Shannon Nutt

A few pages back, I posted how I was expecting more of a "Prisoner"-like ending to Lost, given that the producers cited that series as one of their inspirations for Lost. After reading more and more posts complaining about why we didn't get answers, I think maybe they did give us a "Prisoner"-like ending.

I mean in that series, did we ever find out who ran the Village? Why they kidnapped Six? Why Six resigned? Etc.? No, Patrick MacGoohan wound up giving us an allegory, which is exactly what we got on Lost (albeit a religous one, instead of a social one).

I mean seriously guys - the "answers" we DID get to various questions were kind of disappointing, weren't they? I like the fact that a lot of this was left to our imaginations. In fact, I could have done without the Jacob/MiB backstory altogether - which was clearly the entire series' low-point.

maxfisher

I'm not going to transcribe the whole thing, but here are the questions from the first minute of the video.

1. Why did the monster kill the pilot?
2. What did Locke see when he first saw the smoke?
3. What's with the polar bear in Walt's comic?
4. Where's Christian Shephard's body?
5. Why did the psychic freak out on Claire raising her baby and being on O815?
6. Why did the Others want Walt?
7. Who sent Kate the letter about her mom having cancer?
8. How does Walt know about the hatch and why does he warn Locke about it?
9. Why does the Smoke Monster make mechanical sounds?
10. How does Walt apparate before Shannon?
11. How does Walt use the Swan computer to talk to Michael?
12. What's up with Kate's horse?
13. Why are Dharma supplies being dropped on the island and by who?
14. Why do black lights go on when the hatch locks down?
15. What happened to Henry Gale?
16. What happened to Libby between the mental ward and O815?
17. Who built the statue?
18. Why does only one bearing get you off the island?
19. What are the hieroglyphics on the countdown timer about?
20. Why did the others wear costumes?
21. Who was Libby's husband that gave her a boat to give to Desmond?
22. Where did the skeletons in the polar bear cave come from?

You can argue about relative importance and I'd agree that quite a few of these are really trivial and are nothing to get hung up on. There are quite a few, though, that just point to lazy, manipulative writing. I bolded the ones that I thought were either instances of the writers making something really important and then abandoning it or later revealing information that made something not make sense or just be ridiculous.

HE Pennypacker

Agreed.

But that latest post isn't mine. Found it someplace else.

TheKing

OK, I'll bite:

1) To instill fear and trepidation into the new arrivals. Smokey picked the guy that most would have seen as the de facto leader. Jack and Kate were candidates and thus could not be killed by Smokey.
2) It doesn't matter what he saw. In the end it was more what Smokey saw in Locke that mattered.
3) It wasn't Walt's comic, it was Hurley's. It's coincidence.
4) It fell out of the coffin during the crash. Smokey came across it and was thus able to shape shift into it.
5) Claire had to be on 815 to get Kate to come back on Ajira 316. Kate had to come back to help get the rest back, especially Jack, Hurley and Ben.
6) Walt was a pawn to get Jack. The others also viewed children as special due to the fertility problems. Obviously Walt wasn't that special as he was let off the island so Ben could have surgery.
7) Unimportant.
8) Walt had some sort of psychic ability, but wasn't really developed yet. Probably had a feeling that
9) Unimportant after we found out what smokey actually was.
10) Smokey stirring up trouble, as that lead to Shannon being shot.
11) We don't know it was Walt using the computer. Could have been the others as part of their plan to get Jack.
12) Smokey can tap into people's feelings and thoughts and project them.
13) Those running Dharma in the outside world realized how important the hatch job was and continued to make supplies to sustain it.
14) Honestly? Really? This is looked at as a major unanswered question?
15) He died. Ben was able to use it.
16) She recovered after the death of her husband.
17) The island had many visitors over time. They built things. The temple, Dharma, the statue. The island drew people there, and at the same time some of these people found it to be the greatest thing ever and wanted to honor it (Like Locke). The statue showed the island has been this way for a long time.
18) The magnetic powers of the island. The fact the island could "move."
19) They translated to "Press the fucking button". Seriously, if you see a countdown clock that suddenly shows a picture of an eye and a bird it's time to get those numbers in and press the button.
20) Answered in the show. They disguised themselves to hide the fact that they were living a rather comfortable existence in the middle of the island. Besides, we learned there was a group of others who always dressed that way. The others had a group of science (Dharmaville) and a group of faith (Temple)
21) Unimportant. This is one of those questions where people just expected it to be someone connected to the island.
22) Building that wheel and its experiments were probably not done under the safest conditions.

Meglos

This guy gives (I think) a pretty good response to that stupid (I think) College Humor video.

It's a bit long to transcribe.

Christ Almighty, people, calm down...

superdeluxe

The concert dress was way to slutty for heaven!!

Meglos

As someone who watched (and loved) both the Wire and Lost, I have to laugh. Both shows had compelling (and not so compelling characters :cough:Kate:cough: ). Comparing both shows is like comparing apples and boxing gloves.

suziq999

Just in case this hasn't been answered- those are hanger straps. So even strapless dresses can be "sold on a hanger". They usually are tucked down inside the bodice of the dress when worn. No continuity flaw there, sorry.

spainlinx0

My point was that this show was not character driven. The characters were there to further the plot. There were some nice character moments, but let's be honest, that wasn't what this show was about for the past 5 seasons.

In the first season there was a balance between character and plot. That hasn't been the case for a long time. So can we please not rewrite history now because some people get to think about meeting their family and friends in purgatory?

GreenMonkey

I think making the sideways storyline and going "oh, it's the afterlife" was dishonest. Yes, because in the afterlife, you spend it running from the law (Kate) or drinking yourself into oblivion (Charlie) or trying to find an adoptive mother for your baby (Claire). If they wanted a warm and fuzzy ending, it could have been done better without spending all season pretending to be something else...like telling us what precisely was going on with the Whidmore vs Ben dynamic that they spent a good season or so on.

To me the church scene is disjointed and is like a sudden deux ex machina kind of resolution - "oops, ignore the rest of the season, people is what matter and the afterlife is awesome".

Replacement ending: take out all of the sideways stuff in the last season. Or leave it, and it remains with some other explanation (like - what happened if the Island didn't exist and they never met Jacob). Spend time explaining a few other unresolved plot threads instead. When Jack dies on the island, fade to black and go to the church. Insert sentimental flashbacks here. There, warm and fuzzy without taking the emotion out of the main storyline and wasting time on fictional afterlife lives that don't matter anyway.
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Jnuke

More or less correct. I think Kate would have felt a little weird wearing the sexy black dress in the church. Once she realized that this was a world that they were creating themselves, she was probably able to change her clothes with a thought.

Flave

Yeah, the other weird thing about that scene was when Boone said he had had a real hard time getting Shannon there from Australia. WTF?! Purgatory has long security lines at its airports too?

superdeluxe

Maybe she just wasn't ready to enter the sideways afterlife world yet.

Larry C.

On an unrelated note. What's the longest thread ever on dvdtalk? Cause this one is gonna challenge.

ATX

lol, that shit is kinda funny ...

Kelkee

Its about making choices. Even when they died they had to come to the realization that the time they spent on the island meant something special. It was each ones defining moment in their own lives. It was Desmond's role to show them that so they could choose to move on or stay in limbo.

Its a unique and moving way of interpreting whats after life.

As for Ben and Widmore what more do you need? They were both selfish, greedy, and both knew the island was special and were fighting for its powers, just as Jacob's Mom said that this battle has been going on for a long long time and will continue to. Its just one battle in a long line of battles for power over the island.

Or you can sum up LOST up as follows (spoiled for size):

Goat3001

I'll bite too.
1. Not important. It was either to scare the castaways or to kill off the one person that would be able to figure out a way to fly them off the island.

2. I don't remember this scene. I don't see how it's relevant though.

3. I don't see why "coincidence" can't be a good answer for this.

4. Taken by MIB so he could take over the body. I'm not going to say that the writers knew all along what would happen. I'm on the boat that believes that they always wanted it to end in purgatory but had to switch gears because too many people called it. So I think originally, Christian was supposed to be "alive" because all the losties were dead. They changed direction and made it so that MIB was Christian. Which is why Christian's body is missing but Locke's was in the coffin.

5. I haven't seen the episode in awhile from season 1. But maybe the psychic meant the whole time that if Claire didn't raise Aaron that it would be HER that would be in danger. Which is how it ended up playing out. She didn't get to raise Aaron so she went crazy.

6. The biggest issue with the show. They couldn't find a way to work around Walt's puberty and they just killed his storyline.

7. I don't remember this.

8. See #6.

9. Seriously? This shouldn't be a question.

10. See #6

11. See #6.

12. I don't remember this either. Maybe I'm purposefully blocking out all of Kate's stuff.

13. At the time I thought it was a simple answer. The Dharma people that were in the mainland still assumed that Desmond was pressing the button. So they kept giving him more supplies. I don't remember much else from the incident though.

14. Trivial.

15. Trivial but my assumption was that Henry died just like his wife did and the others took the body so Ben could pose as Henry. Or another possibility, which was possibly negated by the show but I don't remember, is that there was no Henry Gail and the Others planted the parachute and the grave.

16. At the time, we were obviously looking at a flashback that was going to be explained if Libby didn't go out and get herself arrested. But I think they changed pace in season 6 and made it seem that what we saw in season 2 was actually a "flash sideways" and it was our first glimpse of their "created world".

17. I love this one. Probably the most trivial question that people were so hung up on. The statue was there just to show us that there had been people on the island for a very long time and it was foreshadowing Jacob's home. That's all that matters. It's funny because people would have cried foul if they did the whole "shadow of the statue" thing without showing us the statue beforehand. People would have said they were making it up as they go along and that it wouldn't make sense that the Losties had never seen it before now.

18. I don't remember this, but I think it's from when Michael and Walt left. I think it was Jacobs/MIBs way of keeping people on the island. They gave the one bearing that would let the others off the island so that they could leave freely since they weren't candidates but they were helping Jacob find the candidate.

19. No idea. Same reason why the statue was a Egyptian God. The show is spiritual and they liked throwing in random spiritual ideas on the show.

20. I don't remember this.

21. I don't remember this either.

22. I don't remember this either.

Elpresidentepez

I disagree. The enitre sideways universe, for better or worse, was not a deux ex machina. They clearly had it planned out all season (maybe earlier), there were hints in the first scenes of the season.

The way I look at it, the sideways universe is a extended epilogue to a five and half season story. You certainly don't have to like it, as a storytelling device it had some highs and lows, but it is what it is. The story of the island ended with Jack sacrificing himself to save the island and his friends (and possibly the world). The sideways universe is a way to provide closure to the spiritual elements of the series, which have been prevalent from the beginning.

As far getting all of the answers, the writers of Lost are very talented, but they've always been terrible at giving straight answers ("Those whispers you've been hearing, ghosts or something."), but I think there's enough information that the audience can make reasonable assumptions about what the island is and it's history.

The more I think about it, the more I liked the finale. I think if they focused on answers in the last moments, I would have been disappointed, the analyzing of Lost has been half the fun, and now that doesn't have to end. I will be disappointed if the DVD gives us a bunch of tacked on answers.

superfro

I'm trying to understand how you wouldn't find that video funny in any way if you find those "responses" "funny"?

I love how a bunch of folks are taking that College Humor video 100% serious. Like everything the guy brings up is a valid question that he absolutely needed answered. Spoiler - the website has "Humor" in the title.

Elpresidentepez

Yeah, but the "humor" should always be in quotations.

Ayre

All flash forward / backwards / sideways are 100% character driven. The island plots were a series of mechanics to set up the flashes. The flashes have always been the core of the show and often comprised more show time than the island.

I never understood the weekly dissection threads. Obsessing over every book, symbol or number. Did the producers mess with those people? They sure did. Did they get me? Sure, I still feel a little miffed at two season of time travel. My guess is the people that were watching for all the little puzzles, really didn't care a lot about the flashes and that why they were disappointed in the finale.

Maybe, this was two different shows and in one of the shows the audience got burned.

I think the poll reveals the level of satisfaction that the readers have with the finale. I am curious as to why the postings are in stark contrast to the poll.

superfro

Humor is subjective, but it should denote tone and intent.


More often than not the unhappy are the vocal majority.

Michael Corvin

Two HUGE here.

The end of the show was Jack rescuing his friends. The sideways/church ending is more or less a "where are they now" type thing. They didn't have to do that at all, but it was kinda cool tying them into every episode this season.

bunkaroo

Out of the dozen or so people I know who watch Lost, honestly, none of them liked the finale. There were varying degrees of dislike, but no one felt satisfied. I find it perplexing so many here did like it.

Slumbering Fist

Hilarious, the ol' "blame the audience" routine. Yep, people should just watch tv blindly never asking for answers to questions a show raises. Stupid, stupid, people. If the argument is that all that stuff was peripheral, then guess what, the show wasted a lot of time and energy with nonsense.

I say that speaking and someone who loves ambiguity and would be fine with none of LOST's major questions being answered. My problem is "mysteries" became part of the writers bag of tricks, many being bogus and contradictory and in the end distracting from, as the article says, the "heart" of the show.