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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

cracksky 05-16-09 06:47 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Interesting reading:

http://www.egyptologyonline.com/the_afterlife.htm

Draven 05-16-09 08:14 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9447750)
Screw the general public and their confusion. In the final season, it's time to stop trying to pander to new viewers and just get on with the show.

I've watched since episode 1 and I'm confused.

I'm not going to go on my usual LOST rant because I think I've done enough of that this season and the finale was just more of the same.

All I will say is that Juliet surviving a fall down a huge hole with tons of metal dumping down on top of her might be the stupidest thing I've ever seen on a television show. But then I remembered I was watching LOST.

I think my biggest disappointment between episode 1 and where we are now is that the show started as a cool and unique mystery of normal people caught on a strange island and has wrapped up the second to last season with immortals and time-travelers. That's not a show I would have been interested in in the first place, so it's probably a good idea they saved all this stupid stuff until now.

cracksky 05-16-09 08:58 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9447811)
I've watched since episode 1 and I'm confused.

I'm not going to go on my usual LOST rant because I think I've done enough of that this season and the finale was just more of the same.

All I will say is that Juliet surviving a fall down a huge hole with tons of metal dumping down on top of her might be the stupidest thing I've ever seen on a television show. But then I remembered I was watching LOST.

I think my biggest disappointment between episode 1 and where we are now is that the show started as a cool and unique mystery of normal people caught on a strange island and has wrapped up the second to last season with immortals and time-travelers. That's not a show I would have been interested in in the first place, so it's probably a good idea they saved all this stupid stuff until now.

Was it any less outrageous in the pilot that a passenger airliner crashed on an island with almost no casualties plus a mysterious monster that killed people for unknown reasons?

As for Juliet surviving the fall, I've heard stories of people riding down with the collapse of a building and surviving with the debris.

Flave 05-16-09 09:23 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9447138)
I tried to base my theory on physics websites, but my wee little brain couldn't exactly wrap itself around all that deep physics stuff. I tried to extrapolate the best theory I could from what I saw.

I guess the question is: What did Faraday want? Does anybody know (from screen shots or otherwise) exactly where he wanted the bomb detonated? Because I think the precise location of where it was detonated had everything to do with achieving the goal, and if it was detonated in the wrong spot, maybe not so much.

Can't be done. Nope. No sir. Nyet. You cannot contain a nuclear explosion with some kind of electromagnetic blah-blah-blah. To do this would require new physics (as in the mythical force fields of science fiction) or Harry Potter's wand (as in magic). Of course, that doesn't mean that that's precisely the MacGuffin the writers will use next season.

And it's not what Faraday wanted, it's what the show-runners want. I think they've totally abandoned all attempts to keep this show in the realm of what's real/possible in science and have dived head first into la-la land. Don't try to explain what's going on with any real-world physics because this season Lost left all that behind like an empty can of Dharma brand tuna.

calhoun07 05-16-09 10:38 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9447854)
Can't be done. Nope. No sir. Nyet. You cannot contain a nuclear explosion with some kind of electromagnetic blah-blah-blah. To do this would require new physics (as in the mythical force fields of science fiction) or Harry Potter's wand (as in magic). Of course, that doesn't mean that that's precisely the MacGuffin the writers will use next season.

And it's not what Faraday wanted, it's what the show-runners want. I think they've totally abandoned all attempts to keep this show in the realm of what's real/possible in science and have dived head first into la-la land. Don't try to explain what's going on with any real-world physics because this season Lost left all that behind like an empty can of Dharma brand tuna.

It's fairly clear that they discarded realistic physics rules in this show. So I do have to wonder if the explosion was contained in that shaft for some reason, some how. It will be interesting to see how they explain that next season.

Elpresidentepez 05-16-09 10:39 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9447854)
Can't be done. Nope. No sir. Nyet. You cannot contain a nuclear explosion with some kind of electromagnetic blah-blah-blah. To do this would require new physics (as in the mythical force fields of science fiction) or Harry Potter's wand (as in magic). Of course, that doesn't mean that that's precisely the MacGuffin the writers will use next season.

And it's not what Faraday wanted, it's what the show-runners want. I think they've totally abandoned all attempts to keep this show in the realm of what's real/possible in science and have dived head first into la-la land. Don't try to explain what's going on with any real-world physics because this season Lost left all that behind like an empty can of Dharma brand tuna.

I know! The first time I saw the SMOKE MONSTER I thought I was watching a documentary.

Flave 05-16-09 10:53 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Elpresidentepez (Post 9447937)
I know! The first time I saw the SMOKE MONSTER I thought I was watching a documentary.

Ok, l'll take a bit of time to educate an idiot, but just this once: There's a big difference between what's POSSIBLE (like nanotechnology based "smoke monsters") and what's IMPOSSIBLE and violate all known science (like EM fields that are able to contain nuclear explosions).

Class dismissed. Now shoo -- go away.

calhoun07 05-16-09 11:22 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9447946)
Ok, l'll take a bit of time to educate an idiot, but just this once: There's a big difference between what's POSSIBLE (like nanotechnology based "smoke monsters") and what's IMPOSSIBLE and violate all known science (like EM fields that are able to contain nuclear explosions).

Class dismissed. Now shoo -- go away.

Fine. Want to talk about real world scenarios and nuclear weapons then? There have been tests done on underground nuclear explosions for us to compare. Assuming by the time the bomb was detonated that the shaft filled completely with metal and that made the explosion contained underground, it would not have an adverse effect on the surface.

From wikipedia:

Underground testing refers to nuclear tests which are conducted under the surface of the earth, at varying depths. Underground nuclear testing made up the majority of nuclear tests by the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War; other forms of nuclear testing were banned by the Limited Test Ban Treaty in 1963. When the explosion is fully contained, underground nuclear testing emits a negligible amount of fallout. However, underground nuclear tests can "vent" to the surface, producing considerable amounts of radioactive debris as a consequence. Underground testing can result in seismic activity depending on the yield of the nuclear device and the composition of the medium it is detonated in, and generally result in the creation of subsidence craters.[1] In 1976, the United States and the USSR agreed to limit the maximum yield of underground tests to 150 kt with the Threshold Test Ban Treaty.
The bolded part would explain why everybody had to wear radiation fall out suits outside of the hatch following the "incident."

But what happens to the radioactive debris? Because we see during the purge it appears Darmah is still living on the surface and without any worry of contanimation, and even though Desmond feared that he would need a suit to live outside of the hatch, maybe it was the inside of the hatch that was radioactive, thus the "quarantine" door placed on it that could not be opened from the outside.

But if that's the case then why wouldn't Desmond and the Losties who spent time down there be sick? Could it be that the nuclear power/fall out whatever was contained under the hatch and that's what was released when Desmond turned the key? Judging from the subsidence crater left by Desmond turning the key, perhaps the nuclear weapon didn't go off when Juliet hit it? (There is debate on whether or not it did.) If it didn't, perhaps it was unsafe for them to remove the bomb and they left it where it was and Desmond turning the key actually detonated it? I really have an urging to go back and watch season two again.

Very curious indeed, but the fact that the explosion took place underground and we saw evidence of radioactivity on the island already, it's clear that the Losties are fully responsible for not only Ben becoming evil, but also the Incident. They caused their own plane to crash. The morons.

johnnysd 05-16-09 11:49 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
FWIW, I think that the timeline has changed. I believe that when Desmond turned the fail safe key he detonated the bomb. Now though, the bomb has already been detonated and neutralized this pocket of energy

Flave 05-16-09 12:01 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9447983)
Fine. Want to talk about real world scenarios and nuclear weapons then? There have been tests done on underground nuclear explosions for us to compare. Assuming by the time the bomb was detonated that the shaft filled completely with metal and that made the explosion contained underground, it would not have an adverse effect on the surface.

Yes, but these test are normally done at depths measured in the thousands of feet. Typically, a 100 kt bomb would be detonated at about 2000-3000 feet. And obviously the bigger the yield, the deeper you go. These guys did not dig anywhere near that deep. Juliette would have been falling for quite a while and last time I checked the only person I know who could survive a fall of that magnitude was Jesus Christ.

Edit: And it's not just a hole you have to dig for these tests. You also have to excavate a big cavern around the bomb in order to contain the explosion. These guys built no such cavern.

BTW, I just re-watched the clip where Sayid and Jack are discussing what to do with the bomb. Sayid makes a remarkable statement. He says that the "core" they're pulling out of the bomb is itself a thermonuclear device. (I had assumed they pulled the smaller atomic device used to trigger hydrogen bombs.) Now, the word "thermonuclear" implies a fusion process which implies a hydrogen bomb. So more Lost magic -- Jack is carrying a hydrogen bomb in a backpack! Amazing technology, especially for a bomb built in the fifties!

And BTW a hydrogen bomb's yield is measured in MEGAtons, not kilotons. These are usually detonated a mile or more underground.

DthRdrX 05-16-09 12:29 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
There a plenty of videos on youtube of underground hydrogen/atomic bomb testing. I think it's possible that the Dharma members started wearing the suits asap after the incident, and that Kelvin was just being precautious by the time Desmond showed up.

The bigger tell is that Dharma installed the blast doors into the swan. Perhaps they built them in case someone tried to destroy the station again? Of course, the blast doors don't even protect all of the station, but they have to have a purpose.

dsa_shea 05-16-09 12:34 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
My guess is that this device never actually went off. I would guess that the incident in the digging and the release of energy by Dharma. I would also venture to guess that the device the Losties used to try to change the future might be faulty and be inconsequential to the future or maybe it is just buried under the concrete that Dharma used to contain this energy pocket. We wont really know until next year. My guess is that if Juliet is dead we might see her body being used as a vessel for either Jacob or his nemesis.

XavierMike 05-16-09 12:45 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
This just occurred to me. In season 6, I bet we are going to see flashback scenes of the Enemy off island influencing the Others to come to the island the same way Jacob influenced the Losties.

dsa_shea 05-16-09 12:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by XavierMike (Post 9448116)
This just occurred to me. In season 6, I bet we are going to see flashback scenes of the Enemy off island influencing the Others to come to the island the same way Jacob influenced the Losties.

Jacob also brought "The Others" there as well. The other guy wants nothing to do with humanity other than find his little "loophole" which he used Locke's body and pissed Ben off in order to pull it off.

IDrinkMolson 05-16-09 01:00 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9444631)
That was the theory I posted. However, this doesn't explain why they wouldn't question Locke when he didn't ask to go back to the cabin instead of walking for miles on a beach to get to Jacob when he never would have known for Jacob to live there.

I was wondering about this too. Faux Locke knew where Jacob was, so he could have just said, Hey Ben, lets go kill Jacob. Faux Locke asked Richard to take him to see Jacob.
It seems he wanted to bring Richard and the rest of the Others to the statue.


Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9445288)
I thought Sayid was shown a picture and told that she was killed in L.A. by Widmore's people. This is what gave him his motivation to kill for Ben. Now we see he was there next to her when it happened?

Although he was standing there, I don't think he knew it was Widmore's people until Ben showed him the photograph of the guy. And, it was only five days after her death.
From Lostpedia:


Originally Posted by lostpedia
The circumstantial evidence of a traffic photograph pointed to Ishmael Bakir, an employee of Charles Widmore, as the killer. Sayid was a pallbearer at her funeral in Tikrit, Iraq, five days later. After learning the truth about her death from Ben, Sayid killed Bakir in a fit of rage, and insisted that Ben give him the name of the next employee of Widmore who needed to be killed.

I also thought it was interesting that Eloise was also a leader of the Others. I don't remember that being mentioned before.

I loves me some Elizabeth Mitchell, so I hope she's back. I don't think anyone really died, except Jacob's body. The only thing I can think why we didn't see Jacob visit Juliet in the past was because she becomes an Other.

On a side note, I noticed the dog playing Vincent is now actually a male dog. I saw his junk. I guess Madison got too old. Or, alternate reality!!!

DthRdrX 05-16-09 01:13 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by IDrinkMolson (Post 9448133)
I loves me some Elizabeth Mitchell, so I hope she's back. I don't think anyone really died, except Jacob's body. The only thing I can think why we didn't see Jacob visit Juliet in the past was because she becomes an Other.

On a side note, I noticed the dog playing Vincent is now actually a male dog. I saw his junk. I guess Madison got too old. Or, alternate reality!!!


1.) Elizabeth Mitchell is going to be in another TV show next year, so it's probable she's done as a major character on Lost.

2.) I was wondering if that was a different dog but I wasn't sure.

celmendo 05-16-09 01:26 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
So if Jacob has a real body why the whole cabin thing? (reading some other posts I think black shirt was trapped in the cabin not Jacob since he was all over the place collecting people to come to the island) I like the Horus vs. Seth comparisons. Reading the description of Seth it seems the statue is based more on his mythology than Horus.

Why were they taking children in Season 1 and testing on Walt.

golden_rod 05-16-09 02:15 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DthRdrX (Post 9448143)
1.) Elizabeth Mitchell is going to be in another TV show next year, so it's probable she's done as a major character on Lost.

2.) I was wondering if that was a different dog but I wasn't sure.

It doesn't look like her "V" is going to be picked up, so hopefully she returns. The way they killed her off was ridiculous, as was her relationship with Sawyer. Two seasons of her being in love with Jack, then he comes back to the island and they ignore each other. It kinda made me LOL.

Draven 05-16-09 02:24 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9447832)
Was it any less outrageous in the pilot that a passenger airliner crashed on an island with almost no casualties plus a mysterious monster that killed people for unknown reasons?

As for Juliet surviving the fall, I've heard stories of people riding down with the collapse of a building and surviving with the debris.

There were lots of causalities on the plane. As for the smoke monster, they get away with making stuff up there because it doesn't exist in reality.

Juliet surviving that fall to make a dramatic gesture to cap off the season has as much basis in reality as her manifesting the ability to fly.

Which come to think of it...might have happened. It would fit right in with the current show direction.

HE Pennypacker 05-16-09 02:39 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9448222)
There were lots of causalities on the plane. As for the smoke monster, they get away with making stuff up there because it doesn't exist in reality.

Juliet surviving that fall to make a dramatic gesture to cap off the season has as much basis in reality as her manifesting the ability to fly.

Which come to think of it...might have happened. It would fit right in with the current show direction.

Though I still enjoy the show, I tend to agree with your sentiments. The first season is still the best for me. The show was much more realistic then. And like you, that is what kept me watching. I also would have passed had I known it'd turn into this convoluted mumbo-jumbo nonsense. I was always hoping for a "real-world" explanation to everything that occurred on the show, but that is impossible now. Too much science fiction.

cracksky 05-16-09 02:47 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9448222)
There were lots of causalities on the plane. As for the smoke monster, they get away with making stuff up there because it doesn't exist in reality.

Juliet surviving that fall to make a dramatic gesture to cap off the season has as much basis in reality as her manifesting the ability to fly.

Which come to think of it...might have happened. It would fit right in with the current show direction.

For a plane that breaks apart in mid-air there were very few deaths.

Both Juliet (with the chains around her) and the bomb were pulled in by the magnet so it wasn't a straight fall to a hard surface (guessing).

calhoun07 05-16-09 02:48 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9448049)
...last time I checked the only person I know who could survive a fall of that magnitude was Jesus Christ.

I don't recall that story in the Bible. It must have been in one of the Johns.

You know, you are really trying too hard to put real world physics into a fictional TV show. The island has properties that are not found in real life, so you have to give this show some leeway in how a nuclear bomb is going to react when detonated on the island.

calhoun07 05-16-09 02:51 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9448106)
My guess is that this device never actually went off.

I actually am leaning more towards that theory. I believe it's detonated when Desmond turns the key. Perhaps they bury it further into the ground so it is down far enough so when it goes all all it does is leave the crater and not destroy the entire island.

So I think either the bomb went off and the unusual properties of the island had an unexpected result or the bomb never went off and actually detonates to destroy the station when Desmond turns the key. I am sure the answer will be in season six either way!

Flave 05-16-09 03:03 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9448248)
You know, you are really trying too hard to put real world physics into a fictional TV show. The island has properties that are not found in real life, so you have to give this show some leeway in how a nuclear bomb is going to react when detonated on the island.

As I posted in another thread, I hold different shows to different standards, although I'm not really not sure what my internal formula is. But I do know that I hold this show to a higher standard because the show-runners have always maintained that, in the end, everything will have a real-world explanation that doesn't violate known science. So yeah, it's only a TV show. But I feel I need to call them on their big lie.

dsa_shea 05-16-09 03:04 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by celmendo (Post 9448166)
So if Jacob has a real body why the whole cabin thing? (reading some other posts I think black shirt was trapped in the cabin not Jacob since he was all over the place collecting people to come to the island) I like the Horus vs. Seth comparisons. Reading the description of Seth it seems the statue is based more on his mythology than Horus.

Why were they taking children in Season 1 and testing on Walt.

My guess is that those who have special powers like Walt supposedly had needed to be out of the "game". The Others couldn't know this since it would break the rules of the game but they were told that he was "special" and it would be better if he were not there. Now, why players like Miles and Hurley wouldn't have to go might be tied in to the type of abilties they have: mainly being able to communicate with the dead. Maybe those in charge and Jacob (or even the other guy) realized that Walt would know too much and had to send him away. Also, I think kids are variables that they didn't want involved in the game thus this is why you only see kids with the Dharma people since they were not directly tied to the game that was being played.


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