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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

Baron Of Hell 05-17-09 06:11 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DJariya (Post 9449089)
Loved the finale. Very entertaining 2 hours.

I don't feel like sorting through 500+ posts, so I wanted to know what the generous consensus thought the "Other" Locke was?

Locke's a cylon. Believe it.

golden_rod 05-17-09 06:55 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9449254)
Um...that is not an answer. There needs to be a follow-up question or two. If you were Ben or Locke and knew that Richard didn't age...wouldn't you ask him a LOT of questions about it? I'm tired of the cryptic "I've been here a long time" bullshit. How long, why and how is it possible are the next questions. And that's just one example of these arguably intelligent and "real world" people just accepting the weirdest shit in the world without a second thought.

It was ok at first when none of the castaways knew anything that was going on because they were all in the same situation. Now that all of these other characters that DO know what's going on have been introduced, it's time to start asking for straightforward answers.

That's one of the biggest annoyances of the show; the fact that the characters refuse to show each other their cards. I can understand the writers wanting to keep things close to their vests, but not at the expense of the intelligence of the characters.

Why, exactly, did Jack never say to the other Losties "Hey, dudes! I've met Desmond before! Coincidence...?" It's just fucking asinine. His nephew disappears and he doesn't ask one single thing about him because Kate tells him not to?

golden_rod 05-17-09 07:02 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9449340)
Not to mention we are talking about three years here. Juliet could realistically be over with Jack after three years. It's not that unusual.

We aren't talking about real life here, we're talking about the way a television show is written. They build their "romance" for two years, toss it aside, and the two don't say much of anything to each other when they finally come in contact again. It just didn't ring true for some reason, especially after the writers went to great lengths to establish that Ben had an obsessive love for Juliet & Juliet confessed her love for Jack. It seemed like a somewhat interesting romantic subplot (especially when compared to that heinous Jack/Kate/Sawyer shit) that was dropped just so they could kill off a great character for shock value.

B.A. 05-17-09 08:33 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
This show is ridiculous on so many levels. Always has been.

Glad I finally watched the finale.

Juliette is still my favorite character.

spainlinx0 05-17-09 08:43 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9449938)
We aren't talking about real life here, we're talking about the way a television show is written. They build their "romance" for two years, toss it aside, and the two don't say much of anything to each other when they finally come in contact again. It just didn't ring true for some reason, especially after the writers went to great lengths to establish that Ben had an obsessive love for Juliet & Juliet confessed her love for Jack. It seemed like a somewhat interesting romantic subplot (especially when compared to that heinous Jack/Kate/Sawyer shit) that was dropped just so they could kill off a great character for shock value.

Two years of the show is NOT 2 years real time. This plot line I have no problem with. Didn't Juliet and Jack date for basically three weeks or something show time?

dsa_shea 05-17-09 08:54 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 9450039)
Two years of the show is NOT 2 years real time. This plot line I have no problem with. Didn't Juliet and Jack date for basically three weeks or something show time?

I was thinking the same thing before I read your post. Thanks for putting down what was on my mind. Think of how many 2 to 3 week flings we have had in our lives and then just moved on from them and never looked back. This isn't much different. She cared about him for a few weeks and then he just went away. She found someone else that she could love and did for 3 years. Not hard to understand why she didn't give 2 shits about Jack upon his return especially when he selfishly left her behind to go back home.

dsa_shea 05-17-09 08:58 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Also, does anyone think that the Black Rock has any more significance than just simply a name choice? Seems rather apparent that it has to have some underlying meaning to the series. Also, hopefully they will explain where Eloise, Widmore and the rest of the no names with the Others have come from. Why are they there and how long have they been there? Why was Eloise a leader and now living in the real world? Was she given the boot a la Widmore? Does anyone think that Negative Nelly (Jacob's Nemesis) brought the Dharma Initiative there to create a hostile environment for those that Jacob brought to the island?

Michael Corvin 05-17-09 09:02 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DthRdrX (Post 9449778)
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not Michael? Anyway:

1.) The doctor's body washed up on the island before we saw him die, due to the time discrepancy coming and going from the island.

My point was that we've had at least one instance where we had a character alive and dead at the same time without Smokies "alleged" involvement.

I forgot my timing on the Sawyer example.

Someone help me, my memory fails me, did Jack actually see Christian in the coffin before setting foot on Oceanic 815? Do we know he was actually dead to begin with?

dsa_shea 05-17-09 09:24 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9450068)
My point was that we've had at least one instance where we had a character alive and dead at the same time without Smokies "alleged" involvement.

I forgot my timing on the Sawyer example.

Someone help me, my memory fails me, did Jack actually see Christian in the coffin before setting foot on Oceanic 815? Do we know he was actually dead to begin with?

I believe that Jack at some point, during the first season, said he saw his father's body and he was dead. We'll have to take his word for it.

DthRdrX 05-17-09 11:25 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9450105)
I believe that Jack at some point, during the first season, said he saw his father's body and he was dead. We'll have to take his word for it.

Right on. He saw the dead body in Australia. The body was no where to be found on the island though. I'm going to post my thoughts on this, probably tommorow.

golden_rod 05-18-09 01:25 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 9450039)
Two years of the show is NOT 2 years real time. This plot line I have no problem with. Didn't Juliet and Jack date for basically three weeks or something show time?

Really? Considering Jack had only been on the island for 100 days prior to his return, I figured it would have been obvious that I was referring to the two years (read: seasons) the writers spent establishing their relationship. Guess not.

Again, I'm not talking about real life situations & how two old flames would react to each other after three years. This is Lost, the show where characters act so stupidly that it could almost be considered a form of mild retardation. I'm talking about what I saw as an interesting subplot (the Jack/Juliet/Ben "triangle") being ditched just so they could kill Juliet off for no good reason.

Gunde 05-18-09 01:37 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9450422)
Really? Considering Jack had only been on the island for 100 days prior to his return, I figured it would have been obvious that I was referring to the two years (read: seasons) the writers spent establishing their relationship. Guess not.

Again, I'm not talking about real life situations & how two old flames would react to each other after three years. This is Lost, the show where characters act so stupidly that it could almost be considered a form of mild retardation. I'm talking about what I saw as an interesting subplot (the Jack/Juliet/Ben "triangle") being ditched just so they could kill Juliet off for no good reason.

1. You don't know if she's really dead.

2. If she is you don't know if it was for no good reason.

Baron Of Hell 05-18-09 04:34 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9449929)
Why, exactly, did Jack never say to the other Losties "Hey, dudes! I've met Desmond before! Coincidence...?" It's just fucking asinine. His nephew disappears and he doesn't ask one single thing about him because Kate tells him not to?

Jack didn't remember meeting Desmond. It isn't like they dated for months or something. Jack had a 5 minute conversation with him years before they crashed on the island. There is no possible way they would recall meeting each other after such a minor meeting.

kaze0 05-18-09 05:20 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Juliet is dead, her purpose was to set off the bomb. That's why she didn't die or pass out when she fell down the shaft, much like Michael couldn't die until the ship exploded. Stop trying to figure out if she's alive or not.

dino88 05-18-09 05:28 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by kaze0 (Post 9450528)
Juliet is dead, her purpose was to set off the bomb. That's why she didn't die or pass out when she fell down the shaft, much like Michael couldn't die until the ship exploded. Stop trying to figure out if she's alive or not.

Juliet is not dead. She traveled forward in time to just before the Oceanic 6 decided to return to the island. She followed Ben and watched as he shot Desmond. After Ben was knocked into the water, Juliet grabbed his gun and killed Penny. I can't believe Penny is dead.

DVD Josh 05-18-09 08:43 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9449168)
:hscratch: I thought polar bears were used to turn the frozen donkey wheel? They showed that to move the island a giant wheel needs to be turned, that is frequently frozen tight. They showed that turning it involves the person leaving the island and ending up in the Tunisian desert. The showed the skeletal remains of a polar bear with a Dharma collar being discovered by Charlotte in a desert.

Short of Ben saying what exactly they are for, I thought this is one of the mysteries that has a definite answer.

What I don't get is why the FDW room was sealed off.

FWIW, the blast door map basically says that the polar bears were used for science experiments (adapting species outside of their natural habitat).

The question one should have is if the FDW is used to transport a person off the Island to Tunisia, what sense does it make for a polar bear to be the one to turn it and leave?

Dr. Henry Jones, Jr. 05-18-09 09:01 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dino88 (Post 9450532)
Juliet is not dead. She traveled forward in time to just before the Oceanic 6 decided to return to the island. She followed Ben and watched as he shot Desmond. After Ben was knocked into the water, Juliet grabbed his gun and killed Penny. I can't believe Penny is dead.

I did not see this episode, when was it? Or is that a spoiler for next season?

DVD Josh 05-18-09 09:14 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Lunatikk (Post 9450736)
I did not see this episode, when was it? Or is that a spoiler for next season?

It's not any spoiler I've heard of, I'll say that much. It seems like rampant speculation to me.

MoviePage 05-18-09 10:13 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dino88 (Post 9450532)
Juliet is not dead. She traveled forward in time to just before the Oceanic 6 decided to return to the island. She followed Ben and watched as he shot Desmond. After Ben was knocked into the water, Juliet grabbed his gun and killed Penny. I can't believe Penny is dead.

:lol:

Good one.

Michael Corvin 05-18-09 10:16 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DVD Josh (Post 9450710)
FWIW, the blast door map basically says that the polar bears were used for science experiments (adapting species outside of their natural habitat).

The question one should have is if the FDW is used to transport a person off the Island to Tunisia, what sense does it make for a polar bear to be the one to turn it and leave?

Considering they never use the FDW(Ben's been there, what, 40 years and never had to turn it), 2-3 polar bears would suffice. In that time having them adapt and breed would also make sense.

Also, the blast door map was made by Kelvin who, I wouldn't think, have intimate knowledge of what's going on, but speculating based on what he has seen... correct?

June can't get here soon enough so I can re-watch the first two seasons. :lol:

MoviePage 05-18-09 10:17 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Baron Of Hell (Post 9450508)
Jack didn't remember meeting Desmond. It isn't like they dated for months or something. Jack had a 5 minute conversation with him years before they crashed on the island. There is no possible way they would recall meeting each other after such a minor meeting.

The episode where this occurred showed us the flashback with Jack meeting Desmond for the first time, in which Desmond used the word "brother" in conversation. Back in the hatch, Desmond's face was hidden behind Locke when Jack first came across him, and was then dramatically revealed as he said some dialogue ending with the word "brother." Cut to look of shock on Jack's face as he says "You!" Cut to LOST.

So yes, Jack definitely remembered him.

MoviePage 05-18-09 10:18 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DthRdrX (Post 9448303)
I think they stated that everything on the show could be explained in the realm of scientific theory. I can't find the exact qoute.

Does that include immortals who can assume the likeness of dead people?

Palaver 05-18-09 10:54 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I don’t think anybody has mentioned this possibility yet, so I just throw this out there. Plus, if this is right, I want credit for predicting it.

I can’t help but think that Jacob and Ben may actually be working together in a long con of sorts. I can’t get past the fact that Ben really started acting out of character once he saw the resurrected Locke. I know we are supposed to attribute that to his shock of seeing Locke alive. But I think he was actually playing dumb.

Little things like his claiming to not know about the drug plane. I don’t believe for a minute that Ben didn’t already know about that plane. I think he knew all along that Locke wasn’t really Locke and he was just lying low to figure out what to do.

Of course all of this begs the question: Why did he seemingly kill Jacob? I don’t think we know enough (or anything) about this supposed loophole at this point, but his appearing to kill Jacob may have been part of a bigger plan to lull him into a false sense of security, while the grand plan is put into place (“They’re coming”).

Bottom line: Ben has been too much of a kick ass character to have been so easily bamboozled at this point. We have to assume that Jacob choose Ben as a leader (unlike Locke) and he did it for a reason. I definitely would want Ben on my side if a war was coming.

I know my evidence on this is flimsy, but I’m going with my gut on this one.

buzzdalf 05-18-09 12:42 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by johnnysd (Post 9448019)
FWIW, I think that the timeline has changed. I believe that when Desmond turned the fail safe key he detonated the bomb. Now though, the bomb has already been detonated and neutralized this pocket of energy

+1

I have been thinking the same thing about the fail safe key. I think that WAS the bomb.
Although, maybe it still IS the bomb and it was always put there by the losties. After they flash out at the end of the episode Dharma decides to use it as the fail safe. They were just setting up what really happened and didn't change anything.
hmm, I have to wonder.

RichC2 05-18-09 12:43 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
To think this time next year the topic will read Series Finale. Can't wait!

Palaver 05-18-09 01:03 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by buzzdalf (Post 9451234)
I have been thinking the same thing about the fail safe key. I think that WAS the bomb.
Although, maybe it still IS the bomb and it was always put there by the losties. After they flash out at the end of the episode Dharma decides to use it as the fail safe. They were just setting up what really happened and didn't change anything.
hmm, I have to wonder.

Or maybe the bomb going off did work in averting disaster and Dharma decided to procure another bomb as a failsafe for future disasters.

dsa_shea 05-18-09 01:23 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9450980)
I donít think anybody has mentioned this possibility yet, so I just throw this out there. Plus, if this is right, I want credit for predicting it.

I canít help but think that Jacob and Ben may actually be working together in a long con of sorts. I canít get past the fact that Ben really started acting out of character once he saw the resurrected Locke. I know we are supposed to attribute that to his shock of seeing Locke alive. But I think he was actually playing dumb.

Little things like his claiming to not know about the drug plane. I donít believe for a minute that Ben didnít already know about that plane. I think he knew all along that Locke wasnít really Locke and he was just lying low to figure out what to do.

Of course all of this begs the question: Why did he seemingly kill Jacob? I donít think we know enough (or anything) about this supposed loophole at this point, but his appearing to kill Jacob may have been part of a bigger plan to lull him into a false sense of security, while the grand plan is put into place (ďTheyíre comingĒ).

Bottom line: Ben has been too much of a kick ass character to have been so easily bamboozled at this point. We have to assume that Jacob choose Ben as a leader (unlike Locke) and he did it for a reason. I definitely would want Ben on my side if a war was coming.

I know my evidence on this is flimsy, but Iím going with my gut on this one.


They bamboozled the hell out of Locke and basically left him dead on the side of the road after he was there from the beginning. What makes you think that they didn't do it to Ben as well? Who thinks that Ben and Locke are actually brothers that have been duped all along?

Palaver 05-18-09 01:46 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9451386)
They bamboozled the hell out of Locke and basically left him dead on the side of the road after he was there from the beginning. What makes you think that they didn't do it to Ben as well? Who thinks that Ben and Locke are actually brothers that have been duped all along?

Mainly because Locke's character has always been easily manipulated his entire life. Especially by father-type figures. We've always been convinced from the onset that Locke is something special (and I kinda think he still may be), but Richard, himself, pointed out that he didn't see anything special about Locke.

Ben, on the other hand, has always been 3 moves ahead of everyone. He's the classic manipulator and strategist.

Plus he knows all kinds of crap about that island. Island needs moving? Sure there's donkey wheel behind this wall that'll do the trick. Need to fight the bad guys? Let me pull this drain to summon a smoke monster. Need Locke's daddy? Get the magic box. Need a drug plane? Umm. I got no idea what you're talking about.

I'm just not buying it.

Mr. Cinema 05-18-09 02:01 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9450980)
I donít think anybody has mentioned this possibility yet, so I just throw this out there. Plus, if this is right, I want credit for predicting it.

I canít help but think that Jacob and Ben may actually be working together in a long con of sorts. I canít get past the fact that Ben really started acting out of character once he saw the resurrected Locke. I know we are supposed to attribute that to his shock of seeing Locke alive. But I think he was actually playing dumb.

Little things like his claiming to not know about the drug plane. I donít believe for a minute that Ben didnít already know about that plane. I think he knew all along that Locke wasnít really Locke and he was just lying low to figure out what to do.

Of course all of this begs the question: Why did he seemingly kill Jacob? I donít think we know enough (or anything) about this supposed loophole at this point, but his appearing to kill Jacob may have been part of a bigger plan to lull him into a false sense of security, while the grand plan is put into place (ďTheyíre comingĒ).

Bottom line: Ben has been too much of a kick ass character to have been so easily bamboozled at this point. We have to assume that Jacob choose Ben as a leader (unlike Locke) and he did it for a reason. I definitely would want Ben on my side if a war was coming.

I know my evidence on this is flimsy, but Iím going with my gut on this one.

Ben is the king of lying. Everyone knows that. He always has the answers, but the last few episodes has made him weak and confused. I hope it's all an act.

MoviePage 05-18-09 02:45 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I was thinking earlier today about some things I would ask myself, or at least stop to consider, if I found myself in a situation where I went back in time with a group of friends and had the opportunity to possibly change the past by detonating an atomic weapon, which might in turn change the future from which I and my friends came. Especially if I were a "man of science" who had acted in a rational manner thus far in my life, with the defining character trait of always wanting to make things right.
  • Am I really going to change the future by doing this?
  • Or am I just making things happen the way they were meant to happen/had already happened?
  • Could I be impacting the future in a negative way rather than a positive one? What if my life is better/more meaningful now than it would have been if things had happened differently? What about my friends' lives? Should I consider what will happen to them if I "reset" the future, such as one of them possibly going to prison, one possibly dying from cancer, etc.? Would it perhaps be better to just leave things alone?
  • In short, why change the future? Was it that bad?
  • If I detonate this weapon, are there any immediate negative consequences? Will I experience physical death in this timeline? Will my friends die? Will other innocent people in the way die?
  • If I reset the future by doing this, will I remember everything that's happened? Or will my life continue as if none of this had ever happened, without my remembering any of it?
  • What happens to my current existence if I change the future in a way that negates its possibility? Will my current conscience jump forward into my future self? Or do I cease to exist as I know myself now? And will the same happen to my friends?
  • Even if my action does change things, am I creating an alternate reality rather than actually changing the future I knew?
  • If so, what are the implications of that?
  • WTF? I'm in 1977? Why am I worried about my relatively insignificant future? Get the President on the line now, I wish to speak with him about the future date of September 11, 2001. And some other stuff that happened in the meantime.
  • Also, get my stock broker on the line right after the President.
  • Ok, before the President.
  • What happens to this island, and the people on it, if I change the future? Will things be worse or better here?
  • In conclusion: Do I perhaps need more information before taking this action?

All of these are things that Jack (and the other characters) apparently didn't think about, question, or discuss with anyone else this season, because the plot needed to move, move, move!

cracksky 05-18-09 02:47 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9451306)
Or maybe the bomb going off did work in averting disaster and Dharma decided to procure another bomb as a failsafe for future disasters.

I agree with this.

In order for the failsafe to be a bomb then the bomb that the losties dropped had to have exploded with minimal damage above ground so that Dharma could continue on with the knowledge of how to contain the electromagnetism and how to ultimately destroy it. Fate Never Changes.

s}{ammer 05-18-09 02:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
http://www.cracked.com/blog/if-the-c...old-the-truth/

taa455 05-18-09 02:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
While watching the events at the Swan play out I kept thinking, why set off the nuke? Just shoot the Radzinsky guy so Dr. Chang can cut the drill off before it hits the energy pocket. Disaster averted!!

cracksky 05-18-09 03:11 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
What's hilarious is the Losties both cause the incident and will provide the information needed (from the future) to contain it before either dying or leaving the island.

Still not certain why Richard said he saw them all die though.

Draven 05-18-09 03:11 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Wow. Really? Another bomb on the island?

People have gone insane.

cracksky 05-18-09 03:17 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Is the rest of Jughead useless without its core or can it still be detonated in part?

pinata242 05-18-09 03:20 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by taa455 (Post 9451680)
While watching the events at the Swan play out I kept thinking, why set off the nuke? Just shoot the Radzinsky guy so Dr. Chang can cut the drill off before it hits the energy pocket. Disaster averted!!

Chang did shut it off, but it was too late.

dsa_shea 05-18-09 03:23 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Palaver (Post 9451450)
Mainly because Locke's character has always been easily manipulated his entire life. Especially by father-type figures. We've always been convinced from the onset that Locke is something special (and I kinda think he still may be), but Richard, himself, pointed out that he didn't see anything special about Locke.

Ben, on the other hand, has always been 3 moves ahead of everyone. He's the classic manipulator and strategist.

Plus he knows all kinds of crap about that island. Island needs moving? Sure there's donkey wheel behind this wall that'll do the trick. Need to fight the bad guys? Let me pull this drain to summon a smoke monster. Need Locke's daddy? Get the magic box. Need a drug plane? Umm. I got no idea what you're talking about.

I'm just not buying it.

Ben is the classic manipulator but obviously one that Jacob never really endorsed.

IDrinkMolson 05-18-09 03:37 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9450887)
Also, the blast door map was made by Kelvin who, I wouldn't think, have intimate knowledge of what's going on, but speculating based on what he has seen... correct?

June can't get here soon enough so I can re-watch the first two seasons. :lol:

When he showed Desmond how to fake a lock down, Kelvin said, Radzinsky started the blast door map.

When we found out Radzinsky was part of Dharma, I questioned why he would want to make a map. We can't really tell what part Radzinsky did, and what Kelvin did.

Palaver 05-18-09 04:06 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9451752)
Ben is the classic manipulator but obviously one that Jacob never really endorsed.

I think that Jacob did endorse him... at least at one point. Jacob seems to be the one calling the shots for the most part... probably through Richard.

Otherwise, who is the one who picked Ben as the leader in the first place? Seems to me that Richard gets his orders from Jacob. That's why Richard was never convinced about Locke being the leader. Jacob never endorsed him.

I do think that Ben strayed a bit from Jacob's plan and become a bit egotistical, but Jacob punished him for that with the tumor. Jacob sending Jack might have been part of the reconciliation between the two.


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