outlander78

I don't mean close down the series, just don't end of a cliffhanger. Many long-running series do just fine without cliffhangers - Murder She Wrote, Law & Order, The Simpsons, and several great sitcoms all had long runs without cliff-hangers. Against that, Veronica Mars was ruined for me by its final cliff-hanger, and after that I stopped watching series until I knew they wrapped up on a positive note. I'm just starting on Monk now, for example.

Maybe I'm the only one, but these fringe cases having cliff-hangers may be the reason they are on the fringe - who wants to invest in a longshot?

TGM

qft.

Can't say I really care all that much about Laverne ( LOL! ) Winston at this point....

Chew

Over the last three episodes:

8.2mil
7.7mil
7.2mil

Not a good trend for renewal hopes.

Toonview

He was also on Weeds last season and an episode of Community just a few weeks ago. Always great to see the old guys get some work!

Dr. DVD

It's doing better than Dollhouse did. I tend to notice series that have a niche audience that is somewhat geek-centric and loyal never seem to look good to network execs. I wonder if this show had larger ratings but a survey of the average viewer found (hypothetically speaking, not factuall) they were mostly lower-income, service industry workers who drive 10 year old cars if that would hurt it?

DJariya

You better pray that Kevin Reilly, FOX's Entertainment President, loves this show to death. Last night's season finale got a 1.9 in the 18-49 demographic, which is the most important number. That's not good.

But, like I was saying earlier, FOX doesn't have any action dramas skewing towards the male viewer now that Prison Break is over and 24 is ending. I think this can fill that mode if they give it another chance.

mikehunt

with the previous Chance showing up I'd say it's highly possible
as unlikely as it would have been I kept expecting the guard that was left with the current chance to take off their mask and reveal that they were actually Catherine and then she'd release Chance and that's how they'd escape

Deftones

Loved the episode. I, too, thought Katherine may have not been on the boat and may still be alive. Absolutely loved they brought Baptiste back!

Hopefully, it gets renewed, and we get to see more of Baptiste. I love the dynamic between James and Valley.

bmoney1023

Good episode but, like others, I didn't think the cliffhanger was all that big. It was good seeing Tim Omundson from Psych as the bad guy. I don't know why they didn't actually show Katherine getting killed other than her still being alive. I think she's still alive but like Gunde said, I'm not sure what she's been doing the last 6 years if she is.

Quatermass

I recognized him from Deadwood and Jericho, but I've never seen Psych. I'll have to check that out. I like him - he's got a great "narrator" voice.

outlander78

This is why I hate cliff-hangers - they relegate good series to the scrap heap. Who wants to re-watch something on DVD that was never completed?

Dr. DVD

I thought Human Target got 7.2 million, not 1.9. Bear in mind I know nothing about how to read rating #s. Also, I thought I heard this show was popular in the 18-49 demographic.

bmoney1023

You should definitely check out Psych then. He's the jerk detective who doesn't believe the main character is really psychic. He's great in it and is one of the best/funniest characters IMO.

DJariya

It got 7.2M overall viewers, but that doesn't mean squat to advertisers. The 18-49 demographic numbers can range from anywhere from 0 to as high as 10 during the normal TV season. That's the numbers that advertisers look at to see if people in that age group ,who they covet are watching their commercials and are the ones paying FOX to keep Human Target on the air. Usually anything below 3.0 is considered bad.

Shamus McAnally

I really liked the episode. The back story, with how Chance got his name, was really good, while leaving any other back story (name) still filled in. (Although, it seems, according to his story, his real name would not have mattered, not the name he was called by everyone before he was "Jr.", so as of now, there's nothing really there. It's not a stretch, though, that they could build that in to a future story.)

As soon as I saw the boat, my first thought was "She wasn't there; she's still alive." That could be good for Chance, but could also be cause for a rift between he and Winston.

The cliffhanger was pretty good, as far as I saw it, for setting up a season 2. Maybe nothing Earth-shattering, but a nifty little twist that should reveal some more back story and should add some good story for next season.

Now it's just up to Fox not to drop yet another ball.

(I know they need quantifiable numbers to be able to make decisions, but in this day and age especially, I can't believe they count advertiser key groups so much. I rarely, if ever, watch, let alone am influenced by, commercials. I guess, in their minds, I'm in the minority on that subject.)

Dr. DVD

So where do they get the 0 to 10 ratings #s? You make it sound like a series that gets maybe 10 million viewers (let's speculate 3/4 come from DVR, as that's what I do with all of my shows) a week stands less of a chance at renewal than one with 5 million viewers that all watch live.

Seems like Fox's philosophy is "if you want your shows to stay on the air, you better watch live and sit through the stupid ads."

FWIW, I DVR all of my shows as I HATE watching ads. Guess that might explain why so many of my favorites get canned.

DJariya

No your confusing what I was trying to point out. Human Target has been averaging around 8M overall viewers a week (estimated), but the 18-49 demographic, which is most important number, it gets around 2-2.5 for the 1st 11 episodes. Any show that gets under 3.0 in the 18-49 demographic is considered in danger of getting cancelled.

A show could get 15M overall viewers a week, but if the 18-49 numbers suck, then it's in trouble.

This episode of Human Target got 1.9 in the 18-49 demo, which is very bad for an expensive scripted show.

It's not just FOX's philosophy, every network wants you to watch shows live with commercials. TV networks actually hate the DVR.

As for the ratings numbers, select Americans are chosen by Nielsen (the company that gets these numbers) to put a Nielsen box in their home. Since not every American has one, Nielsen relies on estimates on the ratings to provide the networks. I believe the people in the home have to input their sex, age when they watch a certain show into the box.

If you do have a Nielsen box and own a DVR, your viewership will still count within 7 days of the show airing if you watch it with commercials. But, the again that defeats the purpose of having a DVR.

It sucks and all these numbers are confusing for the avarage viewer, but that's how the TV business works.

Dr. DVD

I think I finally get what you're saying. A show can get a lot of viewers, but if most of those viewers are do not fit a network's key demographic (read people with money to spend), it's not considered important.

So in essence, a show can get canned because it draws the wrong demographic. Makes you wonder how wrestling stays on the air. That does suck.


Oh well. If it gets canned, we can always try to pull a Serenity....

DJariya

Yup, I think you finally got it.

Another good example was the CBS show The Unit. It was averaging around 10-11M viewers a week and that sounds awesome. However, the average age of it's viewers was 55 years old....out of the coveted 18-49 demo, so it got the axe.

resinrats

So in a Nielson member has to put in data every time they watch a show? That has to get annoying. Do they account for multiple people in the family watching the show (some out side the desired range & some inside). I can see their numbers getting distored depending if a certain person puts in their info if even if a person in the desired demo is watching. For example Human Target. The parents, 30 something watch & love the show but their 14 year old kid is the one that puts in his info. Right there, 2 desired people are watching but the channel thinks just some 14 year old non-$$ spender is watching.

Dr. DVD

My family was a Nielsen family while I was in college, and they used to call me to ask what stuff to put down as they didn't watch as much TV as I did. Needless to say, X-Files got a lot of support from us!

Sucks that the current ratings system makes it to where a show could have many viewers but still get canned. Seems like the electoral college, where a candidate can win the popular vote but lose the presidency, or be awarded it due to a biased Supreme Court. Not that I'm getting at anything....

wmansir

Nielsen has two main sampling methods.

The overnights are calculated from households with special set top boxes that record what time and channel the TV is used for. These devices also allow each individual family member to indicate when they are watching. There are only a few thousand of these units and they are concentrated in the major TV markets.

For "Sweeps", each year Nielsen sends out millions of paper diaries and has respondents fill out what they watched.

wearetheborg

As a fan of Psych, it was kinda hard to buy Omundson as a badass.

Superman07

This had to of been the best episode of the series.

I think that transition from coffee cup to coffee cup was one of the most seamless I've ever seen - nice direction and editing.

I'm in the group who think Winston saved Catherine and Chance doesn't know.

Baptiste back. Feel like you'd get a lot more from watching that episode.

I really hope that this comes back for a second season. I'm still pissed over Valley and Keen Eddie.

mphtrilogy

I hope it will get renewed, really enjoy this show.

Loved the fight scene between Chase and Guerrero, he is a compelling character.