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Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

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Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Old 07-30-09, 05:15 PM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

I buy organic often, and it is all about pesticides. And it's not so much about just wanting to limit my pesticide intake, it is about being part of a market force that leads to less pesticides being used in general. That has to benefit not only the workers but the environment as a whole.

You can laugh at that all you want, but a show about nutritional value of organic foods vs non-organic is pretty silly. I do agree that buying local, whether officially organic or not, is a very good thing to do.
Old 07-30-09, 05:33 PM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by LurkerDan
I buy organic often, and it is all about pesticides. And it's not so much about just wanting to limit my pesticide intake, it is about being part of a market force that leads to less pesticides being used in general. That has to benefit not only the workers but the environment as a whole.

You can laugh at that all you want, but a show about nutritional value of organic foods vs non-organic is pretty silly. I do agree that buying local, whether officially organic or not, is a very good thing to do.
Hippy!!!
Old 07-30-09, 10:54 PM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

I think it was another stellar show. Took on every organic claim and knocked them down.

They are back in the form of the early seasons.
Old 07-31-09, 12:03 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

The only organic product I buy is Milk. Its last much longer and does taste better.
Old 07-31-09, 07:30 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Very good show. Another subject I knew next to nothing about (but strongly suspected bullshit) and I learned a lot. Good to see Ronald Bailey from Reason featured in the episode.

There's an Organic Dry Cleaners right around the corner from where I live. I've always about that - wondering how that works. I bet it's expensive though.
Old 07-31-09, 10:34 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Great episode. Some people are just fucking wacky and try too hard to be different.
Old 07-31-09, 11:35 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by Red Dog
Very good show. Another subject I knew next to nothing about (but strongly suspected bullshit) and I learned a lot. Good to see Ronald Bailey from Reason featured in the episode.

There's an Organic Dry Cleaners right around the corner from where I live. I've always about that - wondering how that works. I bet it's expensive though.
forgot what they use, but it's not percloroethelene
Old 07-31-09, 11:36 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

can someone post a summary? wanted to see it, but realized i don't get showtime
Old 07-31-09, 11:41 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

They said "fuck" a lot, and near the end a big-breasted woman got topless and danced around.
Old 07-31-09, 11:58 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

i can get that from a 2 live crew video for free on youtube, is it worth paying extra to the cable company?
Old 07-31-09, 12:15 PM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by Larry C.
The only organic product I buy is Milk. Its last much longer and does taste better.
a lot of organic milk is ultrapasteurized, are you sure it's not just lasting longer because of that? That said, I make sure to buy the ultrapasteurized versions precisely because they last longer.
Old 07-31-09, 01:45 PM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by al_bundy
can someone post a summary? wanted to see it, but realized i don't get showtime
- Most of the hippies who took the blind taste test thought the non-organic stuff tasted better

- The organic stuff still uses pesticides, they just use "natural" pesticides. The synthetic pesticides are actually better for you, since they have improved so much over the years

- Most organic stuff comes from huge farms or from overseas (China) not from mom-and-pop farms

- If everything was organic, we would not be able to produce anywhere near as much food as we do now, because it takes far more land to grow organic crops, thus billions of people would starve.

- Organic food doesn't have any more nutrients than non-organic food
Old 07-31-09, 06:12 PM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by Jeremy517
- - If everything was organic, we would not be able to produce anywhere near as much food as we do now, because it takes far more land to grow organic crops, thus billions of people would starve.
This is what bothers me the most. If Harry Hippy thinks organic tastes better, more power to him. It's his money. But to advocate that all farming should be organic is simply promoting starvation in the third world. It's easy to be picky when you have a full stomach.
Old 08-01-09, 07:58 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

I stopped watching the show after Season 2 after finally tiring of the straw man act that the series' writers (who rarely include P&T themselves) carry on. Show a crackpot rambling on, call him names, then declare his perspective "bullshit." I particularly enjoyed when they took on the whole of Christianity and two millennia of debate and philosophy in a half hour and then proudly proclaimed that they'd shot it down.

Objections to fair-mindedness aside, most of the arguments made on this particular show are worthy of creationists who strive to disprove evolution by referring to the Piltdown Man or anarcho-capitalists who reject the greenhouse effect by dint of political tastes.

Nutrition, taste, and farm locations are largely irrelevant issues, as these claims are at best uncommon and at worst trivial. The yield issue remains debated, the only consensus being that the use of organic farming materials and technology, most of which are inexpensive and readily available in developing nations, would increase the rate of food production in impoverished nations by a factor of two or three. Finally, the claim that conventional farms use "safer" pesticides is ridiculously narrow--many conventional pesticides are relatively benign, while others are incredibly destructive pollutants when they seep into groundwater or bodies of water. Lumping literally thousands of formulations of pesticides together and calling them safer (already vague to the point of nonsense--safer for humans in particular, some members of an ecosystem, or all life?) is a ludicrous oversimplification.

I'm far from a hippie, have never knowingly purchased organic produce, and have been known to enjoy Sevin-Dust parties when the tomato worms mobilize in my garden, but I have a strong distaste for edutainment that engages in slurs and misdirection rather than legitimate investigation. Sure, the program provides the disclaimer that it's not meant to be fair, but it'd be nice to see the stars admit that the majority of their arguments and informal studies are irrelevant to the issues they attempt to debunk. In other words, for entertainment purposes only. I guess reading through dozens of pages of statistics is less interesting than watching a 50-year-old man scream fuck and spout facile nonsense while being circled by nude women.

Come to think of it, that is less interesting.
Old 08-01-09, 09:38 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by grrr
Nutrition, taste, and farm locations are largely irrelevant issues, as these claims are at best uncommon and at worst trivial. The yield issue remains debated, the only consensus being that the use of organic farming materials and technology, most of which are inexpensive and readily available in developing nations, would increase the rate of food production in impoverished nations by a factor of two or three.
That's the first I've ever heard that. Have a link I could check it out at? Wikipedia contains information on two studies, one that says organic yields stink compared with conventional, and the UN one that argues much what you are stating. That's hardly a "consensus."

Last edited by Duran; 08-01-09 at 01:19 PM. Reason: correct spelling error
Old 08-01-09, 09:53 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by LurkerDan
I buy organic often, and it is all about pesticides. And it's not so much about just wanting to limit my pesticide intake, it is about being part of a market force that leads to less pesticides being used in general. That has to benefit not only the workers but the environment as a whole.
The show, if it was accurate, blew the lid off that argument. Organic farmers also use pesticides, but do not use the newest synthetic pesticides which, according to the show, are far less toxic than the older, more "natural" pesticides uised by the organic farmers.
Old 08-01-09, 11:09 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by Duran
That's the first I've ever heard that. Have a link I could check it out at? Wikipedia contains information on two studies, one that says organic yields stick compared with conventional, and the UN one that argues much what you are stating. That's hardly a "consensus."
Yeah, can't say I've heard of that as a widespread theory/argument. Anyways, two or three times zero is still zero.

Originally Posted by Bandoman
The show, if it was accurate, blew the lid off that argument. Organic farmers also use pesticides, but do not use the newest synthetic pesticides which, according to the show, are far less toxic than the older, more "natural" pesticides uised by the organic farmers.
All I know is my father, who does all his own spraying and some custom work for other farmers, gets covered pretty good in chemicals when he's cleaning out the sprayer or it's windy or whatever, and is in perfect health (although obviously any negative effects might not show up for years...). And he's made the argument before that a lot of the chemicals used now you could drink (in concentrated form...things like Roundup are only applied at a rate of 32/oz or so an acre, that's very little chemical spread over that much area) and be fine if you got help fast.
Old 08-03-09, 08:30 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Prince Charles isn't buying any of that science crap!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...c-dispute.html

Prince of Wales prepares for an organic dispute

Heralded as the definitive study into the supposed health benefits of organic food, the inquiry by the Government's watchdog has failed to convince the Prince of Wales.

Tim Walker. Edited by Richard Eden
Published: 10:00PM BST 02 Aug 2009

Mandrake hears that the heir to the throne plans to question publicly the Food Standards Agency's conclusion that expensive organic food is no better for you than produce from intensive farms.

"This study hasn't changed His Royal Highness's views one bit," one of the Prince's friends tells me. "Charles thinks it's ludicrous to suggest that vegetables treated with chemicals or meat raised with antibiotics can be as good for you as proper food."

Lord Melchett, who is the policy director of the Soil Association and a close ally of the Prince, tells me: "He believes in organic food."

The hereditary peer questions the validity of the FSA's comprehensive study. "It's a very poor piece of work," he claims. "It seems that there will be a rebuttal from scientists around the world. It's very disappointing. I thought the FSA had got over this anti-organic stance by now. It seems not."

He adds: "Our position is the science says organic food has nutritional benefits. I was a government minister for nearly five years and I'm really surprised at the behaviour of both the scientists and the FSA. They confused opinion with science."
"Proper food."
Old 08-03-09, 08:44 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Unfortunately, what we eat we also drink. Here's what's increasing annually in our water supply from non-organic foods among other sources: antibiotics and painkillers, hormones and tranquilizers, drugs to treat blood cholesterol, epilepsy and cancer, musk fragrances, and phthalates, a family of chemicals found in cosmetics, perfumes and hair products. That's not BS.
Old 08-03-09, 09:30 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Did they talk about genetically modified foods at all? It seems like that gives people the willies, but I don't recall hearing much about real problems with it.
Old 08-03-09, 10:51 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by MrE
Unfortunately, what we eat we also drink. Here's what's increasing annually in our water supply from non-organic foods among other sources: antibiotics and painkillers, hormones and tranquilizers, drugs to treat blood cholesterol, epilepsy and cancer, musk fragrances, and phthalates, a family of chemicals found in cosmetics, perfumes and hair products. That's not BS.
Off topic but more alarmism. Everything is mixed with everything. The question is, how much of any allegedly dangerous substance is in something? The dose makes the poison. Most of the dangers are exaggerated and then the amounts are so small they are not harmful.
Old 08-03-09, 10:54 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by starman9000
Did they talk about genetically modified foods at all? It seems like that gives people the willies, but I don't recall hearing much about real problems with it.
No they didn't. They covered it in the episode Eat This! in the first season.
Old 08-03-09, 10:54 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

I've read that our tap water contains the same dangerous combination of elements that destroyed the Hindenburg!
Old 08-03-09, 10:57 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by Groucho
I've read that our tap water contains the same dangerous combination of elements that destroyed the Hindenburg!


Strange but true!
Old 08-03-09, 11:20 AM
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Re: Penn & Teller Bull****: Organic Foods - 07/30/09

Originally Posted by movielib
No they didn't. They covered it in the episode Eat This! in the first season.
Thanks, i need to rent some of these, or find them on Hulu or something.

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