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-   -   Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/590468-fringe-season-finale-day-we-died-5-06-11-a.html)

MEJHarrison 05-11-11 07:34 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Navinabob (Post 10767028)
With no kidnapping ever, why are the two universes fighting it out?

As I understand it, it wasn't the kidnapping that started the destruction of the universes. It was the crossing over. We know Walter crossed over to take Peter. But it's a flaw in logic to assume that Walter wouldn't cross over if Peter didn't exist. We have tons of evidence to suggest Walter would cross over even without a good excuse. That's what he does.

Navinabob 05-11-11 07:55 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by MEJHarrison (Post 10767158)
As I understand it, it wasn't the kidnapping that started the destruction of the universes. It was the crossing over. We know Walter crossed over to take Peter. But it's a flaw in logic to assume that Walter wouldn't cross over if Peter didn't exist. We have tons of evidence to suggest Walter would cross over even without a good excuse. That's what he does.

Good point. He had already made the "window" so he could look into the other world, crossing over is not that much of a step.

B.A. 05-11-11 10:11 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
I am looking forward to next season, despite the fact that I am not a fan of the Peter disappearing bullshit.

Josh-da-man 05-11-11 10:22 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

J.J. Abrams originally said, “I want six seasons,” but that was back before we even had the pilot. I think they’ll put an end date on it like they did with Lost, and that way we can go out really strongly and finish up as one of the great science-fiction series of all time. That would be my wish, rather than going on for 10 years then going [Snores.]
I've heard the "six seasons" thing for a long time. I was under the impression that they had that much story planned out from the beginning. But the show moves so slowly that I think they could probably compress the ending down if Fox ends up giving Fringe the ax early as long as they have enough advanced notice.

Deftones 05-11-11 10:50 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
Now that Human Target is canceled, bring back Mark Valley!

Superman07 05-12-11 09:51 AM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
Another really good interview, this time with the show runners: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-fien...ale-and-future

They talk about the finale, the overall planning of the show, how elements tie together and some rough plans for season 4.

Raul3 05-12-11 01:00 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Deftones (Post 10767442)
Now that Human Target is canceled, bring back Mark Valley!

Is he still friends Anna Torv? I know they were married and then divorced.

But yeah, he would be a great addition.

Ayre 05-12-11 01:24 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Superman07 (Post 10767889)
Another really good interview, this time with the show runners: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-fien...ale-and-future

That interview worries me a bit. It almost seems like what the Lost team was going through and then justifying it by saying they were responding to what worked. Sound like code for just winging it and a lot of retcon. I just hope they give the series ending a half a season to resolve.

ATX 05-12-11 02:02 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
recasting mark valley would be a disasterous walt storyline... his character was too early on when they didnt know what they were going to do with this show... last i remember he had clones or some shit, now where would olivias old love and/or clones play a role in the current storyline of the show?

Navinabob 05-12-11 02:04 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by ATX (Post 10768266)
recasting mark valley would be a disasterous walt storyline... his character was too early on when they didnt know what they were going to do with this show... last i remember he had clones or some shit, now where would olivias old love and/or clones play a role in the current storyline of the show?

He can be the alternate version, so he can be whatever they want.

windom 05-12-11 02:34 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by ATX (Post 10768266)
recasting mark valley would be a disasterous walt storyline... his character was too early on when they didnt know what they were going to do with this show... last i remember he had clones or some shit, now where would olivias old love and/or clones play a role in the current storyline of the show?

Yeah, I'm not sure how well the show's early storylines mesh with the current storylines. Is the Pattern just due to the two collapsing universes or was that a different thing entirely. I still don't really understand how the shapeshifters fit into everything. Did Walternate create the shapeshifters and send them over here?

Superman07 05-12-11 02:47 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by windom (Post 10768317)
Yeah, I'm not sure how well the show's early storylines mesh with the current storylines. Is the Pattern just due to the two collapsing universes or was that a different thing entirely. I still don't really understand how the shapeshifters fit into everything. Did Walternate create the shapeshifters and send them over here?

I thought they determined the pattern was related to the string of abnormal activities that had bee occurring? In retrospect, I think a lot of those turned out to be science experiments of a sort that the Other Side was conducting over here. They were mostly an attempt to figure out how to cross over. I think the shapeshifters were part of this. Since they couldn't fully send over organic material, they were able to send these over as programable operatives to do their bidding.

ultimaton 05-12-11 03:58 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Superman07 (Post 10768338)
I thought they determined the pattern was related to the string of abnormal activities that had bee occurring? In retrospect, I think a lot of those turned out to be science experiments of a sort that the Other Side was conducting over here. They were mostly an attempt to figure out how to cross over. I think the shapeshifters were part of this. Since they couldn't fully send over organic material, they were able to send these over as programable operatives to do their bidding.

The events of The Pattern were at locations radiating out in a pattern Reiden Lake, but most (if not all) of them were being committed by ZFT, no?

Speaking of ZFT, have we even seen them since David Robert Jones was killed in the S1 finale? Kind of strange, since the entire first season was basically about ZFT and their experiments in fringe science for use in the war with the Other Side. Seems like they would have played a role in the last two years, since the war has heated up.

Josh-da-man 05-12-11 04:59 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
My take on "the pattern" is that it is scientific phenomena related to other universe technology, either things being perpetrated by the other side against this side (ala the shape shifters) or other side technology that has made it over here. Nina's cyborg arm would seem to be something from "over there" that made it "over here," probably through William Bell.

I think they've pretty much dropped ZFT from the series, and I doubt they'll get more than a passing mention, if even that.

Gunde 05-13-11 01:20 AM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Ayre (Post 10768208)
That interview worries me a bit. It almost seems like what the Lost team was going through and then justifying it by saying they were responding to what worked. Sound like code for just winging it and a lot of retcon. I just hope they give the series ending a half a season to resolve.

Fortunately they are good at answering questions as they go along. They don't just pile them on for years without answers any like 'Lost' did.

aynrandgirl 05-13-11 01:41 AM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by MEJHarrison (Post 10767158)
As I understand it, it wasn't the kidnapping that started the destruction of the universes. It was the crossing over.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong too. It was the mass imbalance created by taking Peter back here without leaving dead Peter's body to replace him. That's why Walternate shipped a dismembered Broyles to us when he retrieved Altlivia. We've seen explicit evidence that mass imbalances cause disruptions. The thousands of tons in a brownstone cause instant disruptions, while the small imbalance of a human body took decades to have effect.

aynrandgirl 05-13-11 01:43 AM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by windom (Post 10768317)
Yeah, I'm not sure how well the show's early storylines mesh with the current storylines.

I think they don't at all. S1 Fringe might as well be a different show. Most of the plot points that drove that season have been dropped.

Superman07 05-13-11 10:14 AM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by windom (Post 10768317)
Yeah, I'm not sure how well the show's early storylines mesh with the current storylines. Is the Pattern just due to the two collapsing universes or was that a different thing entirely. I still don't really understand how the shapeshifters fit into everything. Did Walternate create the shapeshifters and send them over here?


Originally Posted by aynrandgirl (Post 10769259)
I think they don't at all. S1 Fringe might as well be a different show. Most of the plot points that drove that season have been dropped.

I really don't think that's true. As I said in another thread I think they're doing a good job of trying season 1 occurrences into the current story. If they were truly planned or not is another question of course. In fact, I think this interview I just found does a good job of addressing this exact issue.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c8YOWK7SClQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MEJHarrison 05-13-11 07:01 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by aynrandgirl (Post 10769258)
I'm pretty sure that's wrong too. It was the mass imbalance created by taking Peter back here without leaving dead Peter's body to replace him. That's why Walternate shipped a dismembered Broyles to us when he retrieved Altlivia. We've seen explicit evidence that mass imbalances cause disruptions. The thousands of tons in a brownstone cause instant disruptions, while the small imbalance of a human body took decades to have effect.

That's true. However, the point still stands that Peter not existing should not imply that Walter didn't visit the other universe. And to add to that theory, he could have easily brought someone else back.

Really the main point is that people are thinking the other universe wouldn't be in trouble because Peter never existed. But we don't know that. Just because there wasn't a Peter to kidnap does not mean Walter wouldn't have visited. Or brought someone else back with him.

B.A. 05-13-11 07:16 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Deftones (Post 10767442)
Now that Human Target is canceled, bring back Keen Eddie!

Hells yeah!

Josh-da-man 05-13-11 08:24 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by MEJHarrison (Post 10770436)
That's true. However, the point still stands that Peter not existing should not imply that Walter didn't visit the other universe. And to add to that theory, he could have easily brought someone else back.

This creates some interesting problems. Any travel between universes is going to transfer material, right on down to things like dust particles and air molecules. At such miniscule and nearly indetectable levels, it's going to be impossible to do a perfect mass transfer. If a whole world (or universe?) is going to thrown off-balance by the mass of a human child, it's probably going to get thrown off-kilter by a single molecule.

And speaking of the other universe, is it just the alternate Earth that's being destroyed or their whole universe? Are holes opening up on their Mars, other places in their Milky Way galaxy, and other galaxies in their universe?

BearFan 05-13-11 08:29 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
In an inteview I read, one of the producers described the lab with the machine
Spoiler:
as an airlock where people could go back and forth ... I assumed eliminating the trade-off rule.

aynrandgirl 05-13-11 11:00 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 10770524)
If a whole world (or universe?) is going to thrown off-balance by the mass of a human child, it's probably going to get thrown off-kilter by a single molecule.

Maybe. There are plenty of real-world physical effects that have sharp thresholds. Under the threshold, nothing, over the threshold, boom (so to speak).

ultimaton 05-13-11 11:49 PM

Re: Fringe -- Season Finale -- "The Day We Died" -- 5/06/11
 
Wasn't it pretty well established in the episode "Peter" that it was Walter's portal "punching a hole" through space-time that started to collapse the universe? That's why Dr. Warren and Nina were so desperate to stop him from crossing over initially, wasn't it?


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