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NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

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NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Old 01-29-10, 04:46 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
At least Leno finally admitted he didn't want to retire in 2004 when Conan was given his job. Too bad he was too much of a pussy to man up and tell NBC he didn't want to leave the job.
True Jay didn't act like Conan did if you call that "man up".
On the streets that I grew up the way Conan acted was being a pussy.

Last edited by wm lopez; 01-30-10 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 01-29-10, 04:51 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by siddd5 View Post
Let's remember that Conan was on the air for 3 months before Jay's show debut, and his ratings stunk then too, so the lead-in theory doesn't wash.
His ratings were lower than when Jay hosted The Tonight Show, but he was still beating Letterman.

After Jay's show premiered on Sept 14, Conan's numbers started to drop slightly, while Letterman's numbers grew from Sept 14 through October 1 (when he admitted to the affairs). After that, Conan and Letterman were for the most part neck-and-neck.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/25...-it-back/31467
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/30...deadlock/34780

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jay_Leno_Show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Sh...ber_21.2C_2009

Now here's a question, if Conan's ratings "stunk," how come Letterman still has a job, when his ratings have for years now been consistently at or below Conan's Tonight Show ratings?
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Old 01-29-10, 04:55 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
And so when Oprah announces 7 months before that person's show starts that she's going to do a "different" show called The Winfrey Show one hour earlier than her old show it will still be the new person's sole fault for low ratings in the established time slot. Right?
The people viewers decide that. When Oprah took over the show here in Chicago it was called A.M. CHICAGO. Oprah hosted that show and the viewers loved her and they changed the name of the show. So the viewers decide.
NBC bet that since Conan was good at midnight among young viewers the same way Letterman was way back when he would do just as fine on the new time slot. The TONIGHT SHOW viewers and midnight viewers are different type of viewers.
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Old 01-29-10, 04:57 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Rosie O'Donnell on Ferguson talking about Jay-Conan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOzN7Nu4Tms
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Old 01-29-10, 05:52 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by nightwing82 View Post
You say that because I am not defending Conan and have taken Jay's side in a general sense. If I was assuming things of why Conan is Jesus come to save TSS from boring Jay if he was just given more time, then I'd get the applause.

I'm not allowed to believe whatever Jay, NBC says, etc. -- but it's ok to faithfully believe anything Conan writes up and says? I don't think so! Like Leno (oh that evil man!) said on Oprah, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

This makes the most sense to me after reading everything here/there/everywhere about this whole situation: Conan was fighting for TSS and threatening to go to another network and complete against Leno/Letterman. NBC tells Leno he is out in 2009. Leno tries to keep TSS, NBC says no, thinking Leno will slip in the ratings by then anyway.

Leno stays #1 and Leno asks NBC to let him out of his contract (since they ended Leno's run on TSS before his contract expired). NBC says no we want to keep you and not have you now go somewhere and complete against Conan/Letterman. Leno signs on for the 10pm show because Leno still wants to be on TV and they threw all that money at him and he could keep his staff.

Both Leno and Conan's new shows suck. Leno isn't doing well at 10pm and Conan's audience from Late Night didn't follow him enough. NBC gets further in the hole of their already dying network. They say hey we can have the best of both worlds... we'll put Leno on again before Conan and reunite the dream team. Leno says OK because Leno still wants to be on TV. Conan says no because he doesn't want to move for the Leno.

NBC gets what it ultimately wants, Leno back on TSS, something they could have done by just letting Conan go and not giving him TSS in the first place.

That is how it plays out in my mind. Jay doesn't want to leave TSS, Conan desparately wanted TSS. NBC had no idea how to manage any of it.
Actually, while most of what you say is probably right, Conan actually increased his audience from "Late Night" when he was hosting "The Tonight Show."

There's nothing wrong with both Leno and Conan wanting the show. NBC is the stupid one because they couldn't live with the prospect of losing either of them.
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Old 01-29-10, 05:57 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

i knew Kimmel didn't like Jay. You could tell it by his comments.
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Old 01-29-10, 06:01 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
i knew Kimmel didn't like Jay. You could tell it by his comments.
I think Carolla really did or maybe still does like Jay, but that does not necessarily mean that extends to Kimmel like some speculated in the past of this thread and the original thread. Surely everybody has had the experience of knowing two people who could not stand one another.
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Old 01-29-10, 06:05 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Here is a phenomenal piece on the Leno interview that really delves into the ratings and lead-in situation, as well as takes Leno to task on many of his "I didn't do it" comments. Way too long long to c&p, but worthy of a read, especially when Jay starts blaming Conan's rating as some people seem so excited to do:

http://blogs.kansascity.com/tvbarn/2.../oprahjay.html
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Old 01-29-10, 08:00 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by wm lopez View Post
True Jay didn't act like Conan did if call that "man up".
On the streets that I grew up the way Conan acted was being a pussy.


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Old 01-29-10, 08:14 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by dx23 View Post




Refresh my memory, which one of these Icy Hot chaps played college tennis?
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Old 01-29-10, 10:17 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

If I'm not mistaken, is the douche on the right.
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Old 01-30-10, 01:38 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Jimmy James View Post
I think Carolla really did or maybe still does like Jay, but that does not necessarily mean that extends to Kimmel like some speculated in the past of this thread and the original thread. Surely everybody has had the experience of knowing two people who could not stand one another.
Listening to Adam on his podcast talk about the situation has been very enlightening.

Adam has no love for Conan because he is "unofficially banned" from appearing on Conan's shows.
And Adam has every motivation to kiss-up to Jay, but even his positive comments about Jay are subdued.

Adam describes Jay as someone who is obsessed with two things: cars and working. He says that Jay doesn't appear to have any friends and doesn't want any.

He says that whenever he is in Jay's company, they have something to talk about because they both collect cars --but that is the only thing Jay likes to talk about.

And when he talks about his experiences being a regular contributor on The Jay Leno Show, his description is of a place where everyone --including Jay, is making a half-assed effort, and is content to coast on easy material.
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Old 01-30-10, 04:40 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Listening to Adam on his podcast talk about the situation has been very enlightening.

Adam has no love for Conan because he is "unofficially banned" from appearing on Conan's shows.
And Adam has every motivation to kiss-up to Jay, but even his positive comments about Jay are subdued.

Adam describes Jay as someone who is obsessed with two things: cars and working. He says that Jay doesn't appear to have any friends and doesn't want any.

He says that whenever he is in Jay's company, they have something to talk about because they both collect cars --but that is the only thing Jay likes to talk about.

And when he talks about his experiences being a regular contributor on The Jay Leno Show, his description is of a place where everyone --including Jay, is making a half-assed effort, and is content to coast on easy material.
Carolla has also been high with praise for Leno since Leno called him a half a year after one of Carolla's appearances and complimented "The Hammer." Apparently, Carolla was amazed Leno actually did keep his promise to check it out and from the call, it was obvious Leno really did watch it and liked it.

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Old 01-30-10, 05:59 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
His ratings were lower than when Jay hosted The Tonight Show, but he was still beating Letterman.

After Jay's show premiered on Sept 14, Conan's numbers started to drop slightly, while Letterman's numbers grew from Sept 14 through October 1 (when he admitted to the affairs). After that, Conan and Letterman were for the most part neck-and-neck.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/25...-it-back/31467
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/30...deadlock/34780

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jay_Leno_Show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Sh...ber_21.2C_2009

Now here's a question, if Conan's ratings "stunk," how come Letterman still has a job, when his ratings have for years now been consistently at or below Conan's Tonight Show ratings?
Who are they going to replace him with?
When is Dave's contract up?
If there is someone out there then CBS will not renew Dave and sign that person.
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Old 01-30-10, 06:48 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Jerry Seinfeld --one of Jay Leno's oldest and dearest friends, said that Conan's failure was Conan's fault because Conan didn't draw a large enough audience.
If I remember correctly, the first season or so of Seinfeld didn't draw a large audience either. The show was against Home Improvement, and getting murdered. Lucky for Seinfeld that NBC didn't jump the gun on his show, or he wouldn't have a zillion dollars right now.

If the stink of this whole mess is still on Leno when he goes back to the Tonight Show, and his ratings drop, how long will NBC give him? Can they really not cancel him ever without forfeiting $150 million?
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Old 01-30-10, 08:05 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by wm lopez View Post
Who are they going to replace him with?
When is Dave's contract up?
If there is someone out there then CBS will not renew Dave and sign that person.
The point is that you say the "people speak" and if that's the case then CBS would have fired Letterman 10 years ago because he's been losing the ratings war since 1995. Who would they get? Who knows but the point is they would try and find someone different if ratings were the end all be all like you claim they are.

You can't claim it both ways and say ratings are everything and that's why Conan got pushed out but for everyone else they don't matter because "who would they get."
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Old 01-30-10, 08:09 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Charlie Goose View Post
If I remember correctly, the first season or so of Seinfeld didn't draw a large audience either. The show was against Home Improvement, and getting murdered. Lucky for Seinfeld that NBC didn't jump the gun on his show, or he wouldn't have a zillion dollars right now.

If the stink of this whole mess is still on Leno when he goes back to the Tonight Show, and his ratings drop, how long will NBC give him? Can they really not cancel him ever without forfeiting $150 million?
Everyone knew Seinfeld would back Jay and he's grasping at the same straws that Jay & NBC are to try and explain it away. I like Seinfeld but he's a pretty conservative comedian himself. Plus he loves cares like Jay so they have a lot of commonalities.

I'm speculating on the contract but they essentially would have had to negotiate a whole new contract with Jay. Let's hope they had more brains & balls in those negotiations. But I wouldn't be surprised if they have essentially guaranteed him that he gets to do The Tonight Show in perpetuity.
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Old 01-30-10, 08:14 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by siddd5 View Post
Let's remember that Conan was on the air for 3 months before Jay's show debut, and his ratings stunk then too, so the lead-in theory doesn't wash.

NBC, no question had a short leash for Conan, but if ratings are the be-all end-all, then shit like this happens.

ABC cancels shows after 1 episode. Not that late nite talk shows are on the same plane, but ratings ultimately rule.

Again, dont cry for Conan. He got an 'out of this world' settlement, and he got monies for his crew too. This is fantasy land settlements. People with 'real jobs' generally dont get squat.
His ratings did drop but:

1) His show launched in summer which is not an ideal time. I'm sure they did it knowing audiences would be down and he'd have time to catch his stride with the new show. Still, networks don't typically launch shows in the summer.

2) How many loyal or former Jay fans simply decided to tune out for several months knowing he was coming back on the air soon? How many of those people would have watched Conan or given his show a shot if they thought or knew Jay was gone.
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Old 01-30-10, 12:37 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Now here's a question, if Conan's ratings "stunk," how come Letterman still has a job, when his ratings have for years now been consistently at or below Conan's Tonight Show ratings?
Because the numbers you linked to were not the overall ratings (where Letterman had a clear lead over Conan) but the 18-49 averages that networks typically focus on. The hypocrisy in NBC's position is that they initially claimed to only care about how Conan fared with the 18-49s. It was acknowledged that Conan would shed Leno viewers early on, but the trade-off would be a younger "Tonight Show" base. Once they made the decision to bring Leno back to 11:35, they suddenly seized on the overall numbers, ignoring that Conan was delivering his demo pretty well until Leno's 10:00 pm show capsized almost everything that followed him.

Last edited by thenewguy; 01-30-10 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 01-30-10, 01:07 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Charlie Goose View Post
If I remember correctly, the first season or so of Seinfeld didn't draw a large audience either. The show was against Home Improvement, and getting murdered. Lucky for Seinfeld that NBC didn't jump the gun on his show, or he wouldn't have a zillion dollars right now.
Seinfeld should have been shitcanned during its brief first season. That was just awful.
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Old 01-30-10, 02:44 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Listening to Adam on his podcast talk about the situation has been very enlightening.

Adam has no love for Conan because he is "unofficially banned" from appearing on Conan's shows.
Out of curiosity, do you know why?
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Old 01-30-10, 02:57 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by fumanstan View Post
Out of curiosity, do you know why?
Carolla tells the story that he was on Conan's show and made a joke towards a woman in the audience - something about calling her a lesbian - Carolla said that Conan seemed offended and that Carolla was never asked back on the show.
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Old 01-30-10, 02:59 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by pjflyer View Post
Carolla tells the story that he was on Conan's show and made a joke towards a woman in the audience - something about calling her a lesbian - Carolla said that Conan seemed offended and that Carolla was never asked back on the show.
to be fair, what in the hell has Adam had to promote the past 5 to 7 years.
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Old 01-30-10, 03:02 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by pjflyer View Post
Carolla tells the story that he was on Conan's show and made a joke towards a woman in the audience - something about calling her a lesbian - Carolla said that Conan seemed offended and that Carolla was never asked back on the show.
Interesting, surprised Conan would get offended by something like that. I've been a fan of Adam since he and Jimmy were on the morning radio here in LA so I like supporting their endeavors, just surprised that he would support Jay.
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Old 01-30-10, 03:29 PM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

I don't think Conan has ever insulted his audience. He pokes fun at and with his audience but he has never called them names, especially not in a derogatory manner.
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