"South Park" Deconstructed
07-26-10, 12:37 AM
#53
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
For future reference: could I be provided with a list of TV shows that *is* acceptable to voice a negative opinion on? I don't want to provoke the throng...er, group of detractors who would smear the messenger, rather than intelligently challenge the message.*
*However, there were a few people who did indeed intelligently debate the main issue rather than taking the typical road of acting like the average "South Park" fan. So, I salute you.
*However, there were a few people who did indeed intelligently debate the main issue rather than taking the typical road of acting like the average "South Park" fan. So, I salute you.
1. You created a thread to "deconstruct" the show in an intelligent manner. That's fine, but after you did that you showed your cockiness by insisting that we pass on your opinion as it were gospel. Then you went ahead and said you wanted the creators of a TV show die of cancer. That took any validity out of your argument and you just came off looking like a guy that wants to hate on a show for the sake of hating it.
2. You say that there are a few people on here that intelligently debated the main issue... I agree. In particular I'm looking at two posts by Navinabob. However, you made no attempt to quote those posts and respond back defending your position. Instead you pick and choose other posts to quote and insult those people by saying that they're drinking Matt and Trey's Kool Aid. This thread got derailed because of your posts. If you wanted this to remain an intelligent conversation about South Park you would have responded to the intelligent posts and defended your position. The rest of the posters would have followed suit.
3. You still haven't told us WHY you still watch the show. No one says you can't criticize a show, that's fully in your right. But why not tell us why you still watch the show when it's been flat out asked of you? It's a fair question and by not answering it you're telling us that the only reason you watch is to criticize the show.
As for your original post: So you're telling us that South Park is a show that uses pop culture references, takes a stance on it, makes some jokes about it and then gives us a tongue-in-cheek morality ending? And this took you 14 years to figure out? The show has been like that since the beginning and it's no secret. You haven't discovered anything new here (which makes your "feel free to circulate" line so ridiculous). You can dislike it if you want, but the reason the show has been on for so long is because they've taken a route where they focus whole episodes on pop culture and political events. If they focused the show just on the lives of four 8 year olds the show would have gotten stale and ended long ago. Look at "Entourage", "The Office" or "How I Met Your Mother"... well liked shows that many feel have gotten stale because they locked themselves into a schtick that they can't get out of without drastically changing the show. None of those shows will last half as long as SP.
07-26-10, 12:37 AM
#54
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
Irony or hypocrisy? Only "SP" acolytes know for sure.
07-26-10, 03:26 AM
#56
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
I think you might be confused at what an opinion is. Anyone is allowed to say an opinion "I don't like the way this tastes" is a good example... "Obama is an alien from Mars pushing his Nazi doomsday plan to kill all our cats" is neither an opinion or sane because you are citing evidence and making claims that are not true. Once you step into that arena you are at the mercy of those who know more then you.
I remember reading that Howard Stern fans listened to his show 4 hours a week while those who hate his show listen to it for about 7. Personally I was more of an Adam Carolla fan so when Howard left free air I didn't much miss him. He had his moments mind you (like him going after the nut-case family picketing solider funerals), but I prefer more observational humor with someone I feel actually takes interest in their guests and less interest in the lives of his crew. Maybe that's why I enjoy Craig Ferguson so much... Now I could be wrong as I only listened for a few weeks while the drive was convenient and I've not followed him since he went to a paid radio service.
I've never really felt the need to jump into a pro-Howard topic here and piss on his fans; to do so would be low-class. Heck, I've only bothered to post once or twice in Ferguson and Carolla threads with a question or quip even though I'm most assuredly surrounded by like-minded folk. Once I decided Howard was not my cup of tea I both stopped listening and didn't really look back. That's pretty much what everyone else here would do.
Was any of that side-story sinking in at all? Look, you name-drop enough educated terms that makes me think you are not as dim as you sound. Your profile indicates that you are still in school and that suggests your age (but that might have only been true a decade ago) so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Check out this link and re-read your post and try to see where you might have gone wrong. Heck, while you are there listen to a few podcasts. It's never too late to start some critical thinking.
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/reso...fallacies.aspx
I remember reading that Howard Stern fans listened to his show 4 hours a week while those who hate his show listen to it for about 7. Personally I was more of an Adam Carolla fan so when Howard left free air I didn't much miss him. He had his moments mind you (like him going after the nut-case family picketing solider funerals), but I prefer more observational humor with someone I feel actually takes interest in their guests and less interest in the lives of his crew. Maybe that's why I enjoy Craig Ferguson so much... Now I could be wrong as I only listened for a few weeks while the drive was convenient and I've not followed him since he went to a paid radio service.
I've never really felt the need to jump into a pro-Howard topic here and piss on his fans; to do so would be low-class. Heck, I've only bothered to post once or twice in Ferguson and Carolla threads with a question or quip even though I'm most assuredly surrounded by like-minded folk. Once I decided Howard was not my cup of tea I both stopped listening and didn't really look back. That's pretty much what everyone else here would do.
Was any of that side-story sinking in at all? Look, you name-drop enough educated terms that makes me think you are not as dim as you sound. Your profile indicates that you are still in school and that suggests your age (but that might have only been true a decade ago) so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Check out this link and re-read your post and try to see where you might have gone wrong. Heck, while you are there listen to a few podcasts. It's never too late to start some critical thinking.
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/reso...fallacies.aspx
07-26-10, 12:34 PM
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
Are you kidding me PatD? Similar join date, nick name and post count as me? You are doing this simply to tarnish my reputation, right?
Weak!
Weak!
07-26-10, 03:34 PM
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07-26-10, 04:06 PM
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
I actually joined over a decade ago with an old work email to join the site, but after I forgot my password I lost the ability to log in. So I ended up lurking for five or six years before feeling the urge to sign up again.
No real point... I just wanted to share my own lurking story.
No real point... I just wanted to share my own lurking story.
07-26-10, 05:20 PM
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
We are happily spiraling off-topic until Pat comes back. Personally I'm doing my very best to avoid doing that. Hey, nice signature quote Tea! Is it yours?
07-26-10, 06:18 PM
#63
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
07-26-10, 09:19 PM
#64
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
Maybe the OP is the same guy who wrote this..
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/southpark.htm
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/southpark.htm
07-27-10, 11:53 AM
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
I think it is hysterical that people are still getting bent out of shape over South Park, I mean come on guys, have you been holding it all back for the past 14 years or what. I mean gosh, what is going to happen when Beavis and Butthead are back on TV ..... is armageddon upon us?
07-27-10, 02:57 PM
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07-29-10, 01:19 AM
#67
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
Sorry, I've been away for awhile.
Anyhoo, I'd like to clear up a few things:
1. I don't possess any magical powers that inflict cancer (pancreatic, or otherwise) on anyone at my will. Therefore your two sacred cows are most likely safe and sound from the Big C.
2. Speaking of sacred cows--I find it immensely interesting that outspoken iconoclasts TP & MS are considered off limits from satire let alone criticism (except by religious fundamentalists) not just on the internet, but ANYWHERE without a group of idolatrous fanatics crying bloody murder--kind of like those fanatics who objected to T & M's treatment of The Prophet Mohamed--for which William Shatner once uttered: "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." (However pre-middle school level pettiness is a strong trait of most "SP" fans as well as those involved in the making of "SP"--in short: they're pretty brazen about doling out abuse, but not being gracious when it's shot back at them. Read: hypocrisy^1,000,000,000)
3. If you're looking for hypocrisy from "SP" look no further than the episodes: "Kenny's Dead" (which advocated stem cell research) and later "Krazy Kripples" (which did a 180 on the issue even so far as condemning Christopher Reeve for having the gall to want to regain mobility with the help of the aforementioned stem cells). Or, there's the oh-so-famous "Trapped in the Closet" which mercilessly slams one group's religion, while later on, the two-parter "Go-God-Go" (which chides people for "being a dick to other people's religion"). These are just two examples of Trey and Matt's longstanding 'bob and weave' policy of "not really meaning what we say, until we say we mean it, and then *possibly* until we backtrack to point A and then rip people for doing the exact same thing." Essentially using "Irony as an Insurance Policy" a.k.a. "The Pop Culture-Commentating Pussy's Best Friend".
4. If you respond to a so-called troll's post (or someone who you perceive/accuse of being such), outside of asking them to stop, then you have ABSOLUTELY *NO* MORAL HIGH GROUND TO STAND ON NOR IN WHINING ABOUT IT.
5. And lastly:
a) my request for those who agreed with my position to spread this meme-style around the internet is *not* seriously meant to take down Comedy Central's Biggest Show Ever (are you guy's frigging serious?) It is meant, and only meant, to flip some long overdue crap at Trey and Matt and their vastly overrated creation.
b) I wasn't expecting or demanding detractors of my POV to do the same. The reason being can be summed up in the term "free will". You can research it with this:http://www.google.com
Thankee.
Anyhoo, I'd like to clear up a few things:
1. I don't possess any magical powers that inflict cancer (pancreatic, or otherwise) on anyone at my will. Therefore your two sacred cows are most likely safe and sound from the Big C.
2. Speaking of sacred cows--I find it immensely interesting that outspoken iconoclasts TP & MS are considered off limits from satire let alone criticism (except by religious fundamentalists) not just on the internet, but ANYWHERE without a group of idolatrous fanatics crying bloody murder--kind of like those fanatics who objected to T & M's treatment of The Prophet Mohamed--for which William Shatner once uttered: "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." (However pre-middle school level pettiness is a strong trait of most "SP" fans as well as those involved in the making of "SP"--in short: they're pretty brazen about doling out abuse, but not being gracious when it's shot back at them. Read: hypocrisy^1,000,000,000)
3. If you're looking for hypocrisy from "SP" look no further than the episodes: "Kenny's Dead" (which advocated stem cell research) and later "Krazy Kripples" (which did a 180 on the issue even so far as condemning Christopher Reeve for having the gall to want to regain mobility with the help of the aforementioned stem cells). Or, there's the oh-so-famous "Trapped in the Closet" which mercilessly slams one group's religion, while later on, the two-parter "Go-God-Go" (which chides people for "being a dick to other people's religion"). These are just two examples of Trey and Matt's longstanding 'bob and weave' policy of "not really meaning what we say, until we say we mean it, and then *possibly* until we backtrack to point A and then rip people for doing the exact same thing." Essentially using "Irony as an Insurance Policy" a.k.a. "The Pop Culture-Commentating Pussy's Best Friend".
4. If you respond to a so-called troll's post (or someone who you perceive/accuse of being such), outside of asking them to stop, then you have ABSOLUTELY *NO* MORAL HIGH GROUND TO STAND ON NOR IN WHINING ABOUT IT.
5. And lastly:
a) my request for those who agreed with my position to spread this meme-style around the internet is *not* seriously meant to take down Comedy Central's Biggest Show Ever (are you guy's frigging serious?) It is meant, and only meant, to flip some long overdue crap at Trey and Matt and their vastly overrated creation.
b) I wasn't expecting or demanding detractors of my POV to do the same. The reason being can be summed up in the term "free will". You can research it with this:http://www.google.com
Thankee.
Last edited by PatD; 07-29-10 at 01:30 AM.
07-29-10, 02:29 AM
#71
DVD Talk Legend
Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
Sorry, I've been away for awhile.
Anyhoo, I'd like to clear up a few things:
1. I don't possess any magical powers that inflict cancer (pancreatic, or otherwise) on anyone at my will. Therefore your two sacred cows are most likely safe and sound from the Big C.
2. Speaking of sacred cows--I find it immensely interesting that outspoken iconoclasts TP & MS are considered off limits from satire let alone criticism (except by religious fundamentalists) not just on the internet, but ANYWHERE without a group of idolatrous fanatics crying bloody murder--kind of like those fanatics who objected to T & M's treatment of The Prophet Mohamed--for which William Shatner once uttered: "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." (However pre-middle school level pettiness is a strong trait of most "SP" fans as well as those involved in the making of "SP"--in short: they're pretty brazen about doling out abuse, but not being gracious when it's shot back at them. Read: hypocrisy^1,000,000,000)
3. If you're looking for hypocrisy from "SP" look no further than the episodes: "Kenny's Dead" (which advocated stem cell research) and later "Krazy Kripples" (which did a 180 on the issue even so far as condemning Christopher Reeve for having the gall to want to regain mobility with the help of the aforementioned stem cells). Or, there's the oh-so-famous "Trapped in the Closet" which mercilessly slams one group's religion, while later on, the two-parter "Go-God-Go" (which chides people for "being a dick to other people's religion"). These are just two examples of Trey and Matt's longstanding 'bob and weave' policy of "not really meaning what we say, until we say we mean it, and then *possibly* until we backtrack to point A and then rip people for doing the exact same thing." Essentially using "Irony as an Insurance Policy" a.k.a. "The Pop Culture-Commentating Pussy's Best Friend".
4. If you respond to a so-called troll's post (or someone who you perceive/accuse of being such), outside of asking them to stop, then you have ABSOLUTELY *NO* MORAL HIGH GROUND TO STAND ON NOR IN WHINING ABOUT IT.
5. And lastly:
a) my request for those who agreed with my position to spread this meme-style around the internet is *not* seriously meant to take down Comedy Central's Biggest Show Ever (are you guy's frigging serious?) It is meant, and only meant, to flip some long overdue crap at Trey and Matt and their vastly overrated creation.
b) I wasn't expecting or demanding detractors of my POV to do the same. The reason being can be summed up in the term "free will". You can research it with this:http://www.google.com
Thankee.
Anyhoo, I'd like to clear up a few things:
1. I don't possess any magical powers that inflict cancer (pancreatic, or otherwise) on anyone at my will. Therefore your two sacred cows are most likely safe and sound from the Big C.
2. Speaking of sacred cows--I find it immensely interesting that outspoken iconoclasts TP & MS are considered off limits from satire let alone criticism (except by religious fundamentalists) not just on the internet, but ANYWHERE without a group of idolatrous fanatics crying bloody murder--kind of like those fanatics who objected to T & M's treatment of The Prophet Mohamed--for which William Shatner once uttered: "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." (However pre-middle school level pettiness is a strong trait of most "SP" fans as well as those involved in the making of "SP"--in short: they're pretty brazen about doling out abuse, but not being gracious when it's shot back at them. Read: hypocrisy^1,000,000,000)
3. If you're looking for hypocrisy from "SP" look no further than the episodes: "Kenny's Dead" (which advocated stem cell research) and later "Krazy Kripples" (which did a 180 on the issue even so far as condemning Christopher Reeve for having the gall to want to regain mobility with the help of the aforementioned stem cells). Or, there's the oh-so-famous "Trapped in the Closet" which mercilessly slams one group's religion, while later on, the two-parter "Go-God-Go" (which chides people for "being a dick to other people's religion"). These are just two examples of Trey and Matt's longstanding 'bob and weave' policy of "not really meaning what we say, until we say we mean it, and then *possibly* until we backtrack to point A and then rip people for doing the exact same thing." Essentially using "Irony as an Insurance Policy" a.k.a. "The Pop Culture-Commentating Pussy's Best Friend".
4. If you respond to a so-called troll's post (or someone who you perceive/accuse of being such), outside of asking them to stop, then you have ABSOLUTELY *NO* MORAL HIGH GROUND TO STAND ON NOR IN WHINING ABOUT IT.
5. And lastly:
a) my request for those who agreed with my position to spread this meme-style around the internet is *not* seriously meant to take down Comedy Central's Biggest Show Ever (are you guy's frigging serious?) It is meant, and only meant, to flip some long overdue crap at Trey and Matt and their vastly overrated creation.
b) I wasn't expecting or demanding detractors of my POV to do the same. The reason being can be summed up in the term "free will". You can research it with this:http://www.google.com
Thankee.
You've also made it abundantly clear that you only watch the show in order to criticize it on an internet forum. That says much more about you then it does a simple TV show.
07-29-10, 02:58 AM
#72
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
I find it funny that you accuse TP and MS of "bobbing and weaving" while all you're doing is coming back to repost pretty much exactly what you said in your first post all while "bobbing and weaving" any comments against your position.
You've also made it abundantly clear that you only watch the show in order to criticize it on an internet forum. That says much more about you then it does a simple TV show.
You've also made it abundantly clear that you only watch the show in order to criticize it on an internet forum. That says much more about you then it does a simple TV show.
07-29-10, 03:02 AM
#73
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
Both satire and criticism are great tools when deconstructing popular media if done correctly... you did neither well which is why everyone is jumping over what you said. Had you simply stated an opinion you would have been just fine, instead you decided to add weight to that opinion by producing facts without merit. If one says "I don't care much for this current president" you are in the clear... but if one says "I don't care much for this president because he's a socialist" then I'll presume you don't really know what a socialist is and then I'll make fun of you. If the facts are on your side (liberal agenda) you are again fine; but if they are not (he's not a US citizen) you then get blasted apart.
And were are not looking for hypocrisy in South Park, we are looking for it in you. South Park never made any claims about you while you on the other hand made many claims about it. Just recently you talked about them jumping sides when in your first post you accused them of having a fixed political agenda. Everyone else here points out that they go after everyone (including friends, mentors and those groups they agree with ideologically) and this someone proves your case even further. Feels like a simply ad hoc fix to the glaring problem in your original post.
I'm not sure anyone did ask you to stop. It's more like a forum contest where people enjoy labeling a troll; like a license plate game kids play on long road trips. Most of the moral outrage was over the fact that you seethed such hated while at the same time denouncing their morality... like bombing an abortion clinic because they don't treat life as sacred.
The argument in itself is a moot point because your points have persuaded nobody (which is odd because when you brings "facts" to the table one side has to concede defeat if the two points are in opposition... unless one of the two sides cherry-picks the evidence they use and discounts the rest) and everyone here has only gotten you to change your argument's delivery system (but not it's conclusion). It is almost as if you already reached a conclusion and you are working backwards to make the South Park world fit into that mold.
And were are not looking for hypocrisy in South Park, we are looking for it in you. South Park never made any claims about you while you on the other hand made many claims about it. Just recently you talked about them jumping sides when in your first post you accused them of having a fixed political agenda. Everyone else here points out that they go after everyone (including friends, mentors and those groups they agree with ideologically) and this someone proves your case even further. Feels like a simply ad hoc fix to the glaring problem in your original post.
I'm not sure anyone did ask you to stop. It's more like a forum contest where people enjoy labeling a troll; like a license plate game kids play on long road trips. Most of the moral outrage was over the fact that you seethed such hated while at the same time denouncing their morality... like bombing an abortion clinic because they don't treat life as sacred.
The argument in itself is a moot point because your points have persuaded nobody (which is odd because when you brings "facts" to the table one side has to concede defeat if the two points are in opposition... unless one of the two sides cherry-picks the evidence they use and discounts the rest) and everyone here has only gotten you to change your argument's delivery system (but not it's conclusion). It is almost as if you already reached a conclusion and you are working backwards to make the South Park world fit into that mold.
07-29-10, 03:08 AM
#74
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Re: "South Park" Deconstructed
