NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
01-29-10, 04:46 PM
#901
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
On the streets that I grew up the way Conan acted was being a pussy.
Last edited by wm lopez; 01-30-10 at 05:56 AM.
01-29-10, 04:51 PM
#902
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
After Jay's show premiered on Sept 14, Conan's numbers started to drop slightly, while Letterman's numbers grew from Sept 14 through October 1 (when he admitted to the affairs). After that, Conan and Letterman were for the most part neck-and-neck.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/25...-it-back/31467
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/30...deadlock/34780
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jay_Leno_Show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Sh...ber_21.2C_2009
Now here's a question, if Conan's ratings "stunk," how come Letterman still has a job, when his ratings have for years now been consistently at or below Conan's Tonight Show ratings?
01-29-10, 04:55 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
NBC bet that since Conan was good at midnight among young viewers the same way Letterman was way back when he would do just as fine on the new time slot. The TONIGHT SHOW viewers and midnight viewers are different type of viewers.
01-29-10, 05:52 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
You say that because I am not defending Conan and have taken Jay's side in a general sense. If I was assuming things of why Conan is Jesus come to save TSS from boring Jay if he was just given more time, then I'd get the applause.
I'm not allowed to believe whatever Jay, NBC says, etc. -- but it's ok to faithfully believe anything Conan writes up and says? I don't think so!
Like Leno (oh that evil man!) said on Oprah, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
This makes the most sense to me after reading everything here/there/everywhere about this whole situation: Conan was fighting for TSS and threatening to go to another network and complete against Leno/Letterman. NBC tells Leno he is out in 2009. Leno tries to keep TSS, NBC says no, thinking Leno will slip in the ratings by then anyway.
Leno stays #1 and Leno asks NBC to let him out of his contract (since they ended Leno's run on TSS before his contract expired). NBC says no we want to keep you and not have you now go somewhere and complete against Conan/Letterman. Leno signs on for the 10pm show because Leno still wants to be on TV and they threw all that money at him and he could keep his staff.
Both Leno and Conan's new shows suck. Leno isn't doing well at 10pm and Conan's audience from Late Night didn't follow him enough. NBC gets further in the hole of their already dying network. They say hey we can have the best of both worlds... we'll put Leno on again before Conan and reunite the dream team. Leno says OK because Leno still wants to be on TV. Conan says no because he doesn't want to move for the Leno.
NBC gets what it ultimately wants, Leno back on TSS, something they could have done by just letting Conan go and not giving him TSS in the first place.
That is how it plays out in my mind. Jay doesn't want to leave TSS, Conan desparately wanted TSS. NBC had no idea how to manage any of it.
I'm not allowed to believe whatever Jay, NBC says, etc. -- but it's ok to faithfully believe anything Conan writes up and says? I don't think so!
Like Leno (oh that evil man!) said on Oprah, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. This makes the most sense to me after reading everything here/there/everywhere about this whole situation: Conan was fighting for TSS and threatening to go to another network and complete against Leno/Letterman. NBC tells Leno he is out in 2009. Leno tries to keep TSS, NBC says no, thinking Leno will slip in the ratings by then anyway.
Leno stays #1 and Leno asks NBC to let him out of his contract (since they ended Leno's run on TSS before his contract expired). NBC says no we want to keep you and not have you now go somewhere and complete against Conan/Letterman. Leno signs on for the 10pm show because Leno still wants to be on TV and they threw all that money at him and he could keep his staff.
Both Leno and Conan's new shows suck. Leno isn't doing well at 10pm and Conan's audience from Late Night didn't follow him enough. NBC gets further in the hole of their already dying network. They say hey we can have the best of both worlds... we'll put Leno on again before Conan and reunite the dream team. Leno says OK because Leno still wants to be on TV. Conan says no because he doesn't want to move for the Leno.
NBC gets what it ultimately wants, Leno back on TSS, something they could have done by just letting Conan go and not giving him TSS in the first place.
That is how it plays out in my mind. Jay doesn't want to leave TSS, Conan desparately wanted TSS. NBC had no idea how to manage any of it.
There's nothing wrong with both Leno and Conan wanting the show. NBC is the stupid one because they couldn't live with the prospect of losing either of them.
01-29-10, 05:57 PM
#906
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
i knew Kimmel didn't like Jay. You could tell it by his comments.
01-29-10, 06:01 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
I think Carolla really did or maybe still does like Jay, but that does not necessarily mean that extends to Kimmel like some speculated in the past of this thread and the original thread. Surely everybody has had the experience of knowing two people who could not stand one another.
01-29-10, 06:05 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Here is a phenomenal piece on the Leno interview that really delves into the ratings and lead-in situation, as well as takes Leno to task on many of his "I didn't do it" comments. Way too long long to c&p, but worthy of a read, especially when Jay starts blaming Conan's rating as some people seem so excited to do:
http://blogs.kansascity.com/tvbarn/2.../oprahjay.html
http://blogs.kansascity.com/tvbarn/2.../oprahjay.html
01-29-10, 08:00 PM
#909
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01-29-10, 08:14 PM
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01-30-10, 01:38 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
I think Carolla really did or maybe still does like Jay, but that does not necessarily mean that extends to Kimmel like some speculated in the past of this thread and the original thread. Surely everybody has had the experience of knowing two people who could not stand one another.
Adam has no love for Conan because he is "unofficially banned" from appearing on Conan's shows.
And Adam has every motivation to kiss-up to Jay, but even his positive comments about Jay are subdued.
Adam describes Jay as someone who is obsessed with two things: cars and working. He says that Jay doesn't appear to have any friends and doesn't want any.
He says that whenever he is in Jay's company, they have something to talk about because they both collect cars --but that is the only thing Jay likes to talk about.
And when he talks about his experiences being a regular contributor on The Jay Leno Show, his description is of a place where everyone --including Jay, is making a half-assed effort, and is content to coast on easy material.
01-30-10, 04:40 AM
#913
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Listening to Adam on his podcast talk about the situation has been very enlightening.
Adam has no love for Conan because he is "unofficially banned" from appearing on Conan's shows.
And Adam has every motivation to kiss-up to Jay, but even his positive comments about Jay are subdued.
Adam describes Jay as someone who is obsessed with two things: cars and working. He says that Jay doesn't appear to have any friends and doesn't want any.
He says that whenever he is in Jay's company, they have something to talk about because they both collect cars --but that is the only thing Jay likes to talk about.
And when he talks about his experiences being a regular contributor on The Jay Leno Show, his description is of a place where everyone --including Jay, is making a half-assed effort, and is content to coast on easy material.
Adam has no love for Conan because he is "unofficially banned" from appearing on Conan's shows.
And Adam has every motivation to kiss-up to Jay, but even his positive comments about Jay are subdued.
Adam describes Jay as someone who is obsessed with two things: cars and working. He says that Jay doesn't appear to have any friends and doesn't want any.
He says that whenever he is in Jay's company, they have something to talk about because they both collect cars --but that is the only thing Jay likes to talk about.
And when he talks about his experiences being a regular contributor on The Jay Leno Show, his description is of a place where everyone --including Jay, is making a half-assed effort, and is content to coast on easy material.
Last edited by Boba Fett; 01-30-10 at 04:54 AM.
01-30-10, 05:59 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
His ratings were lower than when Jay hosted The Tonight Show, but he was still beating Letterman.
After Jay's show premiered on Sept 14, Conan's numbers started to drop slightly, while Letterman's numbers grew from Sept 14 through October 1 (when he admitted to the affairs). After that, Conan and Letterman were for the most part neck-and-neck.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/25...-it-back/31467
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/30...deadlock/34780
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jay_Leno_Show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Sh...ber_21.2C_2009
Now here's a question, if Conan's ratings "stunk," how come Letterman still has a job, when his ratings have for years now been consistently at or below Conan's Tonight Show ratings?
After Jay's show premiered on Sept 14, Conan's numbers started to drop slightly, while Letterman's numbers grew from Sept 14 through October 1 (when he admitted to the affairs). After that, Conan and Letterman were for the most part neck-and-neck.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/25...-it-back/31467
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/30...deadlock/34780
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jay_Leno_Show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Sh...ber_21.2C_2009
Now here's a question, if Conan's ratings "stunk," how come Letterman still has a job, when his ratings have for years now been consistently at or below Conan's Tonight Show ratings?
When is Dave's contract up?
If there is someone out there then CBS will not renew Dave and sign that person.
01-30-10, 06:48 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
If the stink of this whole mess is still on Leno when he goes back to the Tonight Show, and his ratings drop, how long will NBC give him? Can they really not cancel him ever without forfeiting $150 million?
01-30-10, 08:05 AM
#916
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
You can't claim it both ways and say ratings are everything and that's why Conan got pushed out but for everyone else they don't matter because "who would they get."
01-30-10, 08:09 AM
#917
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
If I remember correctly, the first season or so of Seinfeld didn't draw a large audience either. The show was against Home Improvement, and getting murdered. Lucky for Seinfeld that NBC didn't jump the gun on his show, or he wouldn't have a zillion dollars right now.
If the stink of this whole mess is still on Leno when he goes back to the Tonight Show, and his ratings drop, how long will NBC give him? Can they really not cancel him ever without forfeiting $150 million?
If the stink of this whole mess is still on Leno when he goes back to the Tonight Show, and his ratings drop, how long will NBC give him? Can they really not cancel him ever without forfeiting $150 million?
I'm speculating on the contract but they essentially would have had to negotiate a whole new contract with Jay. Let's hope they had more brains & balls in those negotiations. But I wouldn't be surprised if they have essentially guaranteed him that he gets to do The Tonight Show in perpetuity.
01-30-10, 08:14 AM
#918
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Let's remember that Conan was on the air for 3 months before Jay's show debut, and his ratings stunk then too, so the lead-in theory doesn't wash.
NBC, no question had a short leash for Conan, but if ratings are the be-all end-all, then shit like this happens.
ABC cancels shows after 1 episode. Not that late nite talk shows are on the same plane, but ratings ultimately rule.
Again, dont cry for Conan. He got an 'out of this world' settlement, and he got monies for his crew too. This is fantasy land settlements. People with 'real jobs' generally dont get squat.
NBC, no question had a short leash for Conan, but if ratings are the be-all end-all, then shit like this happens.
ABC cancels shows after 1 episode. Not that late nite talk shows are on the same plane, but ratings ultimately rule.
Again, dont cry for Conan. He got an 'out of this world' settlement, and he got monies for his crew too. This is fantasy land settlements. People with 'real jobs' generally dont get squat.
1) His show launched in summer which is not an ideal time. I'm sure they did it knowing audiences would be down and he'd have time to catch his stride with the new show. Still, networks don't typically launch shows in the summer.
2) How many loyal or former Jay fans simply decided to tune out for several months knowing he was coming back on the air soon? How many of those people would have watched Conan or given his show a shot if they thought or knew Jay was gone.
01-30-10, 12:37 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Because the numbers you linked to were not the overall ratings (where Letterman had a clear lead over Conan) but the 18-49 averages that networks typically focus on. The hypocrisy in NBC's position is that they initially claimed to only care about how Conan fared with the 18-49s. It was acknowledged that Conan would shed Leno viewers early on, but the trade-off would be a younger "Tonight Show" base. Once they made the decision to bring Leno back to 11:35, they suddenly seized on the overall numbers, ignoring that Conan was delivering his demo pretty well until Leno's 10:00 pm show capsized almost everything that followed him.
Last edited by thenewguy; 01-30-10 at 12:43 PM.
01-30-10, 01:07 PM
#920
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
If I remember correctly, the first season or so of Seinfeld didn't draw a large audience either. The show was against Home Improvement, and getting murdered. Lucky for Seinfeld that NBC didn't jump the gun on his show, or he wouldn't have a zillion dollars right now.
01-30-10, 02:44 PM
#921
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
01-30-10, 02:57 PM
#922
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
01-30-10, 02:59 PM
#923
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
01-30-10, 03:02 PM
#924
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Interesting, surprised Conan would get offended by something like that. I've been a fan of Adam since he and Jimmy were on the morning radio here in LA so I like supporting their endeavors, just surprised that he would support Jay.
01-30-10, 03:29 PM
#925
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
I don't think Conan has ever insulted his audience. He pokes fun at and with his audience but he has never called them names, especially not in a derogatory manner.