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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

Palaver 05-18-09 01:03 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by buzzdalf (Post 9451234)
I have been thinking the same thing about the fail safe key. I think that WAS the bomb.
Although, maybe it still IS the bomb and it was always put there by the losties. After they flash out at the end of the episode Dharma decides to use it as the fail safe. They were just setting up what really happened and didn't change anything.
hmm, I have to wonder.

Or maybe the bomb going off did work in averting disaster and Dharma decided to procure another bomb as a failsafe for future disasters.

dsa_shea 05-18-09 01:23 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9450980)
I donít think anybody has mentioned this possibility yet, so I just throw this out there. Plus, if this is right, I want credit for predicting it.

I canít help but think that Jacob and Ben may actually be working together in a long con of sorts. I canít get past the fact that Ben really started acting out of character once he saw the resurrected Locke. I know we are supposed to attribute that to his shock of seeing Locke alive. But I think he was actually playing dumb.

Little things like his claiming to not know about the drug plane. I donít believe for a minute that Ben didnít already know about that plane. I think he knew all along that Locke wasnít really Locke and he was just lying low to figure out what to do.

Of course all of this begs the question: Why did he seemingly kill Jacob? I donít think we know enough (or anything) about this supposed loophole at this point, but his appearing to kill Jacob may have been part of a bigger plan to lull him into a false sense of security, while the grand plan is put into place (ďTheyíre comingĒ).

Bottom line: Ben has been too much of a kick ass character to have been so easily bamboozled at this point. We have to assume that Jacob choose Ben as a leader (unlike Locke) and he did it for a reason. I definitely would want Ben on my side if a war was coming.

I know my evidence on this is flimsy, but Iím going with my gut on this one.


They bamboozled the hell out of Locke and basically left him dead on the side of the road after he was there from the beginning. What makes you think that they didn't do it to Ben as well? Who thinks that Ben and Locke are actually brothers that have been duped all along?

Palaver 05-18-09 01:46 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9451386)
They bamboozled the hell out of Locke and basically left him dead on the side of the road after he was there from the beginning. What makes you think that they didn't do it to Ben as well? Who thinks that Ben and Locke are actually brothers that have been duped all along?

Mainly because Locke's character has always been easily manipulated his entire life. Especially by father-type figures. We've always been convinced from the onset that Locke is something special (and I kinda think he still may be), but Richard, himself, pointed out that he didn't see anything special about Locke.

Ben, on the other hand, has always been 3 moves ahead of everyone. He's the classic manipulator and strategist.

Plus he knows all kinds of crap about that island. Island needs moving? Sure there's donkey wheel behind this wall that'll do the trick. Need to fight the bad guys? Let me pull this drain to summon a smoke monster. Need Locke's daddy? Get the magic box. Need a drug plane? Umm. I got no idea what you're talking about.

I'm just not buying it.

Mr. Cinema 05-18-09 02:01 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9450980)
I donít think anybody has mentioned this possibility yet, so I just throw this out there. Plus, if this is right, I want credit for predicting it.

I canít help but think that Jacob and Ben may actually be working together in a long con of sorts. I canít get past the fact that Ben really started acting out of character once he saw the resurrected Locke. I know we are supposed to attribute that to his shock of seeing Locke alive. But I think he was actually playing dumb.

Little things like his claiming to not know about the drug plane. I donít believe for a minute that Ben didnít already know about that plane. I think he knew all along that Locke wasnít really Locke and he was just lying low to figure out what to do.

Of course all of this begs the question: Why did he seemingly kill Jacob? I donít think we know enough (or anything) about this supposed loophole at this point, but his appearing to kill Jacob may have been part of a bigger plan to lull him into a false sense of security, while the grand plan is put into place (ďTheyíre comingĒ).

Bottom line: Ben has been too much of a kick ass character to have been so easily bamboozled at this point. We have to assume that Jacob choose Ben as a leader (unlike Locke) and he did it for a reason. I definitely would want Ben on my side if a war was coming.

I know my evidence on this is flimsy, but Iím going with my gut on this one.

Ben is the king of lying. Everyone knows that. He always has the answers, but the last few episodes has made him weak and confused. I hope it's all an act.

MoviePage 05-18-09 02:45 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I was thinking earlier today about some things I would ask myself, or at least stop to consider, if I found myself in a situation where I went back in time with a group of friends and had the opportunity to possibly change the past by detonating an atomic weapon, which might in turn change the future from which I and my friends came. Especially if I were a "man of science" who had acted in a rational manner thus far in my life, with the defining character trait of always wanting to make things right.
  • Am I really going to change the future by doing this?
  • Or am I just making things happen the way they were meant to happen/had already happened?
  • Could I be impacting the future in a negative way rather than a positive one? What if my life is better/more meaningful now than it would have been if things had happened differently? What about my friends' lives? Should I consider what will happen to them if I "reset" the future, such as one of them possibly going to prison, one possibly dying from cancer, etc.? Would it perhaps be better to just leave things alone?
  • In short, why change the future? Was it that bad?
  • If I detonate this weapon, are there any immediate negative consequences? Will I experience physical death in this timeline? Will my friends die? Will other innocent people in the way die?
  • If I reset the future by doing this, will I remember everything that's happened? Or will my life continue as if none of this had ever happened, without my remembering any of it?
  • What happens to my current existence if I change the future in a way that negates its possibility? Will my current conscience jump forward into my future self? Or do I cease to exist as I know myself now? And will the same happen to my friends?
  • Even if my action does change things, am I creating an alternate reality rather than actually changing the future I knew?
  • If so, what are the implications of that?
  • WTF? I'm in 1977? Why am I worried about my relatively insignificant future? Get the President on the line now, I wish to speak with him about the future date of September 11, 2001. And some other stuff that happened in the meantime.
  • Also, get my stock broker on the line right after the President.
  • Ok, before the President.
  • What happens to this island, and the people on it, if I change the future? Will things be worse or better here?
  • In conclusion: Do I perhaps need more information before taking this action?

All of these are things that Jack (and the other characters) apparently didn't think about, question, or discuss with anyone else this season, because the plot needed to move, move, move!

cracksky 05-18-09 02:47 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9451306)
Or maybe the bomb going off did work in averting disaster and Dharma decided to procure another bomb as a failsafe for future disasters.

I agree with this.

In order for the failsafe to be a bomb then the bomb that the losties dropped had to have exploded with minimal damage above ground so that Dharma could continue on with the knowledge of how to contain the electromagnetism and how to ultimately destroy it. Fate Never Changes.

s}{ammer 05-18-09 02:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
http://www.cracked.com/blog/if-the-c...old-the-truth/

taa455 05-18-09 02:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
While watching the events at the Swan play out I kept thinking, why set off the nuke? Just shoot the Radzinsky guy so Dr. Chang can cut the drill off before it hits the energy pocket. Disaster averted!!

cracksky 05-18-09 03:11 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
What's hilarious is the Losties both cause the incident and will provide the information needed (from the future) to contain it before either dying or leaving the island.

Still not certain why Richard said he saw them all die though.

Draven 05-18-09 03:11 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Wow. Really? Another bomb on the island?

People have gone insane.

cracksky 05-18-09 03:17 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Is the rest of Jughead useless without its core or can it still be detonated in part?

pinata242 05-18-09 03:20 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by taa455 (Post 9451680)
While watching the events at the Swan play out I kept thinking, why set off the nuke? Just shoot the Radzinsky guy so Dr. Chang can cut the drill off before it hits the energy pocket. Disaster averted!!

Chang did shut it off, but it was too late.

dsa_shea 05-18-09 03:23 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9451450)
Mainly because Locke's character has always been easily manipulated his entire life. Especially by father-type figures. We've always been convinced from the onset that Locke is something special (and I kinda think he still may be), but Richard, himself, pointed out that he didn't see anything special about Locke.

Ben, on the other hand, has always been 3 moves ahead of everyone. He's the classic manipulator and strategist.

Plus he knows all kinds of crap about that island. Island needs moving? Sure there's donkey wheel behind this wall that'll do the trick. Need to fight the bad guys? Let me pull this drain to summon a smoke monster. Need Locke's daddy? Get the magic box. Need a drug plane? Umm. I got no idea what you're talking about.

I'm just not buying it.

Ben is the classic manipulator but obviously one that Jacob never really endorsed.

IDrinkMolson 05-18-09 03:37 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9450887)
Also, the blast door map was made by Kelvin who, I wouldn't think, have intimate knowledge of what's going on, but speculating based on what he has seen... correct?

June can't get here soon enough so I can re-watch the first two seasons. :lol:

When he showed Desmond how to fake a lock down, Kelvin said, Radzinsky started the blast door map.

When we found out Radzinsky was part of Dharma, I questioned why he would want to make a map. We can't really tell what part Radzinsky did, and what Kelvin did.

Palaver 05-18-09 04:06 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9451752)
Ben is the classic manipulator but obviously one that Jacob never really endorsed.

I think that Jacob did endorse him... at least at one point. Jacob seems to be the one calling the shots for the most part... probably through Richard.

Otherwise, who is the one who picked Ben as the leader in the first place? Seems to me that Richard gets his orders from Jacob. That's why Richard was never convinced about Locke being the leader. Jacob never endorsed him.

I do think that Ben strayed a bit from Jacob's plan and become a bit egotistical, but Jacob punished him for that with the tumor. Jacob sending Jack might have been part of the reconciliation between the two.

Palaver 05-18-09 04:09 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9451719)
Wow. Really? Another bomb on the island?

Maybe not necessarily another bomb, but possibly another atomic device, like a reactor. Something more controlled. Just a thought.

Cardiff Giant11 05-18-09 04:37 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9451869)
Maybe not necessarily another bomb, but possibly another atomic device, like a reactor. Something more controlled. Just a thought.

would explain some of the electrical production and nuclear reactors usually have concrete containment walls. who knows anythings possible.

calhoun07 05-18-09 07:48 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9450063)
Also, does anyone think that the Black Rock has any more significance than just simply a name choice?

There was a theory online a couple years ago about how the island sits on this black rock, and that's what causes the electromagnetic anomalies and perhaps it's what the black smoke monster is made of. The theory (AFAICR...not taking the time to look it all up now because it's LONG) was that the black rock somehow records the memories of people who die, and that might explain how the smoke monster is able to harness that and manifest himself as people who have died.

But, yes...absolutely. The questions could keep on going back forever about it too. How did the people on that old ship know about the black rock, assuming they did and that's why they named the boat after it?

calhoun07 05-18-09 07:50 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9450068)
My point was that we've had at least one instance where we had a character alive and dead at the same time without Smokies "alleged" involvement.

Could it be that there is more than one force on the island that can appear as other people? Perhaps the black smoke monster is able to appear as dead people and the white force (Jacob) can manifest himself as people who are alive, such as Walt.

It would make sense...there are obviously two powers in war for control of the island and they would have similar abilities.

calhoun07 05-18-09 07:54 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9450422)
I'm talking about what I saw as an interesting subplot (the Jack/Juliet/Ben "triangle") being ditched just so they could kill Juliet off for no good reason.

Do you really blame Juliet for "ditching" Jack and Ben? For all she knew, they were off the island and NEVER coming back. And she and Swayer knew that they were sent back to the middle of the 1970's and the time jump anomalies stopped, so they had no realistic way of ever thinking that anybody else from the future could get to them. They settled down for a life in Dharma as anybody else would. And you think Juliet should carry a torch for anybody else not in that same time period?

And we don't know Juliet is dead. There's still debate whether the explosion went off, but even if it did, Desmond managed to survive and he was right above the detonation when he turned the key to destroy the hatch.

Draven 05-18-09 08:08 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
The only people who could possibly believe the bomb didn't go off didn't see the end of the episode.

An impact was supposed to set it off. It didn't go off from the fall for dramatic purposes. Juliet also survived the fall for dramatic purposes. She picked up a rock, banged on it, then in the middle of her dramatic lines, she was cut off as the screen went white (which it has never done) and the LOST logo appeared.

It went off. Again, no need to make it more complicated than it already is.

calhoun07 05-18-09 08:12 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9452433)
The only people who could possibly believe the bomb didn't go off didn't see the end of the episode.

An impact was supposed to set it off. It didn't go off from the fall for dramatic purposes. Juliet also survived the fall for dramatic purposes. She picked up a rock, banged on it, then in the middle of her dramatic lines, she was cut off as the screen went white (which it has never done) and the LOST logo appeared.

It went off. Again, no need to make it more complicated than it already is.

Which is all good, but she could still survive, theoretically, based on Desmond surviving when he had to destroy the hatch.

I don't believe anybody is dead on this show until we see a body and even then I am not so sure.

Draven 05-18-09 08:34 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
That would make it the world's crappiest bomb. She was a foot and a half away from it and had about 5 tons of metal on top of her. I have no doubts that the final season will be about what happened after the bomb went off and all of our "favorite" characters will be back in some way.

And no one is ever dead on the show...period. Even if we do see a body. They've made death a complete non-issues.

dsa_shea 05-18-09 09:58 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9452469)
That would make it the world's crappiest bomb. She was a foot and a half away from it and had about 5 tons of metal on top of her. I have no doubts that the final season will be about what happened after the bomb went off and all of our "favorite" characters will be back in some way.

And no one is ever dead on the show...period. Even if we do see a body. They've made death a complete non-issues.

If the final season is about what happened after the bomb went off, unless it changed the timeline, then it will be a boring ass season. I hope that they used the bomb explosion or lack of to move the story along and not create 4 to 5 episodes out of it.

Aphex Twin 05-19-09 12:39 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I have no idea about casting so this is purely speculation.

Say we take the plane landing in LA and everyone getting off theory. Wouldn't it be kind of logistically very difficult to get some actors back on the show who've been off it awhile? Especially the ones who were offed via drunk driving, etc. or young Walt, or Eko, who wanted off in the first place. They'd have to get back Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie, Claire, Shannon, Boone, Michael, Walt, Nikki, Paulo, Eko, and Cindy.

And what about those who died due to the second plane crash, like Caesar? What's their fate if the survivors never needed to get back to the island?

I think it's just too much of a headache for the show's producers to land everyone in LA.


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