Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
How is Leno a bad guy in this? Other than making personal attacks at Letterman that is?
He accepted being pushed over for Conan, stayed loyal to NBC (for whatever reason), got another show, and now is asked to take the Tonight show back since Conan wasn't winning the rating wars. How the hell is this his fault? You can blame NBC for being stupid, and blame the audience for not watching Conan, but blaming Leno is beyond stupid. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955306)
This is BS.
It's all been pathetic, especially Letterman. Christ, this idiot let build all this frustration for over 20 years and is now letting it out. That's pathetic. Conan taking shots at Leno is pretty dumb too. It's too bad for him he couldn't get good ratings but Leno will. So NBC obviously made the right choice. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
No I just thought it was just bad taste, to go on and waste this much money. He could have done something much smarter, like sign up NBC to some Charity segment making jokes and donating his money or whatever.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
His intent isn't to make NBC look clean in any way, shape, or form. As noble as donating NBC's money to charity would be, that still makes them look good on paper. He has plenty of his own (used to be NBC's) money to do that personally and can raise funds for Stillerstrong.org on his program.
I love the Scorched Earth policy he's enacted. It's like a real life Brewster's Millions. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955326)
How is Leno a bad guy in this? Other than making personal attacks at Letterman that is?
He accepted being pushed over for Conan, stayed loyal to NBC (for whatever reason), got another show, and now is asked to take the Tonight show back since Conan wasn't winning the rating wars. How the hell is this his fault? You can blame NBC for being stupid, and blame the audience for not watching Conan, but blaming Leno is beyond stupid. Jay got canceled at 10pm and they opt'd to keep him around by adding his show to the prestigious 11:30 slot which Conan worked his ass off to earn. This then pushed the Tonight Show into tomorrow (12:05) which Conan wasn't willing to stand for (it would hurt his program and Fallon's program, this is all assuming nobody watches Carson :)), afterall, why should Conan and Fallon be punished for Leno's failings? So yes, you can look at it as Leno being the bad guy, Conan being whiny and NBC being incompetent, or any mix there of. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by WallyOPD
(Post 9955308)
Actually I don't. Leno and NBC are clearly the bad guys in this situation, but I'm seeing a lot of people go out of their way to demonize anything Leno does while rationalizing anything Conan/Letterman/anyone else does.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955338)
No I just thought it was just bad taste, to go on and waste this much money. He could have done something much smarter, like sign up NBC to some Charity segment making jokes and donating his money or whatever.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955326)
How is Leno a bad guy in this?
Maybe not a "bad guy," but anybody that can't call him a total liar who is completely full of shit is being disingenuous. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by RichC2
(Post 9955350)
Jay got canceled at 10pm and they opt'd to keep him around by adding his show to the prestigious 11:30 slot which Conan worked his ass off to earn.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by chuckd21
(Post 9955082)
Here's why I'm okay with Dave attacking Jay but not with Jay attacking Dave...
Dave's jokes about Jay have not necessarily been personal attacks. They've been professional ones, about his business dealings and behavior within the business. All Jay can seem to do is attack Dave personally, and that just seems pathetic. I've always been indifferent to Jay, even during this nonsense. But jokes about Dave's personal life really don't even seem to be in the same ballfield as Dave's jokes about Jay's work behavior. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
I don't have a problem with Leno taking shots at Dave, NBC, or even Conan if he wants to. His bits just aren't good and lack any real ingenuity.
I've always been more of a Dave guy and some of his pieces on this have been hilarious and others are lame. Kimmel's show where he did "Jay" was pretty funny. His follow-up bits, outside of the 10 @ 10, have been pretty lame. Conan has, hands down in my opinion, been the most creative and humorous of everyone. The craigslist stuff, the classic moments, car, music, etc. have all been great. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
^I agree with all of that.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by RichC2
(Post 9955350)
Leno is being singled out as the bad guy because of NBC bending over backwards to accomodate him when he should just say "no" and walk away with his head held high. NBC didn't ask Leno to take over the Tonight Show because of bad ratings.
Jay got canceled at 10pm and they opt'd to keep him around by adding his show to the prestigious 11:30 slot which Conan worked his ass off to earn. This then pushed the Tonight Show into tomorrow (12:05) which Conan wasn't willing to stand for (it would hurt his program and Fallon's program, this is all assuming nobody watches Carson :)), afterall, why should Conan and Fallon be punished for Leno's failings? So yes, you can look at it as Leno being the bad guy, Conan being whiny and NBC being incompetent, or any mix there of.
Originally Posted by RoyalTea
(Post 9955368)
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Maybe not a "bad guy," but anybody that can't call him a total liar who is completely full of shit is being disingenuous. So are people just mad at Leno because he didn't leave and go somewhere else to start another show? Maybe he's just a loyal guy. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955326)
and now is asked to take the Tonight show back since Conan wasn't winning the rating wars.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
For all the talk of "The Tonight Show" name, I can't recall it being used when Carson was host. When Carson was host, people would say "Did you see Carson (or "Johnny" or "Johnny Carson") last night?" I can recall it being referred to as "The Tonight Show" before and after Carson, but never during his reign.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955326)
How is Leno a bad guy in this? Other than making personal attacks at Letterman that is?
He accepted being pushed over for Conan, stayed loyal to NBC (for whatever reason), got another show, and now is asked to take the Tonight show back since Conan wasn't winning the rating wars. How the hell is this his fault? You can blame NBC for being stupid, and blame the audience for not watching Conan, but blaming Leno is beyond stupid. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Doc Moonlight
(Post 9955420)
For all the talk of "The Tonight Show" name, I can't recall it being used when Carson was host. When Carson was host, people would say "Did you see Carson (or "Johnny" or "Johnny Carson") last night?" I can recall it being referred to as "The Tonight Show" before and after Carson, but never during his reign.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Nefarious
(Post 9955422)
Leno is far from faultless in this whole mess. He is not solely at fault but he certainly shares a good chunk of the blame. There have numerous timelines, articles, and videos shared through this thread and the previous one which make it "beyond stupid" for anyone to think he is faultless.
Not faultless, he did want the show back and could have moved aside, but from reading all the posts in here it's like he's the devil in person. NBC is clearly to blame here. Taking Leno off while he was still ratings king and signed Conan was the wrong move, or not letting Conan have a longer run to get better ratings. Perhaps also for putting *another* tonight show at 10 for Leno as well. None of this is Leno's fault |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Doc Moonlight
(Post 9955420)
For all the talk of "The Tonight Show" name, I can't recall it being used when Carson was host. When Carson was host, people would say "Did you see Carson (or "Johnny" or "Johnny Carson") last night?" I can recall it being referred to as "The Tonight Show" before and after Carson, but never during his reign.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by dx23
(Post 9955175)
What I would love is to see all the fans of Conan show up as audience members when Jay returns to the show. I want to see that return filled with jeers and hate towards Jay.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Unless I missed something, wasn't last night (or the night before) the first time Jay has attacked Dave. Seems Dave has been at it a week or so. Of course they have been personal unless 'Big Jaw' is a professional term.
Also, has it ever been said that Jay was the one to suggest moving Conan? It seems he is just going with what NBC suggests. Could he have quit? Yes, but as we have seen in the past, he also cares about his crew (brought them over to his new show & paid them during the strikes) so maybe a reason he is staying is loyalty to the people that have supported him for years. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by nightwing82
(Post 9955377)
History should tell you that since Letterman failed to automatically receive the Tonight Show, having the time slot and program post-The Tonight Show does not guarantee you the hosting gig on the Tonight Show eventually (Jimmy Fallon has most likely definitely taken note of this now). Conan should work his ass off, on his own show, to make it successful. And, he did that (on Late Night). He didn't do that on his version of the Tonight Show, which seemed (to me) just a weird watered down version of Late Night with him puppet dancing and bringing back Andy Richter who was not missed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Brien_sketches
Originally Posted by Nefarious
(Post 9955398)
Conan has, hands down in my opinion, been the most creative and humorous of everyone. The craigslist stuff, the classic moments, car, music, etc. have all been great.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by resinrats
(Post 9955440)
Unless I missed something, wasn't last night (or the night before) the first time Jay has attacked Dave. Seems Dave has been at it a week or so. Of course they have been personal unless 'Big Jaw' is a professional term.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
It's official:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34970662...sion?gt1=43001 Conan gets $33 million, the staff $12 million. Conan will pay the staff in addition to their severance. He is released from his contract on September 1. No mention of intelectual property. Leno returns March 1. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Luds
(Post 9955443)
There's just a HUGE bias against Leno in this whole affair, it's ridiculous.
Coincidence? |
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