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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

JZ1276 05-16-09 06:50 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by yourlocalcinema (Post 9448392)
Anyone else notice that the flashback with Juliet is extremely modern? Considering this stands alone as the only flashback not involving Jacob, any chance it might be there to tell us something else, like a hint at an alternate timeline or something? Just a thought.

The point of Juliet's flashback was to show her parents getting divorced and to show how she loses faith in relationships which leads to the next scene of her telling Sawyer just bc they are in love doesnt mean they belong together.

JZ1276 05-16-09 06:55 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
did anyone else wonder why kate and sawyer didnt just grab the chain that juliet was caught on instead of trying to pull her up by her hands?

Jimmy James 05-16-09 07:01 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by JZ1276 (Post 9448567)
did anyone else wonder why kate and sawyer didnt just grab the chain that juliet was caught on instead of trying to pull her up by her hands?

They were actually smart enough to realize that if some gigantic magnetic force that was pulling in everything metal was the reason the chain was being pulled in, they didn't stand a chance of moving the chain?

yourlocalcinema 05-16-09 07:22 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by JZ1276 (Post 9448561)
The point of Juliet's flashback was to show her parents getting divorced and to show how she loses faith in relationships which leads to the next scene of her telling Sawyer just bc they are in love doesnt mean they belong together.

Was a thirty second flashback necessary just so she could repeat that line a minute or so later, though? That flashback seemed so out of place to me and is literally my only complaint about the finale, so I guess I'm just trying desperately to justify its inclusion. I just feel like it has to have been trimmed down or have some kind of deeper meaning, because it's completely unnecessary otherwise. I think her motivations would still have been pretty clear, or at least no more ambiguous than any of her other decisions.

Seantn 05-16-09 07:24 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by JZ1276 (Post 9448567)
did anyone else wonder why kate and sawyer didnt just grab the chain that juliet was caught on instead of trying to pull her up by her hands?

So you think that they would be strong enough to pull it out when the force that is pulling it in is strong enough to be breaking metal in half and to tip a car over?

JZ1276 05-16-09 07:53 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by yourlocalcinema (Post 9448597)
Was a thirty second flashback necessary just so she could repeat that line a minute or so later, though? That flashback seemed so out of place to me and is literally my only complaint about the finale, so I guess I'm just trying desperately to justify its inclusion. I just feel like it has to have been trimmed down or have some kind of deeper meaning, because it's completely unnecessary otherwise. I think her motivations would still have been pretty clear, or at least no more ambiguous than any of her other decisions.


the flashback just showed why she did what she did

JZ1276 05-16-09 07:55 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Seantn (Post 9448601)
So you think that they would be strong enough to pull it out when the force that is pulling it in is strong enough to be breaking metal in half and to tip a car over?

No. But they wouldnt have been able to pull her out either as long as the chain was tied around her. Just makes more sense. Easier to grip a chain than a hand.

Jimmy James 05-16-09 07:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by JZ1276 (Post 9448641)
No. But they wouldnt have been able to pull her out either as long as the chain was tied around her. Just makes more sense. Easier to grip a chain than a hand.

I don't think they were aware she was entangled. If they were, they might have gone with an even more desperate rescue attempt.

cracksky 05-16-09 08:15 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Seeing Richard building the Black Rock ship-in-a-bottle makes me think that he came to the island on that ship as Ricardos. Perhaps he was the last survivor in the battle maybe he was trying to keep the peace and Jacob gave him everlasting life as his reward. I guess he would still be there on the island somewhere with the brothers.

Michael Corvin 05-16-09 09:48 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
This isn't a slight on anyone in particular, but I am finding it quite humorous how so many people are posting so "matter-of-fact-ly" about what they think happened when the opening frames of season six could pretty much debunk every theory in this thread. :lol:

dsa_shea 05-16-09 09:52 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9448786)
This isn't a slight on anyone in particular, but I am finding it quite humorous how so many people are posting so "matter-of-fact-ly" about what they think happened when the opening frames of season six could pretty much debunk every theory in this thread. :lol:

We know that but what fun would it be to not at least speculate and have some confidence in what you believe. I imagine it would drive the writers crazy if they didn't see people posting on forums like this and webpages that talk about LOST. They seem like likeable guys but I can imagine their egos about the show are bigger than Ron Jeremy's penis. The odds are the writers are looking at what people are saying and trying to come up with a way that circumvents all (at least most) of the speculation just to prove everyone wrong for the season premiere.

s}{ammer 05-16-09 11:59 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
A few things I was thinking about:

Faraday's theory on the h-bomb was just that, a theory. Until this season he was saying the exact opposite. Therefore, he could have been wrong and nothing happened to the time line when they detonated the bomb. Or it may not have even gone off, I like the theory that the incident happened, and Dharma made the bomb as the failsafe that eventually get's used by the sexual predator. :)

I still can't see how anyone can call either of these characters good. One wants to kill the other, and uses people as pawns to do so. The other calls the people there to sacrifice lives in this game on purpose. I also find it funny how some of you have made comments about narrow minded and doing a disservice and so on, yet you hold on to a biblical story even though they overwhelmed us in this episode with Egyptian history. If anything, I believe some people are trying way too hard to fit this story into a Christian theme.

If the smoke monster is Jacob's enemy, how did Ben summon him to aid them when Keemey, or whatever his name was, attacked?

I don't believe the real Locke will be back as I think he found out the hard way, "What about you?" applies to all the people involved. He was, in the end, just another person in the game.

Charles, has he ever truly been the leader of the others? Richard has specifically stated that Eloise was their leader several times, but I seem to remember him only saying that Charles was "difficult" or something like that. Perhaps Charles was in a relationship with Eloise and so he was "Leader B" by default, but actually working for the enemy of Jacob.

Edit: Forgot one thing.
When Jacob said "they are coming" at the end, couldn't he have just meant Richard and the rest of the people outside were coming? It was at this point that faux locke kicked him in the fire and looked around.

cracksky 05-17-09 12:46 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9448901)
If the smoke monster is Jacob's enemy, how did Ben summon him to aid them when Keemey, or whatever his name was, attacked?

We already saw Ben summon the monster so Jacob's brother must've felt the need to keep him in charge at the time.


Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9448901)
When Jacob said "they are coming" at the end, couldn't he have just meant Richard and the rest of the people outside were coming? It was at this point that faux locke kicked him in the fire and looked around.

More likely it's the war Widmore spoke of. Why would Jacob warn him of an immediate danger outside while dying?

Son of Odin 05-17-09 01:15 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
i think the smoke monster isn't jacob or his brother. when ben told fake locke about seeing his daughter and her threatening him, fake john was surprised by it. i think jacob is still in control of the situation, he knew ben was going to kill him.

Draven 05-17-09 01:21 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I've been reading these crazy theories that everyone is throwing out there for years now. Can I ask a question: has the actual answer EVER been as complicated as the stuff you are all making up?

I can't think of a single thing that has been revealed on the show that was as involved as half of the things in this thread.

Like the "Penny is dead!" stuff from a few weeks ago. We saw exactly what happened - Ben went there, shot Desmond, went after Penny, Desmond beat him up and threw him in the water. People went on and on about the idea that Ben somehow went back to kill her, which even went as far as lessons on the geography of California. And it ended up being exactly what it looked like.

Or let's go all the way back to the polar bear. I remember people saying that Walt created the polar bear with his mutant powers because there was one in his comic book. It ended up being that there was a zoo on the island and it escaped. Which is about as mundane an explanation as possible for a polar bear on a tropical island.

I just don't know why people waste so much time thinking about this show 10x harder than the writers do.

Jimmy James 05-17-09 01:30 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
A zoo on the island? :lol:

I think the polar bear part is still at least partly unanswered. They had two cages, and we assume one was for a polar bear. Why?

Draven 05-17-09 01:34 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Jimmy James (Post 9448998)
A zoo on the island? :lol:

I think the polar bear part is still at least partly unanswered. They had two cages, and we assume one was for a polar bear. Why?

Fine, cages on the island with animals. I'm just saying that the answer wasn't "Walt has super powers"...it was "it escaped from a cage." And I'll be shocked if they ever answer "why" on the polar bear.

I'd say start with the simpler explanation for pretty much everything on the show.

cracksky 05-17-09 01:35 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
This place is all about theories. What don't you understand about that?

Draven 05-17-09 01:39 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9449003)
This place is all about theories. What don't you understand about that?

Because hardly any of them ever come even close to being accurate. Why waste the time speculating SO off base that it has no hope of coming true?

I'm fine with general "ooh that was interesting, I wonder what it means" but again I point out the "Penny is dead!" people. Was there a bigger waste of time then that discussion? It was exactly what they showed us. And for that matter, there are much bigger questions to waste time on. Such as, oh I don't know...the fact that no one has thought to get a straight answer from Richard on HOW HE IS IMMORTAL.

The show is complicated enough as it is. I don't know why people want it to be even harder to follow.

cracksky 05-17-09 01:54 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9449010)
Because hardly any of them ever come even close to being accurate. Why waste the time speculating SO off base that it has no hope of coming true?

I'm fine with general "ooh that was interesting, I wonder what it means" but again I point out the "Penny is dead!" people. Was there a bigger waste of time then that discussion? It was exactly what they showed us. And for that matter, there are much bigger questions to waste time on. Such as, oh I don't know...the fact that no one has thought to get a straight answer from Richard on HOW HE IS IMMORTAL.

The show is complicated enough as it is. I don't know why people want it to be even harder to follow.

It's no fun to come up with a theory for something if you already have a high percentage of it coming true. Where's the challenge?

BTW, you're speaking to the author of Penny is Dead so careful what you re-start here!

The Ankh that the creature is holding in both hands in the statue is the symbol of everlasting life and Richard said Jacob is responsible for the way he is.

I find that reading through these threads makes it easier for me to follow the show sometimes because there are often things I miss that are brought up here. I don't confuse fictional theories with the existing show.

calhoun07 05-17-09 02:21 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9448674)
Seeing Richard building the Black Rock ship-in-a-bottle makes me think that he came to the island on that ship as Ricardos. Perhaps he was the last survivor in the battle maybe he was trying to keep the peace and Jacob gave him everlasting life as his reward. I guess he would still be there on the island somewhere with the brothers.

I don't recall exactly where I read it, but Richard was on the manifest for the Black Rock ship. I think this was revealed in the Lost video game.

DJariya 05-17-09 03:45 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Loved the finale. Very entertaining 2 hours.

I don't feel like sorting through 500+ posts, so I wanted to know what the generous consensus thought the "Other" Locke was?

2010 can't come soon enough.

Michael Corvin 05-17-09 07:33 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Jimmy James (Post 9448998)
I think the polar bear part is still at least partly unanswered. They had two cages, and we assume one was for a polar bear. Why?



Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9449002)
And I'll be shocked if they ever answer "why" on the polar bear.

:hscratch: I thought polar bears were used to turn the frozen donkey wheel? They showed that to move the island a giant wheel needs to be turned, that is frequently frozen tight. They showed that turning it involves the person leaving the island and ending up in the Tunisian desert. The showed the skeletal remains of a polar bear with a Dharma collar being discovered by Charlotte in a desert.

Short of Ben saying what exactly they are for, I thought this is one of the mysteries that has a definite answer.

What I don't get is why the FDW room was sealed off.

Gunde 05-17-09 09:14 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9448214)
It doesn't look like her "V" is going to be picked up, so hopefully she returns. The way they killed her off was ridiculous, as was her relationship with Sawyer. Two seasons of her being in love with Jack, then he comes back to the island and they ignore each other. It kinda made me LOL.

Happens all the time in real life dude.

Draven 05-17-09 10:18 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
There you go Corvin...a "logical" answer on the why of the polar bears. Let's see how people make it more complicated.


Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9449026)
The Ankh that the creature is holding in both hands in the statue is the symbol of everlasting life and Richard said Jacob is responsible for the way he is.

Um...that is not an answer. There needs to be a follow-up question or two. If you were Ben or Locke and knew that Richard didn't age...wouldn't you ask him a LOT of questions about it? I'm tired of the cryptic "I've been here a long time" bullshit. How long, why and how is it possible are the next questions. And that's just one example of these arguably intelligent and "real world" people just accepting the weirdest shit in the world without a second thought.

It was ok at first when none of the castaways knew anything that was going on because they were all in the same situation. Now that all of these other characters that DO know what's going on have been introduced, it's time to start asking for straightforward answers.

Shannon Nutt 05-17-09 10:25 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9448282)
Big lie? Did they indicate early on that they were going to explain everything on this show with real world science?

Actually, early on, they beat us over the head with "LOST is NOT a science fiction show." So we have to take anything they tell us with a grain of salt...it's painfully obvious that a lot of the stuff we've seen was not part of a master plan, but rather created as they went from one season to the next.

Personally, I think LOST "jumped" the proverbial shark a long, long time ago. The difference between this show and others that have done the same is that LOST has managed to remain entertaining despite the fact that much of its logic has gone off the deep end.

gerrythedon 05-17-09 10:39 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
They need to do 24 episodes for the last season, fuck this 16 episode crap.

calhoun07 05-17-09 11:19 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DJariya (Post 9449089)
Loved the finale. Very entertaining 2 hours.

I don't feel like sorting through 500+ posts, so I wanted to know what the generous consensus thought the "Other" Locke was?

2010 can't come soon enough.

The consensus is "other locke" is the smoke monster appearing as him, since he's still dead. A clue was when Alex visited Ben...Locke was gone for about the same amount of time Alex appeared. Smokie apparently can only transform into one dead person at a time.

Which leads to a question I've pondered for a long time now: how did Walt appear to Locke? I can't recall...did we ever see Smokie appear as a person alive before?

calhoun07 05-17-09 11:21 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9449168)
:hscratch: I thought polar bears were used to turn the frozen donkey wheel? They showed that to move the island a giant wheel needs to be turned, that is frequently frozen tight. They showed that turning it involves the person leaving the island and ending up in the Tunisian desert. The showed the skeletal remains of a polar bear with a Dharma collar being discovered by Charlotte in a desert.

Dude, you nailed it. I never saw the connection before. I don't think they need an episode explaining this...it's fairly evident.

calhoun07 05-17-09 11:23 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Gunde (Post 9449215)
Happens all the time in real life dude.

Not to mention we are talking about three years here. Juliet could realistically be over with Jack after three years. It's not that unusual.

s}{ammer 05-17-09 11:23 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9449026)

The Ankh that the creature is holding in both hands in the statue is the symbol of everlasting life and Richard said Jacob is responsible for the way he is.
.

You accept this part and yet you say Jacob's brother. Jacob was not God and couldn't grant eternal life to richard. Jacob is a god himself, as is his enemy. Why do so many people keep overlooking the glaring differences in the biblical Jacob story?

Disneyboy 05-17-09 11:46 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 9449333)
The consensus is "other locke" is the smoke monster appearing as him, since he's still dead. A clue was when Alex visited Ben...Locke was gone for about the same amount of time Alex appeared. Smokie apparently can only transform into one dead person at a time.

Which leads to a question I've pondered for a long time now: how did Walt appear to Locke? I can't recall...did we ever see Smokie appear as a person alive before?

I believe the producers said that when Shannon saw Walt in Season 2, that it was the smoke monster. And if Locke is the smoke monster, it would explain why it didnt come when Ben summoned it, it was already there.

cracksky 05-17-09 12:39 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9449254)
Um...that is not an answer. There needs to be a follow-up question or two. If you were Ben or Locke and knew that Richard didn't age...wouldn't you ask him a LOT of questions about it? I'm tired of the cryptic "I've been here a long time" bullshit. How long, why and how is it possible are the next questions. And that's just one example of these arguably intelligent and "real world" people just accepting the weirdest shit in the world without a second thought.

It was ok at first when none of the castaways knew anything that was going on because they were all in the same situation. Now that all of these other characters that DO know what's going on have been introduced, it's time to start asking for straightforward answers.

TV is full of characters that don't ask the questions that the viewer wants you to ask. It's called drama. If all the questions were asked and answered then the show would have been over in a handful of episodes in the first season. Obviously, it's working because we all are still watching the show. If it got too ridiculous we would've bailed and the show would be gone.

Draven 05-17-09 01:38 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by cracksky (Post 9449444)
TV is full of characters that don't ask the questions that the viewer wants you to ask. It's called drama. If all the questions were asked and answered then the show would have been over in a handful of episodes in the first season. Obviously, it's working because we all are still watching the show. If it got too ridiculous we would've bailed and the show would be gone.

I'd argue that LOST is the worst of the bunch. On pretty much every other genre show, somebody asks questions when presented with things that make no sense. On LOST, nobody does.

Again, it was fine when there was no one to ask...the 815 survivors were as "lost" as the rest of us. But now that they have encountered an entire cast of characters that DO know what is going on...the fact that none of 815 seem even remotely curious is just flat out dumb. And I'd say the same thing about any other show that does it.

Even a show as stupid as Smallville (which I've also watched since episode 1) explains the super powers with the whole "meteor rock" thing. Yes, it's ridiculous but it's consistent within that universe. I hold LOST to a higher standard because it's supposed to take place in the real world with real people, yet they are more accepting of superpowers, resurrection and immortality than the characters from Smallville. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

Michael Corvin 05-17-09 03:49 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Disneyboy (Post 9449367)
I believe the producers said that when Shannon saw Walt in Season 2, that it was the smoke monster. And if Locke is the smoke monster, it would explain why it didnt come when Ben summoned it, it was already there.

Actually this is one of the things team Darlton seem to held steadfast on. They have been very consistent in saying that the Smoke monster is not nano-tech and cannot take the shape of people.

Granted they could be lying, but I'll take them at their word. That's another reason why this thread has been so entertaining. Everyone is taking the slightest sliver of info and jumping off the deep end with it. Everyone sees two Locke's and automatically jumps to the conclusion that Smokie is taking the shape of Locke, Christian, Alex, etc. I'm not buying.

Did Smokie take the shape of the doctor from the freighter? He was in two places at the same time. How about Kate? Sawyer saw her helping Claire give birth while she was actually off the island.

dsa_shea 05-17-09 03:53 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Maybe the smoke monster isn't either of the two but rather the rule enforcer of the game. He lives under the "temple" which is very similar in style and decoration to where Jacob lives. It is possible that the other character lives elsewhere that we haven't seen just yet. We know that at least one of the two particpants, no name guy, can take the physical form of people that have been in contact with the island and maybe Jacob can as well but feels there is no need to be deceitful.

DthRdrX 05-17-09 04:45 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 9449010)
Such as, oh I don't know...the fact that no one has thought to get a straight answer from Richard on HOW HE IS IMMORTAL.

The show is complicated enough as it is. I don't know why people want it to be even harder to follow.

Interesting statements. Richard just stated in the finale that he's the way he is because of Jacob. We really don't have to complicate it further than that.

DthRdrX 05-17-09 04:49 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9449689)
Did Smokie take the shape of the doctor from the freighter? He was in two places at the same time. How about Kate? Sawyer saw her helping Claire give birth while she was actually off the island.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not Michael? Anyway:

1.) The doctor's body washed up on the island before we saw him die, due to the time discrepancy coming and going from the island.

2.) Sawyer saw Kate and Claire giving birth in 2004, while he was time traveling.

DthRdrX 05-17-09 04:56 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Disneyboy (Post 9449367)
I believe the producers said that when Shannon saw Walt in Season 2, that it was the smoke monster. And if Locke is the smoke monster, it would explain why it didnt come when Ben summoned it, it was already there.

Yea, they stated that we saw the smoke monster is season 2, but didn't realize it at the time.

I've watched it twice now so I'm going to post my full thoughts on the episode later tonight or tommorow.

Draven 05-17-09 05:48 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by DthRdrX (Post 9449773)
Interesting statements. Richard just stated in the finale that he's the way he is because of Jacob. We really don't have to complicate it further than that.

Sorry. Someone needs to ask a few more questions about that.


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