superfro

Same here. I had to rewatch it because it sounded like a Kevin Spacey monologue from The Ref or something.

mosquitobite

too the people wondering about Charlotte "remembering" Daniel telling her not to come to the island...he did the same thing to Desmond, at the beginning of this season. Desmond woke up on the boat with a "new" memory that Daniel had supposedly just created. My guess is next week we'll see Daniel give Charlotte her new memory as well.

JuryDuty

Very interesting theory.

calhoun07

So if the Losties actually end up on the island in the 70's, why didn't they run into themselves when they crashed on the island in the future?

Maybe they will do a Deep Space Nine episode "Children of Time" type twist where they fix the time loop problem and it causes NOBODY to exist on the island. Ever.

LickTheABCs

or maybe the cast of Life on Mars will find out where the Island is and they can do a cross-over episode and somebody will actually watch that show. It has to happen sometime.

CharlieK

You think we'll ever find out more about the hot air balloon that crashed on the island? Was it just some dumb, rich guy flying around the world that had some really bad luck?

aintnosin

Maybe they're back when the Black Rock landed on the Island.

Draven

Guess I am going to be another voice of dissent:

What questions were answered in this episode? We still don't know why any of these events are happening! We don't know what the smoke monster is, what the Orchid station does, how Locke died, what Christian is doing in a cave, why the island has to have the O6 back, why why why? Just because they introduced connections to characters (that they probably just made up) doesn't mean anything got answered.

And anyone who thinks they had this figured out in Season 1, and that stuff like the smoke monster and Rosseau are consistent is deluding themselves. They are retconning like crazy to make some attempt to tie these things together. Characters have come and gone, they've thrown things out that will NEVER be explained, because I am convinced the writers forgot they did them (think we'll ever get an explanation on why Daniel was crying when he saw the Oceanic flight footage on the news? I sure don't! And for being a major player early on, I guess Walt and his super powers won't ever be explained either. And that's just a few of the things the show will never wrap up.)

I've watched LOST since day one, and haven't missed a single episode but I am convinced that they have tenuous plan for the end of this show and it would be better to not try to cram what's happening now into the history of the show. It won't hold up. I can't keep everything straight on a week to week basis, I know they are contradicting themselves, and I firmly believe that the time travel is a recent idea for the show. Because it doesn't fit into anything that has happened so far. They are throwing coincidences on top of coincidences (Oh Daniel, I just remembered something...I KNEW YOU WHEN I WAS A KID).

You all seem to be enjoying it and that's fine. I just can't help but think the writers are throwing darts and connecting storylines in ways that don't make any sense but also don't have to be explained. Because they can just say "it's time travel...deal with it" and I guess we have to.

I mean, this show could do anything they wanted to and explain it away as time travel. That is no longer interesting to me.

cracksky

I think Danielle's Crew were sent by Widmore. When Jin talked about finding his camp, one them mentioned a submarine which makes me think he's been here before and used it. We've seen Ben before control the smoke monsters so he was probably in there. Probably drugged them to make them go crazy so only Danielle was left.

If everyone who left the island has to come back then they also must get Walt, Michael, Desmond (who's there), Ji Yeon (was wasn't born yet), Lapidus and the O6 as well as Ben.

whotony

No

SonOfAStu

Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm glad you enjoyed the show initially. Don't let the door hit you on your way out of the thread.

DarkestPhoenix

I agree 1000% with you when you talk about these new shows...a lot of people are saying, "Wow, look at all they're showing us!" I will admit these guys are like fucking magicians to be able to get people to say that, because they haven't shown us dick. "Wow, Eloise is Faraday's mom!" Wow, big fucking deal!

However, on your other points, I'm not in total agreement. First, I do believe that time travel was on the docket from day 1, but anytime you involve time travel, you're going to encounter SERIOUS continuity problems and there will be many people who don't like your story. Also, they were pretty clear with what the island WASN'T, so I'm sure they had an idea, but they had to ease normal folks into a sci-fi show about time travel. So, disagree with that.

Insofar as you say there won't be a satisfying wrap-up...I half-agree. Here's why: Look at who J.J. Abrams is. Look at his body of work. He's all over the map. Do you think Felicity had a good wrap-up? No. Did Alias? Hell no. Will Lost? Probably not. And all the questions most likely will not be answered. However, I still think, overall, I will like the entire series for what it is, just like Alias.

Also, this is my biggest fear with beginning to watch Fringe...led down the same trap, again...

Disneyboy

This one is actually not the writers fault. Faraday was supposed to get a flashback last year which would have most likely explained this, but the writers strike cut two episodes out of the season, one of which would have been Faradays flashback. The other one would have been a Miles flashback. Maybe the writers will get around to giving us this flashback, or maybe the story has progressed to a point where the original flashback story wouldnt make sense to be told, but either way, Faraday (and Miles) were cut short thanks to the writers strike.

Judremy

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I believe that the Losties are already during the early days of the Dharma initiative. This is evidenced by the well not yet existing. The well was built by the Dharma Initiative which is how they found the wheel to move the island. The Orchid was then built to tap into the time travelling powers of that area of the island. Remember, the island won't be jumping around anymore because Locke fixed the wheel.

I also believe Daniel's diary will be made in the 1970's and left to himself when he was young. This will be how he knows so much about how everything works and why he was trying out the time travel stuff at the University in England. It's kind of a paradox, but it's not something this show hasn't already done.

As far as to why Daniel was crying about the plane, I think he knew that the island had been located and so he was really happy and knew he wasn't nuts.

redskull

Um... I think the submarine line was a joke. The French guy said Jin had already mentioned a boat and a helicopter (that none of the French people had seen, because they're in the past) and he said next Jin would be claiming there's a sub on the island too.

cracksky

Or, he threw that submarine line out there to see if Jin knew about it.

Palaver

I don't think that everyone who has left the island has to come back. It think it is the O6, specifically. My thought is that they were not supposed to leave and the universe is doing some major self-correcting to get them back.

Draven

My wife and I talked a little more about this last night, and I wanted to throw a few things out.

I understand that Desmond realized in his dream that he had talked to Faraday before on the island. So the memory was "inserted" in his head or something. Fine. Lazy, but fine.

Because they are going with that explanation, they can literally do anything they want with regards to character history. But wouldn't it have been better if they had planned it out? Like when Claire was giving birth, if Kate would have seen someone out in the woods but we never found out who it was until now? Or Charlotte had told Faraday that he looked familiar to her, or had asked him if they had met before?

That kind of thing would make me believe they had a plan from day one.

Do you think there is an actual reason or is it simply that they couldn't get back all of the actors that left? I don't believe they are thinking about all of the other people that have left the island since the show began.

cracksky

Christian said, "Everyone who left the island" and "all your friends." Desmond wasn't part of the O6. He just showed up looking for Faraday's Mother but she seemed to think he was supposed to be there.

Palaver

I think there is an actual reason. I think there is a basic time line that must occur and Desmond altered it by keeping Charlie alive longer than he should have. Through Desmond's interfering (remember he is special) the O6 were able to leave the island. Nobody else besides Charlie could have shutdown the music encoded jamming signal. The island (or the universe) is trying to bring them back to correct the time line.

Palaver

Yeah. That would have a been a good point for Locke to get a list of specific names of people that need to return. Especially since he has already made a major mistake based on semantics.

I don't think Desmond's return is required, but I think his presence introduces a certain "wildcard" element into everything. HE can change things.

Flave

While I think I agree with a lot of what you wrote in your original post, for now I just want to address this little tidbit.

Daniel was clearly in love with Charlotte even before they went to the island; it's clear he had a relationship with her off-island. I believe this scene occurs after Widmore has assembled his island expeditionary team and Faraday knew this team included Charlotte. But Faraday also knew that Charlotte would die if she returned to the island. So, when he saw the news about the plane crash, he knew that the team would soon be leaving for the island and he was about to lose Charlotte. Thus the crying.

The question is how did Faraday know Charlotte would die? Did he discover this during his time experiments? Or did his mother (our enigmatic Ms. Hawking who seems to know everything) tell him? Or maybe Desmond planted a memory in his past the way Faraday did with Desmond? In any case, one thing is clear: Faraday will go back in time (presumably when he's an older man) to warn Charlotte to never return to the island only to fall on deaf ears.

BTW, anyone else think that maybe Widmore and Hawking are/were husband and wife? And Daniel Faraday would be their son?

Kevin M. Dean

No it wouldn't have been better because people would have been bitching since season 1 about a plot hole / dropped thread about the mysterious guy in the woods that was shown once and then never mentioned again for 4 seasons. Look how people complain now about every little bit of minutia. You can't have everything and regardless of what they're doing now... whether it exactly matches their original plan or not doesn't really matter since it still kicks ass and works with what came before. As to getting answers to the major questions of the show... Do you really think you should be expecting to get those answers before the last season of the show? You will continue to get sprinkles of clues and connections until the show is in it's final wrapping up phase. That's just how this show has always worked and will continue to work.

People like to throw around the phrase "they're just making it up now", but if you think about it writers are always making it up. That's what they do. It's fiction. Things change along the way and stuff has to be adjusted. New ideas crop up that you want to add that were never thought of at the beginning. It happens in every show no matter how planned out. Even Babylon 5, arguably one of the most planned out shows ever, deviated quite a bit from the original plan while still maintaining it's key plot points.

Kevin M. Dean

But, I don't think Faraday knew until she tells him that she saw him in the past, which will cause him to warn her in her past. I don't think they showed any evidence that he knew ahead of time. Now, they may turn the crying into evidence of a suppressed memory that he was reacting to without conscious knowledge of why due to the brain scrambling that seems to go on with the really sick time travelers where their mind seems to think it's a different point in their own timeline. Maybe there's a bit of shared consciousness going on with their past selves at those times... but who knows? It's the questions that make this show great.

cracksky

Faraday did not know Charlotte would die...until she does. This is why he doesn't know why he's crying while watching the news coverage. It's a future memory. When Daniel finds himself face-to-face with a young Charlotte in the near future-past he will, of course, be that guy that she described and try to convince her not to ever come back but it won't matter because we've already seen her die.