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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

spainlinx0 05-14-09 12:06 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I find myself having a hard time believing that Jack is on the side of the "good guys" when his motivation for detonating the bomb is so unfuckingbelievably selfish.

spainlinx0 05-14-09 12:12 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
However the people on the good guys side seem to have love (and lost love) as their motivation. Jin, Sun, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and Hurley. They all seem to have connections with people. Hurley has it with his family and with his dead friends.

Locke turned away from love. He did it with Helen. He was obsessed with his own destiny. Ben, the same way. They even hammered that point home when he killed Jacob. What about me? He has always been about himself, sacrificing his own daughter, because he felt he was too important to be captured.

In that way, I guess I can see how the sides begin to line up.

Joe Schmoe 05-14-09 12:31 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Didn't like how some of the characters changed their minds so easily (Kate, Juliet, Sawyer), nor did I like their selfish motivations (Jack, Juliet).

Are we meant to think Juliet set off the bomb when she banged it, or was the flash at the end the energy being released?

How did the 1954 Others move the 20-ton bomb from above ground to the tunnel?

Why did 1977 Sawyer tell Jack that if he and Juiet went back to the real world on the sub he could stop his parents from being killed when a few seconds earlier he said they were killed in 1976? Wouldn't they have returned to the real world in 1977? They'd still be dead.

If the bomb went off at the end, then the Others and Dahrma folk living on the island in 1977 are dead for good, right? So Eloise and Charles have no future beyond 1977, right?

In a recent episode, it was stated that another sub wouldn't come to the island for months, which is why Kate and Sawyer ended up taking young Ben to the Others to save him when he was shot by Sayid. But a day or two later, Daniel arrived in a sub. What gives?

Yes, I'm pretty sure I saw Jacob touch Hugo in the cab right before he got out.

Was that Penny I saw in the preview for "Flashforward"? I hope that doesn't mean she and Desmond are off the show now.

Heat 05-14-09 12:32 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Why wasn't the drilling hole filled up with rubble? Where were the cuttings from the hole? And if they were that worried about the temperature of the bit, why not be pumping a mud down there to keep fluids in constant contact with the bit, thus keeping the bit cool?

edit to remove Juliet / Kate connection that didn't really exist

Joe Schmoe 05-14-09 12:38 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Heat (Post 9442996)
Why wasn't the drilling hole filled up with rubble? Where were the cuttings from the hole? And if they were that worried about the temperature of the bit, why not be pumping a mud down there to keep fluids in constant contact with the bit, thus keeping the bit cool?

And Juliet and Kate were sisters but don't remember each other?

Where did you get that? I think the sister in the flashback with Juliet is the same sister who gets sick (and pregnant) as an adult.

Heat 05-14-09 12:50 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Whoops. He called her Lillian, didn't he? Nevermind.

s}{ammer 05-14-09 01:01 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe (Post 9443000)
Where did you get that? I think the sister in the flashback with Juliet is the same sister who gets sick (and pregnant) as an adult.

That's what I got too. I think many folks here are getting the history mixed up in a way to try and figure out how tonight fits in.

Since this anomaly is sucking all the metalic objects in, and presumably getting stronger at this sucking the longer it leaks it's energy, could the blast from the bomb simply end up enhancing the effect since the bomb is really just a release of energy?

The story of jacob and his enemy would probably make more sense to you guys if you stop thinking in a monotheistic viewpoint. It should be obvious from this episode that jacob and his enemy are simply two Egyptian Gods. Perhaps they are stuck on the island since that is the only place left where people follow them anymore. So the other guy isn't evil, think about how many people jacob has sacrificed, they are just two rival Gods. My guess is this is Horus and Seth (isn't that his main rival god, been awhile since I read up on this stuff) and it feels right to label the other guy evil since christianity is largely based on Horus. However, you must not look at good versus evil here, simply as two gods fighting for all eternity.

Decker 05-14-09 01:10 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe (Post 9442994)
Why did 1977 Sawyer tell Jack that if he and Juiet went back to the real world on the sub he could stop his parents from being killed when a few seconds earlier he said they were killed in 1976? Wouldn't they have returned to the real world in 1977? They'd still be dead.

His point was that he'd been there since 1974. He could have stopped it, he chose not to. Whatever happened, happened.

Goldberg74 05-14-09 01:11 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Heat (Post 9443005)
Whoops. He called her Lillian, didn't he? Nevermind.

Juliet's sister is named Rachel.

spainlinx0 05-14-09 01:12 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe (Post 9442994)
Didn't like how some of the characters changed their minds so easily (Kate, Juliet, Sawyer), nor did I like their selfish motivations (Jack, Juliet).

Are we meant to think Juliet set off the bomb when she banged it, or was the flash at the end the energy being released?

How did the 1954 Others move the 20-ton bomb from above ground to the tunnel?

Why did 1977 Sawyer tell Jack that if he and Juiet went back to the real world on the sub he could stop his parents from being killed when a few seconds earlier he said they were killed in 1976? Wouldn't they have returned to the real world in 1977? They'd still be dead.

If the bomb went off at the end, then the Others and Dahrma folk living on the island in 1977 are dead for good, right? So Eloise and Charles have no future beyond 1977, right?

In a recent episode, it was stated that another sub wouldn't come to the island for months, which is why Kate and Sawyer ended up taking young Ben to the Others to save him when he was shot by Sayid. But a day or two later, Daniel arrived in a sub. What gives?

Yes, I'm pretty sure I saw Jacob touch Hugo in the cab right before he got out.

Was that Penny I saw in the preview for "Flashforward"? I hope that doesn't mean she and Desmond are off the show now.

He said that one year ago, he had the opportunity to stop his dad from killing his mom, and therefore fix how his life turned out. He chose not to, because what's done is done. That was his argument as to why Jack shouldn't try to change things now. He's not saying he CAN do it, he said he could have, and chose not to.

riley_dude 05-14-09 01:14 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I thought this was pretty weak for a season ender and to kill Juliet makes it even more of a bummer.

Boba Fett 05-14-09 01:16 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Just wait, next year Jacob's death will be avenged by his buddy the carpet pisser.

DRG 05-14-09 01:36 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Something I was just thinking about... was Juliet's flashback the only one that didn't feature Jacob? And does that have any significance given the ending?

GenPion 05-14-09 01:45 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I thought this episode confirmed that the upcoming "war" is between Good and Evil? Jacob vs. the other man (evil, his enemy) -- who found a loophole into taking on John Locke's physical image. And all these players, our main characters, play a role in this battle of good versus evil. Jacob was visiting them to see who should be on his side of the war to make sure they would come to the island. When he dies he says "They're coming". He's referring to these Characters, I believe. All of whom (if I am not mistaken) are the ones stuck in the 70's. I loved the fact that Jacob was dressed all in white at the beginning and the other guy was all in black. It continues the "two sides" theme. And, yes, it made me think of Locke and his game with Walt and that famous line. And when Ben, the famous manipulator gets manipulated into killing Jacob (but is presented with the notion beforehand, and by Jacob, that he always has a choice - and I definitely think he made the wrong one).

Does anyone remember how Jack was not supposedly on Jacob's list? And yet, Jacob went to visit him. I seem to recall him saying something that sounded like a hint of some sort but now I've forgotten.... any help there?

I loved this episode. The Locke reveal shocked me to my core emotionally, but I definitely saw it coming. I said as such at the end of "Follow the Leader" -- I knew that whatever was going on, it wasn't Locke. The real Locke would never have gone on a mission to "Kill Jacob".

The Incident stuff was awesome. Frankly, the only thing that confused me was the fact that in the video doesn't Pierre Chang say that a computer must not be used for contact with the outside world or else another incident would occur? If so, I don't see how that's at play on the show at all. Hmmm....

I cried when Juliet died (well, almost died) and when Locke was revealed to be in the box - in fact, I bawled then. I'm not afraid to admit that. In fact, my entire family was watching and all of us were crying at the Locke reveal. But it was genius, so long as we get more behind this "loophole" and what's going on (which I'm sure we will).

I loved the fact that Sun found Charlie's Ring. My whole body got chills when that happened and it was easily one of the best moments of an extremely packed finale. I loved seeing Rose and Bernard again too, along with Vincent. Very touching moment.

Richard seems to me like he came from the Black Rock. And it was interesting how they revealed that "Jacob made me this way" in terms of his lack of aging... had he come from the black rock, died, and was resurrected by Jacob? That seems a plausible theory to me.

Awesome, awesome episode. So much going on. Exceptional direction by Jack Bender. 2010 couldn't get here soon enough!

Son of Odin 05-14-09 01:47 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 9442968)
I find myself having a hard time believing that Jack is on the side of the "good guys" when his motivation for detonating the bomb is so unfuckingbelievably selfish.

no. jack was trying to save all the lives on the oceanic flight which were hundreds of people. risking a few to save hundreds. as captain pike told kirk, you try to do better. the only selfish one was kate, she would risk all those lives just to stay out of handcuffs. sayid, jinn, faraday, juliet, miles, and hurley all backed jack. as for this finale, second best lost finale. through the looking glass to cap season 3 was the best finale. I thought for a minute after jack dropped the bomb, i was like...oh no! the massive magnetism pull started and i was thinking that's what started it all in the first place. the button pushing every 90 minutes. remember all the metal objects getting pulled when desmond almost didn't push the button. i thought jack was the reason the incident happened. but then juliet seen that the bomb didn't detonate. so when she did detonate it.....maybe jack did it after all. what an episode. i still think locke is special in some way. they can't let locke go out like that.

Kal-El 05-14-09 01:47 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
After an incredibly enjoyable season, and 2 prior nights of mindblowing season finales from House and Fringe, this was...a letdown. Still tuning in for the final season of course. But in comparison for everything leading up to this, I'm left disappointed.

tlwizard 05-14-09 01:51 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Or could Jacob be Jacob and the other guy his brother Esau?

Could the island be Jacob's ladder? Each iteration and repeat and advancement of the island's story is one step closer to heaven?

Right, isn't the ladder supposed to bridge heaven and earth, just like how the Egyptian statue represents the passage from earth to afterlife?

mnementh 05-14-09 02:02 AM


Originally Posted by DRG (Post 9443031)
Something I was just thinking about... was Juliet's flashback the only one that didn't feature Jacob? And does that have any significance given the ending?

Huh? Juliet's flashback explained her feelings about Sawyer.

aintnosin 05-14-09 02:03 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by MoviePage (Post 9442706)
Worst season of Lost ever. Yeah, I said it.

Yup, you did. Your "Dewey Defeats Truman" moment.

Hammer99 05-14-09 02:46 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Ranger (Post 9442862)
I agree that Faux Locke is the smoke monster - like Yemi, Christian, and Alex. And probably more people.

Ilena says look at these ashes so I think they mean that is the smoke monster (evil) and thus set the cabin on fire.

Definitely will take time to absorb.

I think Faux Locke = Charles Widmore.

mnementh 05-14-09 02:56 AM


Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara (Post 9442748)
Speaking of which, if Jacob is from the Black Rock era (or earlier), why does he have an American accent?

Why not? He had a perfect Korean accent in one of the scenes.

Rocketdog2000 05-14-09 03:01 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Ten pages in of folks trying to theorize this and that, and not a single mention about how the closing credits are now reversed in color? (Black letters LOST against a white backdrop, instead of the usual white letters against a black backdrop). Am I seriously the only one who noticed that switch-up? That's gotta mean something for the future season/EP's, too. It'll be interesting to see if it carries over to next year's credits.

GenPion 05-14-09 03:03 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Rocketdog2000 (Post 9443072)
Ten pages in of folks trying to theorize this and that, and not a single mention about how the closing credits are now reversed in color? (Black letters LOST against a white backdrop, instead of the usual white letters against a black backdrop). Am I seriously the only one who noticed that switch-up? That's gotta mean something for the future season/EP's, too. It'll be interesting to see if it carries over to next year's credits.

I doubt it will carry over but I did notice it. Definitely a hint as to what happened and what we may see next year. I'm guessing Lost: Season One and perhaps beyond played out differently and with the information we know now.

parker63 05-14-09 03:49 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I couldn't help but think of the parallels in this episode. Jacob vs. his nemesis, whatever his name is. They couldn't kill each other personally. Isn't that the same scenario between Ben and Widmore? For whatever reason, they can't directly kill each other either. I think I remember that from last season when Ben appeared in Widmore's bedroom and threatened to kill Penny instead.

BTW I loved this entire season, and I'm really looking forward to January.

Sir Talos 05-14-09 03:55 AM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
New Locke is Smokey. Smokey as Christian told him to leave, New Locke told Old Locke through Alpert that he had to die. Locke's corpse needed to be on the island before he could take that form and gain trust of the others and to bring Ben to Jacob. Smokey as Alex told Ben to do anything Locke told him. Conveniently Locke convinced him to be judged so this message could be conveyed in a frightening/convincing way. Smokey needed Ben to kill Jacob of his own free will. The rule was that Jacob and Smokey could not kill each other or make someone else do it, somehow another person had to do it of their own free will. Smokey took advantage of Ben's sense of rejection and coerced him into stabbing Jacob, pretty much guiding him the entire way, but stopping short of forcing it. Jacob may have seen this coming and I have a feeling that he is behind all the goings on in 1977 including the new arrivals of Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid who had been raptured off the plane unlike the rest of the passengers. We don't know if the timeline is altered or not but if it is then Jacob and Locke may not be dead and we may eventually see Smokey getting some payback somehow. One question left open is whether Widmore's actions have been helping either side and why Ilena and crew consider themselves to be working against Widmore.


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