SonOfAStu

You guys are pretending like we're still in 1993. Conan isn't the only show to get cancelled for not delivering great ratings right away. It's more common these days than not.

I agree with esc24 though. This is good for everyone in the end. Conan will have a show and I don't give a shit if it's on NBC or on Youtube. It doesn't matter to me if it's called "The tonight show" or not.

Darknite39

The reference to Norm in the OP was to his last Late Night w/CO appearance, wherein he talked about how Leno outfoxed everyone.

Achtung

According to this graph, Conan was handily beating Letterman prior to Leno's show premiering on September 14th.

The one-two punch of Leno as a lead-in plus the extortion/affair controversy gave Letterman that huge boost (also remember that Obama appeared on the show around the same time, which upped ratings as well).

Sonic

Ahh ok thanks! I seen that vid btw pretty cool.

story

Maybe it's the affiliates' fault for not having enough amazing local news stories as a lead-in to Conan. You hear that, affiliates?! Time to step it up with those heart string-tugging human interest stories and intense HD graphics!

chuckd21

NBC didn't have #1 shows at 10pm, but they did have shows that were pulling in twice the ratings that The Jay Leno Show was pulling in.

2008-2009 10pm shows
ER - 10.3 million viewers per week.
Law and Order SVU - 10.3 million per week.
Medium - 9 million per week (and they cancelled it!)
Law and Order - 8.23 million per week.

Leno's show averages 6.8 million viewers. So at best, NBC lost 1.5 million viewers per night and at worst lost 3.5 million viewers per night. So then let's say, on average, NBC was 2.5 million viewers down per night at 10pm.

Now, before all the controversy Leno's version of the Tonight Show averaged 5.7 million viewers a night. Conan's averaged 2.94 million viewers. Conan's down 2.7 million viewers.

I'm no TV executive or anything, but this seems pretty obvious to me. Losing viewers at 10pm means those viewers aren't coming back at 11:30.

Chew

I can only wish my local newscasts were in HD.

Achtung

Neither does anything else on NBC, apparently.

wmansir

Once the ratings stabilized in mid-July, compared to Leno's ratings the previous year, Conan was down 20% in the demo and 50% in total viewers. That's a pretty fair apples to apples comparison.

I'm not trying to attack Conan, but his poor ratings are a fact. I think it has more to do with him splitting his core audience with Letterman and Colbert than Conan himself. If we had a Venn diagram of Leno, Conan, Letterman and Colbert viewers I bet the latter three would have a lot more overlap with each other than Leno's audience.

slop101

Didn't this whole thing start right after Comcast bought NBC? I'm guessing they're the ones facilitating this shake up.

aintnosin

Maybe, but long before Conan took over, we knew that Jay Leno was going to be back in the fall. That meant that anyone who watched The Tonight Show for Jay Leno had no reason to stick with the show after he left. No Jay Leno show, and maybe his fans stick around longer for Conan.

That's just speculation, of course, but I believe the mere existence of the Jay Leno Show, even when it was in the future, undermined Conan O'Brien's attempt to establish himself as host of the Tonight Show.

Tommy Ceez

Add to this fact that NONE of those 10oclock shows were A COMEDY SHOW WITH A SIMILAR SET, SIMILAR MONOLOGUE, SIMILAR SKETCHES, SIMILAR GUESTS, AND A SIMILAR FEEL TO THE TONIGHT SHOW

tommyp007

That's an important point.

RichC2

I don't think anyone was expecting Conan to swoop in and pull Leno numbers off the bat. The near 50% drop hurt, but he should have had a bit more time to build an audience.

outcastja

Jeff Zucker on Charlie Rose

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10824

Luds

Why?

The execs don't give a shit about this, all they want is ratings. And Conan couldn't get any, Leno did. It's that simple. NBC will put in some random show at 10 which will do poorly but around what Leno did, and Leno will get much better ratings that Conan at 11:35. It's pretty simple.

Jay G.

DVRs do. Half of the people who watch show recorded on DVR don't fast-forward during playback. So half of the DVR numbers can be added to the total audience when selling ads.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/bu...pagewanted=all
And last I checked, certain online clip sites run commercials in front of them (NBC.com and Hulu).

dhmac

One thing NBC seems to be ignoring is Leno is turning 60 y.o. this year, while Conan will be just turning 47 y.o. this year. As Leno claimed in the 2004 clip, he doesn't want to do the Tonight Show forever, so what if he decides to retire in the next 3 to 6 years? (I think Carson was 66 y.o. when he retired from the show.) If that happens in the next few years (which I think is highly probable), then who will host the Tonight Show? (Jimmy Fallon?!?? YIKES!!!)

NBC seems to be thinking way too short term on this. I think coming up with a plan to keep Conan would've been in their longer time best interest.

resinrats

What I don't get are all these 'lead-in' talks. Are there that many lazy people out there that won't change a channel to what they want? If the late news is decent enough, it seems people would switch to that channel to watch it instead of watching whatever is on after the previous program.

Decker

I still fail to see how Jay Leno isn't going to perceived as "damaged goods" when he comes back to the Tonight Show. I guess we'll see, but I just think at this point, Conan might have been the better horse to back than Jay. Then again, I never understood why anyone would want to watch Jay (before this month) so who knows, maybe his loyal viewers will flock back to him.

As far as the Intellectual Property thing goes -- while I certainly understand why NBC feels that way, what value does that material have without Conan anyway? I think it would have been a nice gesture if they had released some of that stuff for Conan to take with him (while retaining marketing rights and such), seeing as they don't want him around any more apparently.

JasonF

I don't have time to watch the clip, so I'd appreciate it if someone would cut to the chase for me: Who did Zucker announce as the new host of the Charlie Rose show?

ScissorPuppy

It's the same type of thinking that goes with women who won't date there guy friends. "I don't like you like that, but you can't date anyone else."
They don't want Conan, but they don't want anyone else to have him. They cannot control where Conan goes, but they can take away some of what made him a success at NBC. They think they are crippling him. I think Conan still has years of fresh material to create, it would be nice but if he can't take it, he'll be forced to create new and fresh stuff. Not to mention he also has very talented writers.

resinrats

I'd think NBC doesn't want Conan to be able to do his old show (AKA: NBC's) on another network. So without all the bits he has done, he'll have to come up with new stuff.

I am not an intellectual property expert but I would think that stop him from doing a new bit that was obviously the old one with minor changes ('In the year 2100' or the 'Wacking-Off Rabbit'). NBC would probably sue him if he did these.

JasonF

Yes, there are that many lazy people. Let's say your watching CSI. NBC's local news really isn't going to be that different from CBS's (or ABC's for that matter). Maybe you change the channel if you really like the anchorman on ABC or you think the weather girl on NBC is really hot or whatever, but most people don't. And then it's 11:35 (10:35 central and mountain) and you've got a choice between a guy who spends twenty minutes doing a monolog and comedy bits, followed by interviews with celebrities and a band or a stand-up comic. Maybe you really like Letterman over Conan or vice versa, but lots of people don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Moreover, if you just spent the last 90 minutes (or more) watching CBS, you know Dave's going to have Mel Gibson or Renee Zelwegger or whoever and you have no idea who Conan is going to have. Why bother switching channels if you have any interest whatsoever in Letterman's guests (and if you don't, probably the idea of a different batch of celebrities -- you probably don't even know which ones -- on Conan isn't going to really excite you).

That's probably the typical viewer. Myself, I watch talk shows very differently than most people (although maybe not so differently from most people in this particular forum). Generally, I watch Stewart and Colbert. Otherwise, every night (unless I'm too lazy, which is more often than not), I will fire up the Tivo guide and check to see who Leno, Letterman, Conan, Craig, Kimmel, and Fallon have as their guests, record any that look interesting (especially musical guests), and then fast-forward through the shows the next day to get to the guests that I care about. Except, of course, for the last week, when I've made it a point to watch Conan.

D'ohboy

Careful what you wish for...shiver...