superdeluxe

Damnit lol

johnnysd

I actually think the TV version is more realistic and truer to Robbs character

johnnysd

No spoilers, but I suspect you may be disappointed in the books then because I think that ultimately they are one of the most important elements in the book overall.

starman9000

I've read the books.

Dr. DVD

I know the Reeds have their fans, but I kind of like what they're doing with Osha. She's gone from being Bran's threat to his lead protector (Hodor might be big, but that's about it). Quite an interesting arc.

What gets me about the series and the books is how everyone south of the wall seems content to ignore everything going on in the area. I still think Martin has written too many side plots (does he even have a main plot?) and cannot really figure his way out of the situation, hence why he's spending all of his time at conventions as opposed to writing.

superdeluxe

Well she is about to be Rickon's lead protector pretty soon.

Dave99

It's not necessarily too many plots directly, he got tripped up with timing on dany's side of the world and painted himself into a corner - the whole Meereenese knot thing.

wishbone

With all the changes between S2 and Book Two (into Book Three) -- and general spoilerishness in these threads -- I guess I'm going to finish the rest of the books and be done with it.

Oh and...



Hodor!

Ropes Pierre

Their tourism bureau should co opt that slogan.

"Come to Westros, where most everyone's an asshole. You'll fit right in"

Josh-da-man

I sort of wonder if he shouldn't have kept the five year jump after "A Storm of Swords."

So much shit goes down in that book that it sort feels like the end of something, and there would be a natural pause in the conflict.

But then he gets it in his head that it would be unrealistic for nothing important to have happened in the five year gap, so he starts stretching the story out in the middle where nothing major happens waiting for children and dragons to mature.

JasonF

I disagree. Mordred is exactly right. In the books, he wound up in a situation where he had to chose between dishonoring Jeyne and dishonoring Lord Frey. Sure, it was his own stupidity that got him there (maybe with a little help from Tywin), but he didn't set out to wrong anybody and once he found himself in that predicament, he tried his best to honor both his commitments. In the show, he basically ignores his commitment to Lord Frey. That strikes me as less true to Robb's character (he is his father's son, after all).

arminius

I just finished season 1 on netflix. Very good stuff. I was thinking about Ned and his concept of honor and what it led to. Starting with the beheading of the deserter and ending with his, I think his concept of honor was seriously flawed. Regardless of whether or not the deserter should be punished, he should have been debriefed thoroughly. It was obvious he was very upset and something out of the ordinary had occured. But Ned just lopped off his head and forgot about it.

Later on in Kings Landing he then goes on to alienate himself and his men from almost everybody else there. I think he never wished to be the Kings Hand and was aware he was out of his depth in the Great Game being played but just blithely went ahead with honorable actions regardless of the consequences. Twice he had his troops slaughtered by the Lannisters. He never seems to have just stopped and thought about what what would happen when he presents things to the queen about the bastards and the incest. It was like he only thought "I must do what is right" rather than think about the effects of his actions. He does not take a long range view of things, only thinking in the moment.

I think this results in dishonor and horror for the very people whom he is representing. He may view his actions as honorable but the results are not. Contrast this with the Kingslayer. He did something which Ned really takes issue with and considers very dishonorable. And yet the reason he did it and the result was, I feel, very honorable. He did protect the realm as opposed to Neds mishandling of almost everything he did in Kings Landing which results in the deaths of almost his entire entourage, his family in great danger and the world at war.

This also reminded me of the Seal debacle with Mike Murphy and his MoH. His actions, which I am sure he thought were honorable, resulted in the death of himself and his entire team save 1 and the deaths of over 30 other guys in the shithook that got shot down. He could have done something other than just letting the 2 locals go, from shooting them, taking them along or aborting the mission. Was it his sense of honor or humanity that caused him to make the decision that ended up killing him? Was it really an honorable decision?

I really liked Neds character and also thought he had a fitting though surprising end. I think he and Murphy thought of honor too simplistically.

A bit of a rave but it really had me thinking about this for the last few weeks. What say ye?

pinata242

TL;DR

I think you're brave for having only watched season one coming into a thread openly marked as season 2 spoilers