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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

Palaver 05-18-09 04:09 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9451719)
Wow. Really? Another bomb on the island?

Maybe not necessarily another bomb, but possibly another atomic device, like a reactor. Something more controlled. Just a thought.

Cardiff Giant11 05-18-09 04:37 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9451869)
Maybe not necessarily another bomb, but possibly another atomic device, like a reactor. Something more controlled. Just a thought.

would explain some of the electrical production and nuclear reactors usually have concrete containment walls. who knows anythings possible.

calhoun07 05-18-09 07:48 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9450063)
Also, does anyone think that the Black Rock has any more significance than just simply a name choice?

There was a theory online a couple years ago about how the island sits on this black rock, and that's what causes the electromagnetic anomalies and perhaps it's what the black smoke monster is made of. The theory (AFAICR...not taking the time to look it all up now because it's LONG) was that the black rock somehow records the memories of people who die, and that might explain how the smoke monster is able to harness that and manifest himself as people who have died.

But, yes...absolutely. The questions could keep on going back forever about it too. How did the people on that old ship know about the black rock, assuming they did and that's why they named the boat after it?

calhoun07 05-18-09 07:50 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9450068)
My point was that we've had at least one instance where we had a character alive and dead at the same time without Smokies "alleged" involvement.

Could it be that there is more than one force on the island that can appear as other people? Perhaps the black smoke monster is able to appear as dead people and the white force (Jacob) can manifest himself as people who are alive, such as Walt.

It would make sense...there are obviously two powers in war for control of the island and they would have similar abilities.

calhoun07 05-18-09 07:54 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9450422)
I'm talking about what I saw as an interesting subplot (the Jack/Juliet/Ben "triangle") being ditched just so they could kill Juliet off for no good reason.

Do you really blame Juliet for "ditching" Jack and Ben? For all she knew, they were off the island and NEVER coming back. And she and Swayer knew that they were sent back to the middle of the 1970's and the time jump anomalies stopped, so they had no realistic way of ever thinking that anybody else from the future could get to them. They settled down for a life in Dharma as anybody else would. And you think Juliet should carry a torch for anybody else not in that same time period?

And we don't know Juliet is dead. There's still debate whether the explosion went off, but even if it did, Desmond managed to survive and he was right above the detonation when he turned the key to destroy the hatch.

Draven 05-18-09 08:08 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
The only people who could possibly believe the bomb didn't go off didn't see the end of the episode.

An impact was supposed to set it off. It didn't go off from the fall for dramatic purposes. Juliet also survived the fall for dramatic purposes. She picked up a rock, banged on it, then in the middle of her dramatic lines, she was cut off as the screen went white (which it has never done) and the LOST logo appeared.

It went off. Again, no need to make it more complicated than it already is.

calhoun07 05-18-09 08:12 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9452433)
The only people who could possibly believe the bomb didn't go off didn't see the end of the episode.

An impact was supposed to set it off. It didn't go off from the fall for dramatic purposes. Juliet also survived the fall for dramatic purposes. She picked up a rock, banged on it, then in the middle of her dramatic lines, she was cut off as the screen went white (which it has never done) and the LOST logo appeared.

It went off. Again, no need to make it more complicated than it already is.

Which is all good, but she could still survive, theoretically, based on Desmond surviving when he had to destroy the hatch.

I don't believe anybody is dead on this show until we see a body and even then I am not so sure.

Draven 05-18-09 08:34 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
That would make it the world's crappiest bomb. She was a foot and a half away from it and had about 5 tons of metal on top of her. I have no doubts that the final season will be about what happened after the bomb went off and all of our "favorite" characters will be back in some way.

And no one is ever dead on the show...period. Even if we do see a body. They've made death a complete non-issues.

dsa_shea 05-18-09 09:58 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9452469)
That would make it the world's crappiest bomb. She was a foot and a half away from it and had about 5 tons of metal on top of her. I have no doubts that the final season will be about what happened after the bomb went off and all of our "favorite" characters will be back in some way.

And no one is ever dead on the show...period. Even if we do see a body. They've made death a complete non-issues.

If the final season is about what happened after the bomb went off, unless it changed the timeline, then it will be a boring ass season. I hope that they used the bomb explosion or lack of to move the story along and not create 4 to 5 episodes out of it.

Aphex Twin 05-19-09 12:39 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I have no idea about casting so this is purely speculation.

Say we take the plane landing in LA and everyone getting off theory. Wouldn't it be kind of logistically very difficult to get some actors back on the show who've been off it awhile? Especially the ones who were offed via drunk driving, etc. or young Walt, or Eko, who wanted off in the first place. They'd have to get back Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie, Claire, Shannon, Boone, Michael, Walt, Nikki, Paulo, Eko, and Cindy.

And what about those who died due to the second plane crash, like Caesar? What's their fate if the survivors never needed to get back to the island?

I think it's just too much of a headache for the show's producers to land everyone in LA.

aintnosin 05-19-09 01:09 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9451738)
Is the rest of Jughead useless without its core or can it still be detonated in part?

They used the nuclear trigger (which is basically a fission bomb inside the fusion bomb). Without it, Jughead is basically a big can of nothing.

cracksky 05-19-09 07:50 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9452411)
And we don't know Juliet is dead. There's still debate whether the explosion went off, but even if it did, Desmond managed to survive and he was right above the detonation when he turned the key to destroy the hatch.

Desmond turned the failsafe key and the bomb would have to have been close underneath and encased in concrete. The hatch imploded and the impact barely reached the surface but caused the sky to turn purple and a loud buzzing sound. The door blew off and into the air, landing at the beach camp. Desmond flashed out of the hatch and into the jungle naked. Juliet's bomb was over at the bottom of the hatch entrance where the broken ladder will be. If the same thing happened to Juliet then she will flash out of there as well (and hopefully end up naked). :D

The question is where another bomb would come from but my guess is that Radzinsky knows where to find one.

MoviePage 05-19-09 10:36 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9452469)
And no one is ever dead on the show...period. Even if we do see a body. They've made death a complete non-issues.

I agree with most of your points in this thread, but not so sure about this one. Now that we know what happened with Locke, and that the same (or very similar) thing happened with Christian, I'm pretty convinced that the producers' declaration of "dead is dead" is true. What else are you basing this on? (And even though I was disappointed in the Jin death fake-out, we never saw a body or an actual death there.)

cracksky 05-19-09 12:06 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9453423)
(And even though I was disappointed in the Jin death fake-out, we never saw a body or an actual death there.)

There was no fake-out there. They showed Jin on the boat then Sun screaming then they cut away for 22 seconds (for Christian's appearance) then cut back for the explosion. Plenty of time for Jin to leap off and into the water.

Draven 05-19-09 12:20 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9453639)
There was no fake-out there. They showed Jin on the boat then Sun screaming then they cut away for 22 seconds (for Christian's appearance) then cut back for the explosion. Plenty of time for Jin to leap off and into the water.

...and be the only survivor? Sure, that makes sense. See how far you can get away from a big boat in 22 seconds.


Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9453423)
I agree with most of your points in this thread, but not so sure about this one. Now that we know what happened with Locke, and that the same (or very similar) thing happened with Christian, I'm pretty convinced that the producers' declaration of "dead is dead" is true. What else are you basing this on? (And even though I was disappointed in the Jin death fake-out, we never saw a body or an actual death there.)

I'm just saying that death means nothing because you get to see all of the actors again and again, they still interact with other characters and there is no sense of loss because they are always popping back up.

Aphex Twin 05-19-09 12:25 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Jin could actually have died and his real corpse will turn up in season 6. You don't know if Jin pulled a Locke too.

Groucho 05-19-09 12:34 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I think EVERYBODY died in the plane crash, and the island is just purgatory.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND?!?

cracksky 05-19-09 12:38 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9453684)
...and be the only survivor? Sure, that makes sense. See how far you can get away from a big boat in 22 seconds.

Jin was probably the only one on the boat that knew of the C4 and how imminent the explosion was. All he had to do was jump in the water and dive down underneath as far as he could until the main fireball subsided then resurface away from debris. Not easy but doable.


Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9453684)
I'm just saying that death means nothing because you get to see all of the actors again and again, they still interact with other characters and there is no sense of loss because they are always popping back up.

I don't get that feeling at all from this show. I don't feel cheated from the writers.

It's not a cheat if a character dies then you see them again in flashback or talking to others. This show does not have linear storytelling so it's not A->B->character dies->C->D->character dies->etc...Any show that bounces back and forth in time and uses flashbacks is bound to reuse actors after their characters have died.

Aphex Twin 05-19-09 01:09 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9453713)
I think EVERYBODY died in the plane crash, and the island is just purgatory.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND?!?

Interesting theory. I can see that as a possibility. Sayid got to have sex with Shannon though. Sawyer did it with Ana Lucia and Juliet. Jack boned Kate. Hurley did the deed with Libby. Rose and Bernard screw all the time. I thought that wasn't possible in purgatory?

Flave 05-19-09 02:09 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9453713)
I think EVERYBODY died in the plane crash, and the island is just purgatory.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND?!?

And knock your socks off. Good luck getting them back on.

Mordred 05-19-09 02:23 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DVD Josh (Post 9450710)
FWIW, the blast door map basically says that the polar bears were used for science experiments (adapting species outside of their natural habitat).

The question one should have is if the FDW is used to transport a person off the Island to Tunisia, what sense does it make for a polar bear to be the one to turn it and leave?

I realize this is a few days old, but I just finished reading the thread.

The FDW ISN'T used for transporting a person off the island, they use a sub fro that. :) The FDW is used for moving the island. The transportation to Tunisia is an unfortunate side-effect which is why they would breed and train polar bears to do it instead of just having some guy put on a heavy coat and go turn the wheel.

d2cheer 05-19-09 02:47 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9453713)
I think EVERYBODY died in the plane crash, and the island is just purgatory.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND?!?


OR someone survived and they are in a coma and they are imagining the whole thing...


They suddenly wake up and LOST.... ends.

Flave 05-19-09 03:32 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Mordred (Post 9453989)
The FDW is used for moving the island. The transportation to Tunisia is an unfortunate side-effect which is why they would breed and train polar bears to do it instead of just having some guy put on a heavy coat and go turn the wheel.

Why did they need a POLAR BEAR? Why not use a...well...donkey? I mean, donkeys are a heck of a lot more manageable than polar bears. And please don't tell me that they used bears because it's a little cold.

I guess not much drama in finding dead donkeys in the Tunisian desert.

MoviePage 05-19-09 03:37 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9453639)
There was no fake-out there. They showed Jin on the boat then Sun screaming then they cut away for 22 seconds (for Christian's appearance) then cut back for the explosion. Plenty of time for Jin to leap off and into the water.

They showed Sun screaming right as the explosion happened, and crying immediately after it.

I don't think you can argue that it wasn't shot and edited with the intention of making us think that Jin had died.

maxfisher 05-19-09 03:50 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9453713)
I think EVERYBODY died in the plane crash, and the island is just purgatory.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND?!?

Read this very carefully. You need to find someone important to you. Someone that you'll still know in 2009. The next time you have one of your flashes, you MUST call this person.

RoboDad 05-19-09 04:01 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9454145)
They showed Sun screaming right as the explosion happened, and crying immediately after it.

I don't think you can argue that it wasn't shot and edited with the intention of making us think that Jin had died.

I would argue that it was shot and edited to allow people to jump to the conclusion that Jin had died. But there was nothing in the scene that gave any kind of definitive proof that he had died. Not the way they did when any of the other major characters have died.

MoviePage 05-19-09 04:06 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by RoboDad (Post 9454196)
I would argue that it was shot and edited to allow people to jump to the conclusion that Jin had died. But there was nothing in the scene that gave any kind of definitive proof that he had died. Not the way they did when any of the other major characters have died.

Yes, exactly. Which is why I referred to it as a "fake-out" rather than a "lie." :)

RoboDad 05-19-09 04:22 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9454214)
Yes, exactly. Which is why I referred to it as a "fake-out" rather than a "lie." :)

OK, maybe it's just a matter of semantics, then. No one made anyone think Jin was dead. They may have led viewers up to the edge of a cliff and shouted "JUMP!", but they didn't push anyone over the edge. Everyone who jumped did so on their own. :D

cracksky 05-19-09 05:24 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by RoboDad (Post 9454251)
OK, maybe it's just a matter of semantics, then. No one made anyone think Jin was dead. They may have led viewers up to the edge of a cliff and shouted "JUMP!", but they didn't push anyone over the edge. Everyone who jumped did so on their own. :D

They definitely wanted us to think he was dead but they cut away for a reason.

Classic subtle audience manipulation with great editing and a wonderful performance by Yunjin Kim with her chilling scream to sell Jin's death.

Of course, since we now know that Jin plays a part in '70's Dharma, maybe the island helped him survive the explosion.

Boba Fett 05-19-09 05:33 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9453713)
I think EVERYBODY died in the plane crash, and the island is just purgatory.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND?!?

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but in case not, the creators actually confirmed that this theory is false.

Decker 05-19-09 05:50 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Boba Fett (Post 9454357)
I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic...

When you see ANY post by that particular author, that is a VERY safe assumption.

Mordred 05-19-09 10:16 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 9454141)
Why did they need a POLAR BEAR? Why not use a...well...donkey? I mean, donkeys are a heck of a lot more manageable than polar bears. And please don't tell me that they used bears because it's a little cold.

I guess not much drama in finding dead donkeys in the Tunisian desert.

Simple explanation: You can't train a donkey to walk down a ladder. Any more questions smart guy? ;)

cracksky 05-19-09 11:07 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
They were already doing experiments with Polar Bears at the Hydra station so they borrowed one and had it turn the wheel because they didn't want to risk the life of a human without testing it first. I'm sure they did their testing in the chamber at The Orchid but this is completely different. It vanished but they didn't know where it ended up. They eventually figured out that the exit point was Tunisia probably via an very scared volunteer. I'm thinking that Ben might have been the first to try it. The assistant in the Orchid video looks like a Ben that might be around 19 years old (in 1981). They might've sent the dead guy (with the tooth that flew out of his head) through the chamber first to make sure a human would come through in one piece.

RoboDad 05-20-09 01:03 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9454342)
They definitely wanted us to think he was dead but they cut away for a reason.

Classic subtle audience manipulation with great editing and a wonderful performance by Yunjin Kim with her chilling scream to sell Jin's death.

Well, I don't know what else to say except that if they wanted all of us to think Jin was dead beyond doubt, they failed miserably, at least in my case. I wondered whether he might be dead, and it was clear that Sun thought he was dead, but I never assumed that to be the case, not even for a minute.

Maybe having observed such "classic audience manipulation" for over 40 years makes it easy to not make such assumptions. But then, I wasn't completely convinced that Charlie was dead for a long time. :lol:

DarkestPhoenix 05-20-09 03:24 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cleaver (Post 9443417)
I think the smoke monster can only appear as people who died make that people whose corpses are on the island: Ben's daughter, Jack's dad, Eko's brother, Locke.


Originally Posted by John Slider (Post 9443425)
Locke didn't die on the island.

Neither did Kate's horse.

DarkestPhoenix 05-20-09 03:25 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by XavierMike (Post 9443748)
I'm thinking that Jack is going to replace Jacob. Or, maybe Jacob's body that we saw is actually some who died pre-black rock that he is inhabiting. Perhaps he will animate another body now? Faraday?

Wow, awesome...even moreso if he reanimated Locke! Locke vs Locke.

Wild.

dsa_shea 05-20-09 08:24 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix (Post 9455244)
Neither did Kate's horse.

Maybe the horse is a look alike from a once thriving western civilization on the island.

The Bus 05-20-09 10:13 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Ancient civilizations on the island? That's ludicrous.

Flave 05-20-09 11:10 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Mordred (Post 9454905)
Simple explanation: You can't train a donkey to walk down a ladder. Any more questions smart guy? ;)

Pffffftttttt...have you seen Shrek?! Donkeys can do almost anything.

Flave 05-20-09 11:10 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by The Bus (Post 9455620)
Ancient civilizations on the island? That's ludicrous.

How about future civilizations then?


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