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Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

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Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Old 04-19-13, 03:04 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
people here who are ripping the show are acting like Dan Harmon wrote all 22 episodes last season.
I don't think anyone has even mentioned Dan Harmon in this thread. I also don't know what his writing credits have to do with anything. He's been credited on what, 4 or 5 episodes over the course of the series? But no one questions the fact that this show is/was his vision. This isn't a Matt Groening situation where he was the public face of the show but not really involved with the day-to-day. I obviously never worked on the show, but by all accounts Harmon was VERY hands on. After seeing what the show has become without him, it's obvious to me what he brought to the table. It wasn't always perfect, but it was a heck of a lot better (or least noticeably different) than what we've been getting this year.
Old 04-19-13, 03:08 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
people here who are ripping the show are acting like Dan Harmon wrote all 22 episodes last season.
Wow. Where did you get that from? .... no don't show me.
Most of us here know how it works. sheesh. I silently defend this show. Usually there are only 5 or 6 really good shows and 5 or 6 really bad and the rest are just mediocre. But to have all the bad episodes up front doesn't bode well for its swan song.
Old 04-19-13, 03:30 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Also, there isn't much room for error with these shortened seasons.
Old 04-19-13, 03:39 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Unlike many here I've enjoyed this season's episodes. Last night's, however, I just found boring. There were a few funny moments but overall I just couldn't get into it.
Old 04-19-13, 05:22 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

There are a few different things going on here:

1) The new writers do not get Troy at all
2) There is a lot the new writers don't get about Abed

They're the most challenging characters on the show to get right.

3) The new writers seem to be trying too hard to get the right proportion of "zany", which is something IMHO that is not at all necessary -- get the characters on this show right and the rest follows

4) The network screwed them on the timing of the holiday episodes. Watching Halloween and Christmas crap in the spring does not work for me even a little bit.

5) The show is aging. While there was a lot to love about season 3, season 2 was better and more focused. This show wasn't designed as a 7 season show. If Dan Harmon were there, the characters would be right but that wouldn't change some of the challenges this season needed to deal with.

All in all, I think there is no reason creatively to let this show be renewed. I'll be a bit hurt if NBC goes that way. If they do renew it, I'll still watch and hope for a spark of something I saw in this show back when I truly loved it. Now it's pretty much the last show I watch on my DVR each week, which is why I haven't seen this episode yet.

ETA: I think a fitting analogy is that Season 2 of Community was like Newsradio and Season 4 of Community has been like Suddenly Susan. Glance and they may look pretty damned similar. Focus in more, and Newsradio was just clearly superior in every way.

Last edited by Jimmy James; 04-19-13 at 05:28 PM.
Old 04-20-13, 08:21 AM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

I finally got a chance to sit down and watch this one. I thought Malcolm McDowell was pretty good and it was great to see him actually used this episode unlike the other one he appeared in. I actually thought this one had potential and I liked where it was going with Cornwallis pitting them all against each other (especially the way he provoked the Britta/Troy/Jeff triangle), but like the majority of this year's episodes it just didn't go anywhere. Whoever said that this felt like a 1st or 2nd draft nailed it. That's how I've felt about this entire season. The ideas are pretty good in some cases but the cohesion and polish aren't there (neither are the laughs, but that's subjective). It's seems to me that's the main ingredient that's missing without Harmon.

In the end, this episode was just a pale imitation of Cooperative Calligraphy aka the bottle episode. That episode is probably in my top 5 and I couldn't stop thinking about it when watching this. Then Troy had to go and actually reference the episode which made it even worse. Note to the writers: don't acknowledge that your episode is a retread if it's not as good as the original. It just makes you look like inferior writers.

Oh, and as someone who has always defended Ken Jeong on this show, I now know what all the haters feel like. Britta can rest easy, because retard Chang is the worst.
Old 04-20-13, 11:58 AM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

This one was alright. I still haven't been blown away by anything this season.

I did like the two-minute single-shot during the opening.

Didn't the season preview have something to do with "Die Hard in a Restaurant"?

Also, I expected something funnier built around Pierce's absence.
Old 04-20-13, 01:16 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

For those that didn't get the reference, this episode was themed after Hitchcock's Rope. That's why it had the long shots and some unusual shot setups. What's odd is that Rope is known for extensive use of hidden cuts, but I don't recall any in this episode.
Old 04-20-13, 01:44 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by troystiffler View Post
I expected something funnier...
At this point, I say we drop all expectations
Old 04-20-13, 03:00 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
For those that didn't get the reference, this episode was themed after Hitchcock's Rope. That's why it had the long shots and some unusual shot setups. What's odd is that Rope is known for extensive use of hidden cuts, but I don't recall any in this episode.
Eh. I've seen Rope. I always think of it when I see long single shots. But if that's what they were going for, they didn't really go for it. It was in an apartment.

I thought it was more of a nod to any generic play or stage-ey film.
Old 04-20-13, 04:52 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

I really expected people to like this episode more. It was my favorite of the season by far.
Old 04-20-13, 07:06 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

The only ones that have worked, or partially worked, for me, this season were set in the school. Every time they've left that setting this year it just falls apart.
Old 04-20-13, 09:36 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by troystiffler View Post
Eh. I've seen Rope. I always think of it when I see long single shots. But if that's what they were going for, they didn't really go for it. It was in an apartment.

I thought it was more of a nod to any generic play or stage-ey film.
I agree. I didn't exactly pick up on the Rope angle either, but I knew there was something off on the cinematography. The tracking shots didn't throw me, because most directors likes to play with those, it was the standard TV shot setups that had odd framing. Shots that would normally be close ups weren't, probably because the director tried to stick with one focal length.

Here's what the AV Club wrote:
I was wondering if there was any thought given to shooting the episode all in Rope-style tracking shots, so I asked Andy Bobrow on Twitter, and he said, “I wanted to sooo badly! If you look, most of cold open is one shot. Some v. long shots in act one. I believe in my heart we could have done it, but production was very reluctant. Also that week we had limited availability for Joel [McHale]. Biggest obstacle: had to hit 21.5 minutes. Hitchcock at least had luxury of being able to rehearse for weeks and did not have to hit specific overall length. One thing Tristram [Shapeero, director] did was shoot all with same focal length, which was true of Rope. Shorter answer: Yes, I am absolutely haunted by the belief that Harmon would have insisted, whereas I acquiesced to the restrictions.” (For her part, Megan Ganz chimed in with, “Oof. #sorespot”)
The joke Abed made at the end of the cold open about the group waiting quietly for the next plot point was likely a reference to the fact that the episode, like Rope, was shot in "real time".
Old 04-21-13, 09:07 AM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by Jimmy James View Post
There are a few different things going on here:

1) The new writers do not get Troy at all
2) There is a lot the new writers don't get about Abed
I agree Troy has gotten dumber and Abed has gotten more obscure. Abed has essentially turned into the Batman villain "Film Freak" http://www.comicvine.com/film-freak/4005-27075/

Also, has Britta gotten more bitchy?
Old 04-21-13, 02:06 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Shorter answer: Yes, I am absolutely haunted by the belief that Harmon would have insisted, whereas I acquiesced to the restrictions.” (For her part, Megan Ganz chimed in with, “Oof. #sorespot”)
This to me was a really enlightening comment with regards to the qualities Harmon brought to the table. I'm not saying Harmon would have made this a great episode, or even that he would've been able to convince the studio to go all the way with the Rope parody, but the fact that the current staff have this perception of Harmon as an uncompromising force of nature tells me all I need to know. This season has felt half-assed to me from the begining and my feeling was Harmon's drive was/is sorely missed. This comment basically confirms it for me.
Old 04-21-13, 09:36 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by Jimmy James View Post
There are a few different things going on here:

1) The new writers do not get Troy at all
2) There is a lot the new writers don't get about Abed

They're the most challenging characters on the show to get right.
That's a good point. All the other characters can be written 'by the numbers' and still come out alright but those two had a lot of subtlety and something is lost by simply writing them as 'dumb guy' and 'meta nerd'.

As far as the episode goes I thought it was pretty good by this season's standards. The concept itself wasn't bad and they did a good job of keeping things moving for a 'bottle' episode.
Old 04-22-13, 12:23 AM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

You know, this actually worked for me. I think the show might want to focus on bottle episodes -- they tend to coast on characterization a little more than the A/B story (or A/B/C story) structure.
Old 04-22-13, 06:38 AM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Thought this was better than the travesty that was the puppet episode (I didn't mind the puppets, it just wasn't funny). I would have loved to have it all shot in one continuous shot. That would have been Commitment!

Perhaps my biggest complaint this season is (as mentioned above) that Troy is not only mis-used but woefully underused. Over the course of the show, Troy probably has had close to 75% of my favorite lines. But now, he's lucky if he gets 5 lines in an episode. Also, the Britta Relationship storyline just doesn't work.
Old 04-22-13, 07:20 AM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

I liked it. Seems like I am enjoying this season more than most.

Glad there was no Pierce, but starting to wish Abed would be pushed out as well. He's just too meta now for my liking.
Old 04-22-13, 01:06 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Originally Posted by Jimmy James View Post
All in all, I think there is no reason creatively to let this show be renewed. I'll be a bit hurt if NBC goes that way.
This is perhaps the dumbest thing I've EVER read on the internet. Your PERSONAL feelings will be hurt if a NATIONAL entertainment program is renewed by its network.

I loved the first season of Glee. I freakin' loved it. I enjoyed the second season of Glee. I despised the third season of Glee. My feelings were not hurt when it was renewed for a fourth and they weren't hurt last week when it was renewed for five and six. I stopped watching Glee after season 3. It went along its merry way, and I went along my merry way.

If you don't like something, stop watching it. Don't let it affect your feelings.
Old 04-22-13, 05:38 PM
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Re: Community -- "INTRO TO KNOTS" -- 4/18/13

Wow, talk about reading into something things that weren't there at all. My choice of phrase wasn't the best, but I assure you my feelings won't be hurt if they renew the show. Heck, I'll probably still watch it. What I was getting at there is more along the lines of offense. My sense of what is and isn't a good renewal would be offended by this show being renewed. It has reached a stage in its narrative where the central character has earned his last credit necessary for graduation. While Harmon may have had a plan that made 6 seasons and a movie possible, I don't see that remaining in this show's viable life under current circumstances.

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