newcomer ever get to join? What criteria determines who becomes a member of Terminus and who gets picked off?.

DJariya

I don't want to go off on a tangent on petty shit that's being discussed and over-analyzed here.

It was good to see Rick finally wake up from his coma and become a leader and have some balls. when he played vampire on Jeff Kober.

I thought the flashbacks to the prison with Hershel were kind of cool and added some perspective to this episode and Rick.

I think we're seeing different sides to how this show was being run. Glen Mazzara made it more about the action & horror aspect without much character growth. Gimple is focusing more on characters & the survival drama aspect. One of the things I appreciate about his work as showrunner is developing a lot of these characters more, especially Michonne.

chowderhead

Gareth did say when more people become a part of us, we become stronger
The terminus people specifically gave Rick's group nicknames i.e. the archer, the leader, samurai because they didn't want to know their names.

Shannon Nutt

Thanks for the correction. I don't have you on ignore...I just don't pay attention to your posts.

Michael Corvin

I get what they were trying to do with the flashbacks(and good to see Hershel again) but I don't think they worked. They just felt out of place.

That being said, after so many weeks without Rick I was starting to realize I didn't miss him at all. This funk he's been in for 3 seasons has been unbearable. Now, new Vampire Rick? I'm totally down with his character again.

Also, I think splitting everyone up did wonders for Michonne. She's no longer just the faceless samurai but on her way to being a decent character.

sracer

The flashbacks didn't work for me either... seemed like filler. Seeing Hershel just reminded me of how poorly the whole Governor showdown was handled.

I've lost all interest in Rick and Carl. I think that the show would be even better if they ran off into the woods never to be seen again.

Hokeyboy

I have to agree with this. Carl seems to only exist to provoke any kind of response out of Rick, and I'm so disinterested in Rick that both can go pound sand.

Preterite

Note that prison group introduced themselves earlier, and Gareth called Rick by name right up until he was ready for the cattle car. I believe it was pointed out in this thread that this is a callback to earlier in the season - don't name the animals you're going to eat.

Yeah, the half-season's format allowed for a lot of character development, and Michonne's character is probably the most improved as a result.

DJariya

People were complaining here when Michonne was 1st introduced that she had no personality and that she was worthless.

Didn't realize until last night that the 2 walkers she carried with her when she was 1st introduced was her boyfriend/the father of her baby and another friend. She has some really dark backstory that kind of explains why she was like that. I credit Scott Gimple for developing her more.

Coral

Very weak episode in a very weak season.

What's with buddy yelling for help? Here's an idea - if walkers are about to surround you... RUN!
When Carl/Rick got there, he had more than enough time and room to run... which meant he had even MORE time and room to run earlier.



I had a similar problem the other day. A car was headed right towards me - and even though it was still a mile away from me, I stood there screaming for help.

Raul3

I guess a horde was following him for a long time. So he got tired. And those were the few walkers that got him.

But yeah, your idea makes more sense.

DarthVong

He had nothing to do with that. That was in the comic (about the 2 walkers and who they were)

Coladar1

I'm sorry, I guess I *really* should have clarified that. Especially since I opened my entire, lengthy post with it.

Yeah, they did the old nasty to Carl. That wasn't what I meant by Rick's fault - neither was getting caught by them. It was, however, entirely Rick's fault they were after him. Entirely. He killed one of them. For little reason.

I really didn't like Rick did kill the guy because it felt unnecessary and undeserved. Now that they raped Carl, we can all say, "Hey, they were atrocious and got what was coming to them! Irredeemable, and Rick was right to off that guy the second he saw him in the house."

But we saw with Daryl the other side to them - they were rough and tumble, absolutely, but they did have rules and honor. I mean hell, it's exactly like the leader told Daryl - "I could've killed you and got a new crossbow, but I didn't."

Two parts here to deflect some of the feelings earned with Carl's scene -

A. That was pretty BS, a forced scene that was ripped from the comics involving other characters who did the doing to poor Carl in printed form. So in that sense I almost feel like the Carl rape was... not really having anything to do with these guys, their characterization or anything else. I don't feel like they ran around raping every little boy in a cowboy hat they came across. It was a scene and moment added because of the comics, nothing else, and in the comics it had nothing to do with these yahoos.

B. Was it *really* that insane? Well, yeah, okay, it was. Rape is bad. But they were specifically, intently chasing and hunting Rick down because he killed one of their men. The leader made the point he knew his men aren't good guys, and rules keep them in line, yadda yadda. But ignoring point A? Rick did kill one of their own. Out of the blue. All these guys knew or cared about was that the guy they were after strangled one of them to death. For all they knew Carl and Michonne were right there, too. Even if not, they were with Rick, the guy who strangled one of them to death - guilty by association.

So I feel like they had a legitimate beef with Rick, and genuine causation for revenge. They didn't know Rick from Adam, all they knew was he killed one of their own unprovoked. Most folks, under that scenario, would've had the same desire for revenge. Now then, maybe not raping a boy... but Rick killed them first, and so they were going to kill him and anyone he was with anyway. So as bad as rape is, they were going to murder them all anyway - and murder's pretty bad, too. But there, their killing Rick, Carl and Michonne was absolutely justified in my mind. Absolutely.

As such, it does mitigate the Carl nonsense *slightly*. It ain't like they just ran around looking for young boys to violate - nor is it like they chanced upon Rick and co. Rules were broken, a price had to be paid, yadda yadda. So when I say Rick is to blame, I mean that he undeniably started it. There was no beef there until he killed the guy. Now then, we can all ponder what would've happened if Rick had done otherwise - if he'd showed himself, if he hadn't killed the guy to escape. Likewise, I do have some sympathy/optimism for the band of thugs because of the whole Daryl situation and what we saw of them in scenes with him. Not nice guys by any means, but not exactly the Governor, either.

Hopefully that clarifies my otherwise questionable comment. As far as them being taken out by three unarmed folks? Yeah, granted - but if they went to a place like Terminus, they'd have shot first and questioned later. I don't feel like these guys were incompetent or inexperienced - they were thugs, savages and killers. They siege a place like Terminus, they might've failed in the end but done some serious damage along the way.

DthRdrX

I'm going to stick with what I said in one of these threads during the first half of S3, which I still think was the best run of this show so far.

S2 was all about slowing things down, and lowering costs. Darabont's intentions, and scripted material, were not in line with that philosophy so he was fired. When Mazzara took over at the end of S2 everything started ramping up. The storylines moved quicker, characters died quickly, and more money was spent.

AMC and Kirkman wanted to slow the story down so GM was replaced by Gimple who was being groomed for the spot the entire time as he came in with GM. IMO, they were responsible for the Gov/Prison story running into S4. It should have finished S3 off.

AMC is making a killing in ad revenue and products/licensing for this show. They are going to stretch it out as long as they can. "The Hunters" storyline only got six issues in the comics but will be a season or more on the show. Half of S4 and probably half of S5.

It should be noted the comics seem to be pumped out quicker now as well. They want more material to work with in the future.

DthRdrX

It was the Marauders from the comics, as they were referenced by the powers that be, just expanded to take up more time on the show. I'm actually surprised they didn't reference them as being a part of the group Randell told Daryl about in S2. That would have easily tied up the rape discussion and clicked things together for Daryl when he traveled with them.

Coladar1

Okay, a couple points - I'm totally unsold on what Terminus is. You might well be right. In a way, I'm hoping they aren't cannibals so that we can have a little difference from the comics. I was really disappointed with the Carl bit last night for precisely that reason - I've read the comics, so I'd really like some alternative stories and plots.

But one thing I do disagree on entirely is your belief the shrine is for victims of theirs. No way, no how. Not when the wall above said whatever it did to the effect of "Never forget, never again, us before them." Absolutely, absolutely meant, for me, that they'd been screwed hard in the past by someone and all these folks were the ones they lost in the process. You don't put ****ing mementos on only *some* of the markers to the fallen for people you've killed - even crazy cannibals with a ritualistic nature who feel their victims are sacrifices that fulfill a holy purpose or whatever. Mementos, guitars and crap, like that are for shrines to loved ones. That place was totally like what you see after 9/11 or school shootings, widely varied tributes to a host of different victims.

You could be right about the bullets being strictly from herding folks - except I don't think that's common. I suspect 99% of the time it's like with Maggie and Co. - they walk in through the front, disarm, then bye-bye. Hell, these folks don't have that kind of ammo to waste herding people into a traincar for everyone who walks through the doors. And also, if that were the case, you'd expect just as much damage - no, actually, even more damage - near the entrance and their living areas. The places that were pristine.

My others outside theory? I dunno on that one - I'm just hoping that's the case. Otherwise, everybody is in a meat locker unarmed and any miracle is going to be convoluted and fictitious. Plus, it makes Rick seem really stupid. Go in guns blazing, ninja style, expecting the worst - meaning they weren't buying into Terminus the Utopia. All they've seen and been through, why on Earth would you put all your cards on the table and walk everybody in together? Your own son?

Fine, they even commented they had perimeter guards, so they couldn't have waited by the fence for Rick to give the all clear... have everybody except one or two wait miles away then. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the scenario of having one or two enter, scope it out, and if it is a great place? You tell them a day or week later that hey, I've got these other folks from my group here and wanted to make sure you all were kosher myself before risking them. Now that I see it is, I/you can bring them in.

Second part to the others outside - I still stand by the burying of the guns outside the fences being retarded otherwise. Crap goes south, you get caught and disarmed? If you can or do escape, you'll either hit their armory/your captured weapons, or if you're outside the fences just keep right on going. So either take all the assault weapons with you when you take everybody inside the first time and make use of them then, or you won't really ever need to worry with them again.

I dunno, I just can't believe it'll be a half a year until any answers are forthcoming. Hell of a way to leave things on a cliffhanger, especially after tauntingly dangling Terminus for half this season and with excruciatingly slow pacing for most of those episodes. But considering the ratings from last night, obviously it's working gangbusters so far.