Cardiff Giant11

I deleted it from my DVR so I can't double check but I'm pretty sure Racetrack said something right before she hit the button; I don't remember her being dead (maybe about to die). The BSG wiki and a few posters her say she was dead and debris hit the ship. Can someone jog my memory?

Also, interesting idea about Baltar being an "angel" the whole time. I always thought it didn't make much sense that he was able to survive. Not sure if that was the case or not but definitely a possibility.

Draven

She wasn't dead. She clearly raised her head up, said something, and fired off the missles before she died.

I can't remember what she said but it wasn't unclear to me at all.

DVD Josh

Racetrack was dead.

Timber

Yup, dead after she "armed" the nukes.

TGM

She armed the nukes when she was alive, got killed, got bumped, and shot the nukes accidentally when dead. She had a frakkin' hole in her helmet AND a hole in the cockpit. It's rather obvious she was dead.

Timber

Exactly, didn't think I had to go into THAT much detail but that's what I meant.

Superman07

Odd, when the rock hit the ship I didn't think everybody in it died.

Anyway, somebody at the office today suggested that Baltar died back on Caprica and the entire time we have seen him he has been an Angel. While interesting, I don't think I buy that. For one, I doubt the writers were thinking that far headed when they started this (not that they needed to I suppose). Also, I think it would bug me. If "God" has this grand plan, why does he need dead people (possibly Baltar, and Kara) to execute it? Couldn't he just ensure that either they live or somebody else finish and/or fulfills the role? Really makes you wonder though if Baltar was dead the entire time. Why only Kara and possibly him then as angels that people could interact with when all the others were in the form of visions or hallucinations?

Timber

Why would an Angel need another guiding Angel? I know Starbuck needed her father but why would Baltar need Head 6 and Head Baltar to lead him.

golden_rod

Baltar never died, and Baltar and Six aren't angels. The Head Characters only look like Baltar and Six. In "Maelstrom," Kara was being guided by an "angel" in the form of Leoben. When she questions him, he tells her that he isn't Leoben, he simply looks like him. In an earlier season four episode, Baltar gives a speech over the wireless about angels and how they appear to us in the form of someone close to us. Some of the Final Five saw angels before the destruction of Earth, according to "No Exit." The Head Characters are angels, but they only take the form of someone who is close and/or recognizable to the individual seeing them; it is not who they actually are.

And the way I interpreted the ending of the show, with Baltar saying "It doesn't like being called that," is that nature itself is the "God" of the show, but that it didn't necessarily have a "plan." Nature is the "divine" presence and Six says (paraphrasing) "It's all mathematical; repeat something enough times and it's bound to change," i.e. evolve. Evolution. The cylons eventually evolve into hybrids because of Hera, the implication being that modern-day humans have both cylon and human DNA. The cycle of humans vs. cylons may have repeated over and over throughout time, but it changed with Hera.

dino88

Neither one of them knew their destiny and were guided towards it by different visions. Kara had no idea what she was (dead, alive, cylon, etc.) and had no reason to think anything was different until she saw her body. Assuming my theory were true, Baltar never found his body so would never have any reason to think he was different (other than the visions). I specifically didn't use the term angel because that's not how I see Kara (or in this case Baltar). Kara died and was resurrected without any knowledge of the fact. She wouldn't leave the living until this destiny was complete. They were not the one's doing the guiding, but actually quite resistant towards it most of the time. If there was anything that could be called "angels" it would be their visions who used them as instruments towards the overall "plan".


As for the question of Racetrack being dead or alive. 100% deado...I assume she died of asphyxiation. Huge hole in the raptor's windshield, cracks and a hole in her helmet, pale skin, blue lips. And no, she didn't say anything.

al_bundy

cain shot one for refusing to obey an order, and another one was killed by organized crime because he got involved as well.

Thos19

So what was with the hybrid saying this about Kara in "Razor":

"Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her."

Just a line of crap to fool the humans?

Thos

Timber

That still puzzles me too. I'd have to think it was referring to the original Kara Thrace. She did lead them to the (post) apocalypse.

Superman07

Well conceivably:

End = Earth 2
Apocalypes/Harbinger of Death = Nukes on Colony Ship and true seperation of Cylons

So from a Cylon perspective, the hybrid was very true to how events unfolded.

al_bundy

technically the human race is no more since they bred with cylons and the native homonid species. she's the harbringer of death since it's because of her the cylons lost the resurrection technology

DVD Josh

Are you just going to ignore the full statement of the hybrid? Because your explanation makes no sense in its full context.

al_bundy

end does not mean extinction. end can also mean the end of a journey, which in this case is what happened. they found a new home and made peace with the remaining cylons

DVD Josh

You are again ignoring the complete sentence. When read as a whole, it is obvious that the hybrid is speaking of the extinction of the human race.

The interesting thing to me however is that the hybrid's statement is another example of the conversation between the angels Baltar and Six at the end of the episode. The cycle does not necessarily have to repeat itself, and the fact that Kara led the humans to their salvation, rather than their extinction, is an example of the cycle being broken.

Superman07

Reference my post at 214. I do not believe, in this case, that end is the same as extinction.

Heat

Racetrack: Let's go weapons hot Stahls, we're getting close.
Stahls: You sure about that?
Racetrack: No, but I don't want to come out of this crap with no weapons either.

-- Stahls arms the weapons, computer reads "Master Arm Armed" --

Stahls: Nukes are hot. You know, this reminds me of that time back there in Langrethfall...
(ship is hit)

It's not clear that everybody is dead - they are wearing space suits afterall, but in the scene where Racetrack shoots the weapons - as I rewatched it, yeah, she is dead. The arm is just knocked into the master arm button which is armed.

DVD Josh

I do not agree. The statement is as plain as day. You guys are making it into separate statements, which it is not.

chanster

Actually the Hybrid's statments make sense. If Hera is the Mitchondrial Eve, all of the pure Colonial "humans" and Cylons bloodlines eventually died out. So the Hybrid's statements are true, Starbuck led everyone to their destruction.

Baron Of Hell

Kara Thrace rode in on a pale rapture. No one knew what she was or wince she came but where ever she went hell followed.

DJariya

Just finished watching this tonight (1 week late) and I loved it. Thought it was some of the best Sci-Fi/Drama and Action on TV that I have seen recently. Michael Rymer did an amazing job directing an intense action packed 1st hour and then focusing more on drama and the human element in hour 2.

I'm now really looking forward to hearing Ron Moore's commentary when the DVD of 4.5 gets released later this year.

Actually, just noticed that Moore has a Podcast for Day Break Parts 1-3. Has anyone listened to it yet? Does he shed any light on the whole Kara is an Angel thing?

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/down...ast.php?seas=4

I don't know about all of you, but I'm actually looking forward to the Caprica pilot on DVD next month and the series next year.

Question about Battlestar Galactica: The Plan. Does that take place between season 1 and 2? I know Razor, the previous stand alone movie, took place between 2 and 3, even though it was considered episode 1 and 2 of this season.

Superman07

He said the same thing all of these "interviews" have quoted him as saying - he didn't feel anything they gave (as an answer) would do her story justice. To me that clearly comes across as a cop-out.