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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

0073735963 05-14-09 09:10 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by GenPion (Post 9443035)
Richard seems to me like he came from the Black Rock. And it was interesting how they revealed that "Jacob made me this way" in terms of his lack of aging... had he come from the black rock, died, and was resurrected by Jacob? That seems a plausible theory to me.

Shoot I must have missed that. Can someone please tell me the scene that this occured in? Cool that they addressed it...

cleaver 05-14-09 09:10 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I think the smoke monster can only appear as people who died make that people whose corpses are on the island: Ben's daughter, Jack's dad, Eko's brother, Locke.

JohnSlider 05-14-09 09:12 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Locke didn't die on the island.

Groucho 05-14-09 09:13 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by John Slider (Post 9443425)
Locke didn't die on the island.

Neither did Jack's dad. But it does seem that Smokey can only appear as dead people.

Merkin Muffley 05-14-09 09:17 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Boba Fett (Post 9443019)
Just wait, next year Jacob's death will be avenged by his buddy the carpet pisser.

Obviously, Jacob is not a golfer.

Tom Banjo 05-14-09 09:19 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I keep thinking of the paradox from The Dark Tower, of Roland and Jake both slowly going insane from having two sets of incompatible memories, and I wonder if something similar will play into next year. Maybe something along the lines of 815 doesn't crash, but as they go about their lives they keep gaining memories of the things we've already seen on the island. Or maybe they're flashing between two different alternate realities. I dunno, that may be a bit too far-fetched.
BTW- I thought we were supposed to see a young Mr. Friendly/Tom in the finale?

Palaver 05-14-09 09:22 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cleaver (Post 9443417)
I think the smoke monster can only appear as people who died on the island: Ben's daughter, Jack's dad, Eko's brother, Locke.

I've said this before, but I really don't think that is smokey who is inhabiting these dead people. I think smokey is a separate entity from either Jacob or fake-Locke. I think smokey may answer to to fake-Locke, but I don't think they are the same.

cracksky 05-14-09 09:30 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I think S6 starts off and we're on deck of The Black Rock during a huge storm, heading towards the island and suddenly it disappears before their eyes. They keep sailing for it and end up right in the middle (where it was) as it reappears and they crash on land. Opening titles.

ericmylad 05-14-09 09:32 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I'm still in shock that after all this time Jacob turned out to be Hulk Hogan's brother from "No Holds Barred". Who knew? ;)

cracksky 05-14-09 09:33 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
All dark tower comments need to be spoilerized.

Not everyone in the world has read these novels.

This is a lost thread. Respect the topic.

Aegean2007 05-14-09 09:34 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DthRdrX (Post 9443140)
It would have been cool to see him, or Claire/Walt show up. What can you do?

Another thing that I thought was interesting was the Kate/Sawyer 'flashbacks'. I wonder if they were also proof that Jacob changed things, in smaller ways? Sawyer never finished his revenge letter in the 70s and Kate gets helped out of that situation at the store before she runs for the first time.

I saw that differently: if Jacob hadn't intervened, Sawyer would have never finished the letter because he ran out of ink and Kate's mom would have punished her for stealing the lunchbox and she may have never started her life of crime.

Sean O'Hara 05-14-09 09:37 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe (Post 9442994)
If the bomb went off at the end, then the Others and Dahrma folk living on the island in 1977 are dead for good, right? So Eloise and Charles have no future beyond 1977, right?

Not necessarily. If the bomb was far enough underground, it would only cause an earthquake and create a huge underground cavity, which would quickly collapse, leaving a crater on the surface. Something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eparation2.jpg

MoviePage 05-14-09 09:38 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Merkin Muffley (Post 9442857)
The guy at the beginning with Jacob is named Silas. He's the bagman from Yankton.

What does this mean?

redrum 05-14-09 09:40 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
ya jacob definitely brought them all to the island, the question is why?

like the guy opposite of jacob said "you brought them here", referring to the ship

Sean O'Hara 05-14-09 09:47 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9443487)
What does this mean?

It means he's a San Fransisco c***-****er, you hooplehead.

Nose42 05-14-09 09:50 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9443487)
What does this mean?

It's a reference to a character that actor (Titus Welliver) played on Deadwood.


Originally Posted by HotThang (Post 9443136)
GREAT Finale! I'm rewatching it tonight to see what I missed.

BTW - Weren't we supposed to see young Tom (Mr. Friendly)?

We saw the young Tom that was Kate's friend/lookout/love with the plane and lunchbox, later played by Mackenzie Astin in season 1's "Born to Run"

Ms. M 05-14-09 09:53 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I loved the plotting and mysteries in this episode, but did anyone think the finale was a mess in terms of characterization? By the end, all the characters with Jack seemed to support his crazy idea, but there was no clear reason why any of them (except Sayid, I suppose) would do so. Even Jin did and Jack's idea would effectively destroy his child. And Jack's reason for doing all of this was so selfish - as Sawyer noted, Kate would probably go to jail if the idea worked, but Jack still wants a small chance of hooking up with her.

If these people are supposed to be the epitome of light, in opposition to Smokie/Fake Locke, then the writers either haven't been doing a great job setting this up or the conflict really isn't about strict good vs. evil.

Jeeden 05-14-09 09:56 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I like some of the mentioned here to it being a biblical story.

Remember Jacob was very intent on telling been he had a choice. Perhaps they are playing up free will?

So let's say that the faux lock is the "devil" and is constantly playing against "god" throughout time on this island. The devil can't defeat god, he is unable to kill him (his mortal self on the island). So he needs to find a loophole and have someone else choose to kill him of their own free will. This WHOLE thing was simply his plan to have that occur which is why he said "you have no idea what I have had to go through to do this"

It explains Jacob touching the losties (sorta), the black vs white theme, the back stories of so many folks having trouble in their pasts presumably caused by the "devil" to setup this whole thing.

I found the quote in the begining interesting too where he says "it always ends the same way" with the black rock at sea. I wonder if they keep playing this game with each other to see if the people on the island can resist the manipulation of the bad guy?

uteotw 05-14-09 10:01 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I at least wanted Sun to be reunited with Jin. Or is he really "dead"? Since "dead is dead..." Sheesh.

s}{ammer 05-14-09 10:03 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by chanster (Post 9443156)
Actually, I think the Egyptians on the island were similar to the Black Rock folks and the Oceanic crew, they were brought to the island - but they are not related to Jacob.

They practically hit us over the head last night with this. Jacob and the other guy are on the island alone, other guy says how he really wishes he could kill Jacob and that the same thing will happen when the ship gets there. Jacob makes tapestry that is Egyptian, he lives in the foot of an Egyptian statue.

Perhaps they will throw some other thing out there about aliens or something, the statue did have 4 toes after all, something like Jacob and the enemy are aliens that landed and became the Egyptian gods or whatever. However I find it hard to believe that anyone can question any longer that this is a story about an eternal battle between these two "gods" and that whenever another ship, be it a boat or plane, crashes on the island these two start playing the game against each other using the survivors of the crashes.

I bet that Richard was on the Black Pearl and that the Pearl crashing on the island set off the latest battle, by the end of next season Jacob and the other guy will be back on the island alone watching as another ship comes in to start over.

CPA-ESQ. 05-14-09 10:05 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Weak episode - which did not need to be 2 hours. 1 hour of it was everyone running / walking through the jungle and fighting with Jack..

then in the last 5 minutes - everyone is on board with blowing themselves and other innocent people to smithereens, shooting non-violent people who they lived with for 3 years - all in the name of "I love kate," and "you were looking at another girl"

The ending was a bit disappointing - and I hope it does not go down a whole God vs Angels route.

Slumbering Fist 05-14-09 10:06 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I've watched every frame of the show since it first aired.

And now I've decided LOST is (or, more aptly, has become) just dumb silly pants.

It was cool when the characters arcs and backstory controlled the tilt of the show, but now its just mainly them running around in convoluted hokum.

cracksky 05-14-09 10:09 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Even if the bomb resets and 815 lands safely at LAX, I think that Desmond would still be connected to Faraday and have some memories. The island will still be there but the hatch is destroyed so when Desmond crashes his boat in 2001 what will he do there instead of pushing the button? Just fix his boat and leave? Maybe he never goes on the race in the first place because that was set up through Widmore. Maybe he never meets Penny either but has memories of her, Charlie (his son) and the island (button experience) and decides to find Faraday and Eloise to change things again.

Palaver 05-14-09 10:14 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9443545)
However I find it hard to believe that anyone can question any longer that this is a story about an eternal battle between these two "gods" and that whenever another ship, be it a boat or plane, crashes on the island these two start playing the game against each other using the survivors of the crashes.

I think you are on the money here. Except I think that the people are being brought there by Jacob. Basically, the battle seems to be whether mankind has any potential. Fake-Locke seems to think we are not redeemable. Jacob seems to have faith in mankind.

johnnysd 05-14-09 10:17 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I actually think that there will be some sort of "reset" but that the Losties will retain knowledge of what happened before.

Gizmo 05-14-09 10:25 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Worst finale of Lost yet. They gave an obvious out for Juliet if "V" does not get picked up (or promptly canceled) by ABC. No "real" character deaths.

Giles 05-14-09 10:26 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by CPA-ESQ. (Post 9443547)

The ending was a bit disappointing - and I hope it does not go down a whole God vs Angels route.

or 'the Rapture'

s}{ammer 05-14-09 10:30 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Jeeden (Post 9443526)
I like some of the mentioned here to it being a biblical story.

Remember Jacob was very intent on telling been he had a choice. Perhaps they are playing up free will?

So let's say that the faux lock is the "devil" and is constantly playing against "god" throughout time on this island. The devil can't defeat god, he is unable to kill him (his mortal self on the island). So he needs to find a loophole and have someone else choose to kill him of their own free will. This WHOLE thing was simply his plan to have that occur which is why he said "you have no idea what I have had to go through to do this"

It explains Jacob touching the losties (sorta), the black vs white theme, the back stories of so many folks having trouble in their pasts presumably caused by the "devil" to setup this whole thing.

I found the quote in the begining interesting too where he says "it always ends the same way" with the black rock at sea. I wonder if they keep playing this game with each other to see if the people on the island can resist the manipulation of the bad guy?

Once again, you are totally skipping over the facts that this is older than the Christian bible. They made a very obvious attempt to show us that Jacob makes Egyptian tapestry and lives in the foot of an Egyptian statue. Of course to most modern folks who are mostly familiar with Christianity will "feel" a biblical touch on this story, since Christianity and many of the biblical stories are adapted from earlier religions that were in the same geographical area.

Jacob is not a good guy fighting a bad guy. These are two gods who use people as pawns in their game. Neither is good or bad, just different in the ways they use people. Just look at how Jacob told Ben "What about you?" in other words to Jacob, what is Ben? He could have explained to Ben why everything happened like it did, but why bother explain yourself to someone so low as a mere human mortal?

Horus=Sun, sky, healing
Seth(Set)=infertility, chaos, envy

These two were both gods and Seth was seen as an evil counterpart to Horus. Since Horus is the basis for Christ this all feels like it fits within the Christian bible, however, framing the story within a monotheistic religion won't work well.

Just read a bit on Horus and Seth(Set) here at Wikipedia and immediately you should notice the similarities between Jacob and Horus, and Seth and the other guy with Jacob.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mythology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

Edit:forgot to add links to wiki

Merkin Muffley 05-14-09 10:31 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Even more connections to The Stand last night.
Spoiler:
Other than the obvious bomb connection, we're starting to see the theme of an eternal struggle that keeps repeating itself with different players. The scene at the beginning with them sitting on the beach has echoes of the very end of The Stand when Flagg washes up on the shore, ready to begin the cycle again.

s}{ammer 05-14-09 10:40 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Merkin Muffley (Post 9443615)
Even more connections to The Stand last night.
Spoiler:
Other than the obvious bomb connection, we're starting to see the theme of an eternal struggle that keeps repeating itself with different players. The scene at the beginning with them sitting on the beach has echoes of the very end of The Stand when Flagg washes up on the shore, ready to begin the cycle again.

Interesting you mention this. We all know how King likes to write in a magical negro in his stories and I got that vibe last night from Rose.

She makes a comment along the lines of "after 3 years you people are still running around trying to shoot each other." It felt to me like a very observant comment from her, almost like she herself is yet another "god" like creature on the island there to help steer the losties in the right direction, but of course they ignore her insight and storm off to the next fight.

By the way, I mention magical negro because it is a literary tool not in a racist way.

mphtrilogy 05-14-09 10:45 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Jacob had a chance to thwart the plan when Ben confronted him, he actually provoked him with his response, "what are you?" indeed. Jacob could have said I have a plan for you or some other nonsense. He wanted Ben to go through with it.

Jacob has a plan also and we will see this play out in S6.

it's a shame to see Locke die twice on this show.. bummer, what a life for Locke! i do hope his character can be reignnited, but in the end it looks like he was just a putz.

Looks like they wrapped up a ton of characters, Original 'Classic' Locke, Rose, Bernard, Juliet, they even gave us some closure on Vincent they all look like they will be reduced to minor players.

Bizarro Locke will take center stage.

Not the greatest of finales, but another real good season, which is saying a lot for a 5 Season, 1 Hour Show.

Some Tasty Final Season 6 Morsels:
How the statue Blew
How the Ship got on the Island
Where did the pile of Dharma corpses come from
Quarantine!
The closure of Claire
Who air drops the Dharma food?
Who is Dharma?
Whidmore's End game
The final swan song of Ben
Ileana and the Egyptian 'Good Guy' Crew
Ileana in the Hospital with bandages and one eyeball backstory
Jacob's Revenge/Vengence or other?
Bizarro Locke's New Rule
The Smoke Monster revealed!
The Others Finale Mission revealed!
Alperts Backstory
Jacks Final Redemption!
Hurley, Kate, Sayid, Sawyers story wraps
Christians true purpose
Aarons finale?
Sun and Jin's reunion
Sun's baby?
Walt done for good?
One last appearance by Faraday, Charlie?
Polar Bears?

Looking forward to the finale Grand Royale of battle of Good v Evil in Season 6.

Wow this has been one Legendary Show

Michael Corvin 05-14-09 10:51 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by TLwizard (Post 9442951)
If those two found in Season 1 are Adam and Eve...

Are Jacob and other dude Cain and Abel?

You just blew my mind.


Originally Posted by Tom Banjo (Post 9443447)
I keep thinking of the paradox from The Dark Tower, of Roland and Jake both slowly going insane from having two sets of incompatible memories, and I wonder if something similar will play into next year. Maybe something along the lines of 815 doesn't crash, but as they go about their lives they keep gaining memories of the things we've already seen on the island. Or maybe they're flashing between two different alternate realities. I dunno, that may be a bit too far-fetched.
BTW- I thought we were supposed to see a young Mr. Friendly/Tom in the finale?

I've always subscribed to the multiple realities/planes of existence ala The Dark Tower. Team Darlton and Abrams have made it clear they are huge fans and even bought the movie rights. I have no doubt that they could be trying to pull off something similar on Lost. So turning the donkey wheel instead of moving the island through time, it moves to another similar plane of existence. So the people weren't skipping through time at all just to a similar reality that isn't in sync with the previous plane. This would explain why no one can change the future.

Along those same lines, Faraday thought he was able to have the mind jump in time, but what if it was merely unlocking a memory from an alternate timeline/reality? In essence, what if the flashbacks as we have known them weren't flashbacks at all but the actual timeline and everything that happened on the island is the flashback/memories from this alternate reality?

I've always had an issue with the flashbacks since season one. Were the flashbacks for the benefit of the viewer or were the characters actually having the flashback at the time? I argued quite a bit about it 5 years ago, but I still think it could be pretty important as we get closer to the end.

I also love the Stand connection Merky pointed out, right down to Mother Abigail.

Flave 05-14-09 10:52 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara (Post 9443486)
Not necessarily. If the bomb was far enough underground, it would only cause an earthquake and create a huge underground cavity, which would quickly collapse, leaving a crater on the surface.

Those tests are usually done at around 5000 ft below ground. No way these guys drilled that deep.

That said, they did not detonate the hydrogen bomb, just the (much weaker) atomic bomb "primer". (An atomic bomb is used to initiate the fusion reaction of the hydrogen bomb.) If they had detonated the actual hydrogen bomb, the entire island and a good chunk of the surrounding ocean would have been vaporized.

And THAT said, an atomic bomb is still plenty powerful and they should all be dead.

HE Pennypacker 05-14-09 10:55 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9443474)
All dark tower comments need to be spoilerized.

Not everyone in the world has read these novels.

This is a lost thread. Respect the topic.

I second this.

Flave 05-14-09 11:00 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9443664)
I've always subscribed to the multiple realities/planes of existence ala The Dark Tower. Team Darlton and Abrams have made it clear they are huge fans and even bought the movie rights. I have no doubt that they could be trying to pull off something similar on Lost. So turning the donkey wheel instead of moving the island through time, it moves to another similar plane of existence. So the people weren't skipping through time at all just to a similar reality that isn't in sync with the previous plane. This would explain why no one can change the future.

Along those same lines, Faraday thought he was able to have the mind jump in time, but what if it was merely unlocking a memory from an alternate timeline/reality? In essence, what if the flashbacks as we have known them weren't flashbacks at all but the actual timeline and everything that happened on the island is the flashback/memories from this alternate reality?

I think you're confusing "Lost" with "Fringe". :)

Groucho 05-14-09 11:02 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9443682)
I think you're confusing "Lost" with "Fringe". :)

Or with the new Star Trek flick.

It's almost as if all three of these franchises have something in common.

HE Pennypacker 05-14-09 11:02 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
So every century or so Jacob feels the need to bring people to the island. How long has he been doing this? Who did he nudge towards the island prior to the Black Rock crew?

Michael Corvin 05-14-09 11:06 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9443685)

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9443682)
I think you're confusing "Lost" with "Fringe". :)

Or with the new Star Trek flick.

It's almost as if all three of these franchises have something in common.

:lol:

I've never seen Fringe and am not a Trek fan. Sounds like I should check out both.

BlackCapTen 05-14-09 11:07 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Anybody have ideas on who Adam and Eve are now that the season is over?

Flave 05-14-09 11:07 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by mphtrilogy (Post 9443655)
Jacob had a chance to thwart the plan when Ben confronted him, he actually provoked him with his response, "what are you?" indeed. Jacob could have said I have a plan for you or some other nonsense. He wanted Ben to go through with it.

Jacob has a plan also and we will see this play out in S6.

Nobody else see the Jesus Christ symbolism here? Jacob = Jesus, other guy = Satan, Ben = Judas, and Jacob dies to redeem our sins?


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