Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

So here's the theory my wife and I concocted. Does it work? Maybe. Does it explain everything? No. Are there holes in it? Yes. But let's move ahead.

What if...

The island is whatever it is...let's say, though, it's a bad thing. For whatever reason, it's damaged or contained to the point where the people on it (Richard and the rest, who we'll call the Hostiles) can't get off. No one gets on, no one gets off. It's safely tucked away from the rest of the world, and can't affect our world. Let's assume this is a good thing, and that the island is "The Bad Guy" (for the sake of this theory).

Now, as time goes on, it/the Hostiles get stronger, and try to recruit people. A few it gets by accident (like the Black Freighter). However, as technology advances, it becomes "easier" to find (and maybe to leave, as well).

The Hostiles go about their merry way, interacting with more and more outside people. But for whatever reason, people on the island don't/can't give birth (Richard seems like he's been around for a while).

Then comes Dharma (for whatever reason). There seems to be a conflict there, and apparently a truce grows out of it. Paul is killed, and two hostiles are killed. If Sawyer and Juliet hadn't been there, things would have gone differently. One, the Hostiles would have either killed or kidnapped Michelle From 24. But for the sake of argument, let's assume she somehow could have escaped and got back to the Dharma place. When she went into labor, either she or the baby or both would have died without the presence of Juliet.
"
Horace is seen in a flashback building the cabin for his family. The cabin is the "home" of Jacob. Assuming Jacob is the son of Horace, he exists because Juliet (and company) were there. And I believe they make mention of Michelle From 24 delivering two weeks early; she wasn't supposed to be on the island when she delivered. This makes her child something of an anomaly. For lack of a better word, he's "special."

What if there are actually two forces now: The Island and Jacob? The Incident happens...and then the Purge...orchestrated by Ben. However, we've seen that Ben is "special" as well (his mother talking to him).

Ben gets taken in by the Hostiles. They move into the Dharma housing. Now Ben is their leader. At some point he gets rid of Widmore. They also start integrating Dharma technology and resources for their own use, including recruitment (like Juliet). At this point, they become The Others, as they are no longer just the indigenous people of the island.

Ben realizes the island is a bad thing, and that he can keep it subjugated for a while, but not indefinitely. He needs help. He's "secretly" working for Jacob, while the Others think he's working for the Island.

Locke and the rest of 815 come to the island. Locke is "special." The island get ahold of him first. He gets caught up in the allure of it, including its healing powers. The island is more than happy to use him and lead him to helping it get rid of Ben.

Ben, when he finally meets up with Locke, instead of saying "No, the island is bad, Jacob is good," decides to ease him into the idea of helping him. He lets Locke think the Island and Jacob are connected.

Meanwhile, he's trying to recruit others, like Alex's boyfriend, around to his way of thinking. He does this by brainwashing them away from the influence of the island (God Loves You As He Loved Jacob). Ben is an extreme zealout, but maybe he's fighting a war and realizes there's going to be casualties.

Widmore, being an original Hostile, is living in the real world. He's forced to cope with being tricked out of his birthright and away from his people. So he enlists the help of whoever he can...including, possibly, Hawking and/or former Dharma. When Ben realizes Locke is looking for Hawking, he realizes Widmore is with her too and Locke is working for Widmore (or believe Widmore over Ben). He kills Locke not to murder him, but to make sure he gets back to the island resurrected (for whatever reason).

Widmore says "A war is coming and you need to be on the right side" (paraphrase) to Locke. What if Locke is the key to either side winning, and if he's with Widmore, it brings the Island to power, whereas if he's with Ben, it means the Island is defeated/contained?

Locke has not been shown to be a firm decision maker in the past. He's always easily led by promise of greatness by others. He's always willing to follow whoever gives him the best story. In the end, what if the winner is determined by whoever Locke sides with, thus bringing Locke into his own as a character who has seized hold of his own destiny and future?

Sorry for the length.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Isn't your argument cicular though? You said with Juliette and Sawyer there they were able to deliver baby/Jacob. However, as we know Jacob already exists...

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What if the island is Jacob's constant? :eek:

I wonder if the island is trying to "correct" itself, and by doing so setup up for the "correct" side to win the war (versus the battle?). What if Jack & Co. are meant to be overseers of the island versus 'The Others' or 'The Hostiles'. I wonder if the island's attempt to make this correction is to bring Jack & Co. back to the past where they can make a difference (i.e. stop Ben's "purge"). That would then allow a present day war to take place (which is what Locke is waiting for).

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Just a couple of quick thoughts before I re-watch this wonderful episode.

When I saw the shot of the Ajira plane a lightbulb went off in my head. Ben/Jacob must have extensive knowledge of future events because I was thinking back to when Pickett told Sawyer they were building a runway. That must've been their entire purpose for being there on the Hydra island. They left the barracks to go build this thing on the other island without knowing why. While that was going on they also had to deal with Kate, Jack & Sawyer as well as Ben's surgery. They probably started in 2004 and stayed there until it was completed. For the express purpose of flight 316 to be able to land there in 2008. Once they finished the runway, they abandoned the Hydra and went back to the barracks to live as they did before.

Since I believe Locke & co. are in 2008, once he realizes not everyone is with him in this timeline I'm guessing he'll head straight for the cabin to try and ask Jacob for help. Or, maybe find Richard. What went wrong? Do I still need Walt, Aaron, etc...Depending on the answer he gets, I bet he heads right back to the wheel and tries again.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I like this theory. It also triggered a memory about something that happened a couple of seasons ago, when the topic was Ben's possessiveness/love (?) of Juliet. I don't remember which specific characters were involved, but I do remember one line of dialogue from an Other being:

"Of course...she looks just like her."

With "her" never being identified.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I think that quote was regarding Harper Stanhope.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Michelle always looked a little asian to me on 24.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Yeah, since when is "Reiko" an Asian name?!?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

wowowo, the baby is Jacob? what?!

So, the characters are not really LOST? But they lost in TIME? Ah!

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'm not drinking the baby is Jacob kool-aid.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

[OT Rant]Hey, that Made in China song is pretty ok. I doubt it would ever take off in today's market and the video is a bit...dramatic...but I think it would have had a fantastic shot as an alternative rock hit back in the mid- to late 90's. Back with Superdrag and Tripping Daisy and the like. Don't know about the giant rod showing mid-vid between some balloons...haha...[/OT Rant]

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Charlotte... when she was first introduced, she was at a digging site (in Egypt?) and she found polar bear bones. Any thoughts on that?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Tunisia. It's the exit point for the donkey wheel.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'd always assumed "her" referred to the little girl (Annie?) that Ben became friends with when he was younger and first got to the island. We don't really know what happened to her or how she and Ben's relationship evolved over the years.

According to imdb, she's 1/4 Japanese. Still, it's not possible for a 1/4 Japanese woman and a white man to make a fully Chinese (?) kid.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'm no good in geography... but with a little digging, i learned that Tunisia and Egypt are separated by Libya :)

Well, that still explains the Anubis stuffs on the island... Did the polar bears moved the donkey wheel too?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Perhaps, but there's also no telling when in time they were either. If they happened to pop up 4,000 years ago, the topography of the area could have easily changed quite dramatically. For all anyone knows the island in on top of volcano.

With that said, how many people here think there's anyway possible for them to explain ALL (or at least the more interesting) mysteries in the 26 or so episodes left?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

:eek: Libby!

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I thought it was rather significant that Sawyer and
Juliet killed the two hostiles to save Amy because
this will always be that moment when the truce was
broken. I'm guessing all of the crucial moments in
this story including the purge and the incident will
eventually involve our band of time travelers.
Pair 'o Docs indeed!

It also appears that Daniel will try not to talk to
Charlotte to see if that will change anything.
Speaking of her, we hear her asking about her
Dad and her British-sounding Mom hurrying her along.

Anyone else notice the red flowers that seem to
show up before someone dies? Maybe it's my
imagination but I seem to recall it several times.
Kinda like Lost's version of the red shirt.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums...lafleur191.jpg

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums...vingcap597.jpg

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I think Daniel will find out that Charlotte's mom has no intention of leaving the island. He'll end up giving his "crazy man" speech to kid Charlotte to scare her and her family off the island before the purge. That wat, even if his rant didnt save her as an adult, it would allow her to survive the purge and live a longer life.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

He was adamant about not telling her when they found her but I'm sure he'll come to his senses and realize that a.) whatever happened, happened and b.) Charlotte has to come back to the island otherwise there would be a conundrum.

I liked the conversation with Jin and Sawyer outside the infirmary where Jin was speaking perfect English (after 3 years of course). James asks how the search is going and Jin says no luck on grid 1.3.3. James says, "I guess we try 1.3.4 then." "What if we don't find them?," says Jin. "Then we keep looking." James says.

I assume they are utilizing the Flame station to search the outside world for their friends but since it's the mid-'70's I'm guessing they won't respond too well even if they find 'em.

Locke's gonna have to go back and get the rest to line 'em up in the same time frame.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

The statue is definately not the Hippo God of Fertality. Its Anubis.
I would post the link but this is my first post. Go to Sledgwebs lost stuff season five and you'll find the info you need. :)

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

My thoughts exactly -- upon seeing that picture.

We better get some actual back story for Libby before this series ends. I'm going to be very upset if we don't get something solid especially since they have at various times told us that her story would make sense and be resolved through the introduction of another character. So far, no game. And recently they said they felt her story was "pretty much done". I hope that pretty much just means they already have the pieces in line to give us that missing jigsaw puzzle piece. We've all been wondering about it for almost three years of our lives. Not that other mysteries haven't been puzzling us either... and driving us up the wall.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'm not going to go into crazy consiracy theories like all of you, but I do want to say that this was a pretty good episode.

The one line I busted out laughing at was when Sawyer made the comment about Richard's eye liner. That was pretty damn funny.

Where did the LaFleur name come from? Was that one of Sawyer's con man alias' from a previous season? He was a really good bullshitter with the Dharma people.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I dunno the ears on anubis are much larger and he also doesn't appear to be wearing that beanine/fez. Look earlier i this thread someone posted some good screen caps to show the differences. I'm not saying it's definitely not anubis (that was immediately what I thought of when I saw it too). Either way the fact that it's most likely Egyptian is a cool enough revelation by itself.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Does the actor playing Richard wear eye liner or are his lashes naturally that thick and black? Every time I've seen that guy in a show or movie, he looks the same... Lost, The Dark Knight, Veronica's Closet (I know he was on a sitcom and I think that was the one).

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

We need a stickied Richard Eyeliner thread.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Just re-watching some S5 episodes. In "The Little Prince," our travelers flip and come to the camp which seems abandoned like the Hydra station then they come across two of the outrigger canoes (with the Ajira water bottle). They take one and proceed to get shot at before flipping again into a storm which ends up being 1988 with Danielle and her crew.

There were three outriggers on the Hydra island before the pilot (Lapidus) and some woman (Sun) took one. I'm guessing Locke will take off shortly thereafter to look for his friends. That is how come there are two outriggers on the main island when the travelers take one of them. Probably Caesar and a few others took the third outrigger and went after Locke when they realized he was gone. These are the people who are shooting at them until they vanish into thin air.

The reason the camp looked abandoned was because three years earlier, all of the survivors flipped back to 1974 and lived through 1977. We only saw the lives of a few people - Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Daniel & Jin but all the rest of them should be there as well. They were all flipping through time. Bernard & Rose, all 40 or so of them. Although they can't all work for Dharma.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Yeah, uh, sorry, but I went to that website, (which sucks, by the way, as a professional site. there's more information in this thread than there!) and it doesn't offer ANY explanation of the little hat or the gargantuan Anubis ears which are conspicuously absent from the statue. I thought it was Anubis, too, but the Fertility goddess statue looks a helluva lot more like it.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Actually, at this point, they've killed most of the original 815'ers. I looked on one website that kept count everytime someone died and it came out to there being about 10-15 survivers left (including main cast members like Jack, Sawyer, Locke, etc.)

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

That's probably correct with the flaming arrow attack taking a lot of them. Maybe the producers used that knowing there would be way too many left to integrate into the '70's Dharma scenes. Still, we have to see Bernard & Rose there at some point and them meeting a young Ben and his friend, Annie.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I could see Faraday taking a different name in the Dharma camp. Maybe he ends up being the one who blows his head off in the Swann station and the "Him" that he was always telling his partner about really was meant to be Desmond all along.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

So where do the guns come from? Did the others leave them lying around, or are we to assume that Ajira 316 had an on-board armory like 815?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Although you have to wonder why Locke was telling the O6ers that everyone left on the island died. Okay, he might not be counting the Others, Juliette, and the freighter folk, and he knows Sawyer's still alive and he can't be sure all the other survivors are dead.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

He didnt say they died, he said they were going to die. Its just that none of them believed him.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I don't recall how much gunfire came from that outrigger but remember Caesar found a gun under the table at the Hydra station and he most definitely would be following Locke.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'm of the mindset now that it is the fertility god after having seen this picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/7816708@N06/2222651660

Ears work, hat works, so on and so forth. But... what does it mean?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

The ancient god protected mothers in childbirth. It seems there is a force on the island that does NOT want children to be born, but it's appearing to be that wasn't always the case (as we saw in Wednesday's episode) so the question is why did it stop?

Taweret was paired in Egyptian mythology with Apep, the god of evil. Apep is always below the horizon...could the smoke monster who lives under ground-or below the horizion- be the Apep of the island?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

But if there wasn't the issue with mothers having children on the island during the time of this last episode, why did they mention women usually leave the island to give birth?

I guess it could be because they just don't have the proper facilities on the island, but they seemed to hint that they left the island because they needed to.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I don't know why, I don't know how...but I think Ben screwed everything up for the island. I think Ben might be a force of evil on the island and he doesn't see himself that way, he has good intentions. But the island stopped working for him long ago. Jacob stopped talking to him, the island stopped healing him, and he was just winging it for many years, relying on things he could learn from the physical world and lost the faith, as it were.

I think Ben's rise to power was a mistake and not what Richard, or the island, wanted.

Now, why Richard is the one who chooses the leaders of the island remains to be seen as well. But I can't recall...did he have any involvement in Ben's life as a child on the island? If so, how was it perceived by the viewer? Did it seem that Richard was looking at young Ben as the leader of the island for the future? Because we do know Richard picks the leaders when they are young.

Which makes me wonder if Richard didn't want somebody else to be the leader of the island. Going back to the Jack was born on the island theory...maybe Richard was trying to decide between Locke and Jack? Maybe Ben became leader because Jack was taken off the island for whatever reason and Locke wouldn't come until later on.

And I wonder if Locke is really the main choice for the new leader of the island...I am thinking it's somebody else. Right now I am leaning towards Jack...the man of science becomes the man of faith type thing and fulfills the destiny he fought so much against.