johnnysd

johnnysd

It is the PERFECT time to misdirect us on Jacob/MIB to set up a great, satisfying twist in the final episode. To this point, we have seen a lot of manipulation by Jacob, but MIB has been very blunt and straightforward for the most part. I think that they may have truly answered the question in the beginning and Jacob is the devil just as MIB said. After all, he flat out told Richard he was the black smoke.

Groucho

MIB was just playing to Richard's own religious beliefs when he referred to Jacob as The Devil. You'll notice he doesn't use that same tactic with modern day recruits.

pinata242

Going back to season 3 (I think), we got subliminal messages like this in Dharma videos:



We also had that scene where Karl (Alex's boyfriend) was being brainwashed with essentially the same messages.

"God ... loved Jacob" implies God no longer loves Jacob. Question is, is it possible for "God" to stop loving? If so, what type of creature would he cease to love?

DVD Josh

...as he loved his only son.

The love is merely temporal. It's not that he stopped loving anyone, just they aren't around any more to love.

Drop

There is no way Jacob is evil, especially if don't think MIB is evil. At worst they are equally bad entities.

But if you go the Judeo-Christian angle, Jacob is clearly the good and MIB evil. The writers could just be trying to confuse us with that angle, but if not then they have laid their cards out pretty clearly at this point.

DVD Josh

Even the Devil himself is not "all bad".

chuckd21

As a dirty sinner myself, I'd much rather hang out with the devil and have some fun than with God and have to behave myself.

extreme2700

That is what makes me not trust what they seem to be pointing out. If there's one thing that this series has taught me it's that you can't trust what's plainly pointed out.

As for me I just think the whole He's Good, He's evil thing is just too simplistic. That being said, I'm enjoying the show quite a bit, pretty anxious to see how things turn out in the end.

DthRdrX

It's still debatable. I'm still weighing in on the side of both of them being good and evil, much like the other main characters.

If we are to take everything thrown at us here at face value, and Jacob is 100% good, i'm going to predict that Widmore is working with MiB all along.

Consider: Ben claimed he was not the leader at the time of the Purge. The purge would probably piss Jacob off if he was truely the good guy. Widmore gets booted from the island after the purge. He doesn't come back until MiB kills Jacob.

OTOH, Jacob didn't seem to know what the hell he was doing bringing the Black Rock to the island.

1.) His statue was destroyed.
2.) Looks like the people he chose to bring to the island, whomever they may be, died asap upon arrival.
3.) The only known survivor, Richard, is a guy Jacob doesn't even seem to know!
4.) The 'Others' are born, and Richard picks two leaders that are pretty ruthless in their methods, Widmore and then Ben.
5.) Eventually Locke becomes the leader via MiB's manipulation of Richard and Ben.
6.) 'John Locke' aka MiB kills Jacob.

DthRdrX

Writers will give up the finale title sometime tonight at ew.com

BravesMG

I still come back to the idea that in the flash-sideways, no matter if Jacob or MiB is truly evil, that time line is the result of MiB being released and/or the island simply not being in play. And while all the Losties are having various levels of success and misery, Jack is the only one that is being physically affected by the change (IIRC). Either him not being on that island or that island not being a part of that time line is obviously causing a pretty large problem. I think he's going to end up being the one that the island selects to protect it, whatever that ends up to mean.

DthRdrX

I thought this was both true and interesting. Observation made by Vozzek69 on Darkufo.

andy434343

See, I view it opposite from you

1.) His statue was destroyed AND he didn't care, its just a statue.
2.) I think he knows Richard better than Richard knows himself, and Jacob probably knew that Richard was going to lose faith at some point, but that faith would be restored by someone on the island.
3.) It's true that some of the people on the island play there part in eventually causing Jacob to get killed through the manipulation of the MIB, BUT I think he knew this would happen, although he said that "He hoped it wouldn't happen"
4.) Even though Jacob is now dead, I feel he has already lined up all the "players" he needs, in the right place in order for the MIB to fail at escaping the island.

Groucho

We haven't seen the MIB pose as Jacob, but when he was using Christian's form he had no problem telling people that he spoke for Jacob.

dsa_shea

Then he can cornhole you with his red rod for a nightcap.

Cardiff Giant11

Good find wikipedia also had this image of Apep (in the form of the black snake).


Interesting parallels whether intentional or not.

Palaver

You're assuming that the MiB was the one posing as Christian. Claire made a clear distinction between the two earlier this season. Just sayin'

DthRdrX

1.) He seemed fairly pissed off to me, even after taking the knife from Richard.


"Look at my statue you ass! - Jacob to Richard"


2.) He didn't even know Richard's name.

3.) I agree that he realized that the MiB was dedicated to his cause, killing Jacob, and Jacob knew he needed a replacement eventually.

4.) Certainly a few hundred people died, as listed on the lighthouse wheel, before we could get to his final six candidates. Not very good percentages for a guy that knows what he is doing.

DthRdrX

No idea who MiB is. Here's a smaller version of the S5 picture. He certainly could be one of a few characters from Ancient History.



The monster is shown in direct opposition to Anubis, who is said to be the protector of the dead. Obviously, this refers to the MiB scanning people and stealing bodies for his own personal uses.

andy434343

That could be the first time that MIB used a person to try to kill Jacob, so maybe that's why he was pissed off.

Also if the evil leaves the island, like I said before, I feel that a lot more than a few hundred will die, maybe all humans will be killed seeing as MIB has shown his distaste in humans and thinks there is no good in them, except to be used of course.

DthRdrX

Maybe, but the island (cork) is on the ocean floor in the ALT. (An upside down cork on a bottle is in fact under water!)

Things look fairly well so far in the ALT. As a matter of fact, the ALT is pretty bare of ANYTHING supernatural going on, be it ghosts, whispers, monsters, or dead people walking around.

Well, the only exceptions are where Desmond went to on 815, could have been another seat, and how Hurley got out of his hummer in the first place.

mmconhea

just like the Texas education system.

DVD Josh

Thomas Jefferson posts on DVD Talk?

Draven

Jacob crashed the plane? I thought it was because Desmond didn't push the button.

If Jacob did it, why did the creators go to all the trouble of showing how important the button pressing was? Couldn't they have just introduced Jacob/MIB to us earlier?

And Jacob/MIB caused a tsunami to bring the Black Rock? I didn't get that at all, that they have the power to control those kinds of forces. If they are that powerful, couldn't they have caused a storm or tornado to bring the plane down? Why the theatrics with the hatch, Desmond, the numbers, etc?

Of course, the real reason is probably that Jacob/MIB didn't really exist as these characters until last season, so any "influence" they have on the show is merely a big retcon. After all, you don't have to actually SEE Jacob/MIB to see their influences, so it's pretty easy to just shoehorn them in to every major moment in LOST since the pilot.