The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25
11-26-08, 10:51 PM
#227
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Put me in the camp of not liking the ending Ronnie got. As far as what they have him on, are they allowed to use Vic's confession? I dont think it would be admissable and that its probably sealed.
The Shield is certainly one of my favorite series of all times but that bit just feels off to me.
The Shield is certainly one of my favorite series of all times but that bit just feels off to me.
Last edited by Geddlo; 11-26-08 at 10:53 PM.
11-26-08, 11:01 PM
#228
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Can I come out from hiding now? Are all the bad feelings I created in last week's thread gone?
Seriously, I thought the final episode was good, but not great. I don't understand what the Andre 3000 subplot was all about and ignoring Julian's homosexuality all this time and then show that one scene was kinda pointless.
Billings' smirk when Claudette told Dutch to fill her in on his relationship with that kid's mother was priceless.
Vic having a desk job where he has to type memos is his living hell. The gun scene at the end may have been a late edition, but it spoke volumes to me. It said to me that he isn't the type to eat his weapon like Shane. He will wait out his 3 year deal while trying to find a way to gain back a field job and find his kids.
The scene with Shane and his family hit me hard. I'm a dad and it was hard to watch.
Six Feet Under is still my favorite ending. The Shield is in my top 5 though. I hate to see it go.
Seriously, I thought the final episode was good, but not great. I don't understand what the Andre 3000 subplot was all about and ignoring Julian's homosexuality all this time and then show that one scene was kinda pointless.
Billings' smirk when Claudette told Dutch to fill her in on his relationship with that kid's mother was priceless.
Vic having a desk job where he has to type memos is his living hell. The gun scene at the end may have been a late edition, but it spoke volumes to me. It said to me that he isn't the type to eat his weapon like Shane. He will wait out his 3 year deal while trying to find a way to gain back a field job and find his kids.
The scene with Shane and his family hit me hard. I'm a dad and it was hard to watch.
Six Feet Under is still my favorite ending. The Shield is in my top 5 though. I hate to see it go.
11-26-08, 11:02 PM
#229
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I think this is how Vic and his confession go as far as Ronnie:
1) Vic got blanket immunity for that stuff. If he testifies about it, it's going to have to be disclosed that he got that deal.
2) Vic's statement is not admissible. It wouldn't qualify under any exception to hearsay.
3) Vic can absolutely testify against Ronnie. That wouldn't be hearsay.
4) Vic's contract requires he perform as ICE directs in the scope of his employment. I'd submit that includes testifying truthfully against Ronnie if so directed. Then again, it would get into some interesting supremacy clause issues if ICE directed that he not testify.
In any event, his statement could be used as a guide by anyone who had it to put together a case against Ronnie. It's a lot easier to find the evidence you need to put somebody away when you know what the crime they committed actually was. The people you ask about things and the physical evidence you try to locate becomes awfully apparent. If they got Ronnie on 10% of what Vic confessed to, that's enough for substantial jail time.
1) Vic got blanket immunity for that stuff. If he testifies about it, it's going to have to be disclosed that he got that deal.
2) Vic's statement is not admissible. It wouldn't qualify under any exception to hearsay.
3) Vic can absolutely testify against Ronnie. That wouldn't be hearsay.
4) Vic's contract requires he perform as ICE directs in the scope of his employment. I'd submit that includes testifying truthfully against Ronnie if so directed. Then again, it would get into some interesting supremacy clause issues if ICE directed that he not testify.
In any event, his statement could be used as a guide by anyone who had it to put together a case against Ronnie. It's a lot easier to find the evidence you need to put somebody away when you know what the crime they committed actually was. The people you ask about things and the physical evidence you try to locate becomes awfully apparent. If they got Ronnie on 10% of what Vic confessed to, that's enough for substantial jail time.
11-27-08, 05:55 AM
#230
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11-27-08, 05:57 AM
#231
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Can I come out from hiding now? Are all the bad feelings I created in last week's thread gone?
Seriously, I thought the final episode was good, but not great. I don't understand what the Andre 3000 subplot was all about and ignoring Julian's homosexuality all this time and then show that one scene was kinda pointless.
Billings' smirk when Claudette told Dutch to fill her in on his relationship with that kid's mother was priceless.
Vic having a desk job where he has to type memos is his living hell. The gun scene at the end may have been a late edition, but it spoke volumes to me. It said to me that he isn't the type to eat his weapon like Shane. He will wait out his 3 year deal while trying to find a way to gain back a field job and find his kids.
The scene with Shane and his family hit me hard. I'm a dad and it was hard to watch.
Six Feet Under is still my favorite ending. The Shield is in my top 5 though. I hate to see it go.
Seriously, I thought the final episode was good, but not great. I don't understand what the Andre 3000 subplot was all about and ignoring Julian's homosexuality all this time and then show that one scene was kinda pointless.
Billings' smirk when Claudette told Dutch to fill her in on his relationship with that kid's mother was priceless.
Vic having a desk job where he has to type memos is his living hell. The gun scene at the end may have been a late edition, but it spoke volumes to me. It said to me that he isn't the type to eat his weapon like Shane. He will wait out his 3 year deal while trying to find a way to gain back a field job and find his kids.
The scene with Shane and his family hit me hard. I'm a dad and it was hard to watch.
Six Feet Under is still my favorite ending. The Shield is in my top 5 though. I hate to see it go.
This is the internet the place where people post information.
You did o.k.
Last edited by wm lopez; 11-27-08 at 05:59 AM.
11-27-08, 09:39 AM
#232
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Amazing finale. Everything was nearly perfect IMO. I had to read 9 pages to catch up on this thread and was surprised to see people think that this wasn't a horrible fate for Vic. Working a desk job to normal people isn't hell, but for Mackey is certainly is. It's like taking a wild dog, cutting off his balls and chaining him to a 3 foot leash...watching him look out the window as the police cars went by was a great touch.
11-27-08, 01:09 PM
#233
One thing that I noticed during the episode that I forgot to mention: When Ronnie and Vic were going in to bust Beltran, they split up, and Ronnie stomped his feet on the floor to create a noise. During that time, Vic was surprised. I thought for a second that Ronnie was purposely trying to get the guys to ambush Vic, as if he'd figured something out.
Later, you'd see Ronnie being all "YEAH! We got him man!" and pat Vic on the back, while Vic had more of a normal demeanor. Although I guess that was just their tactic, and Vic probably wasn't too happy because he knew that Ronnie wouldn't be getting a deal.
Later, you'd see Ronnie being all "YEAH! We got him man!" and pat Vic on the back, while Vic had more of a normal demeanor. Although I guess that was just their tactic, and Vic probably wasn't too happy because he knew that Ronnie wouldn't be getting a deal.
11-27-08, 01:38 PM
#235
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Finally got around to watching this. Nothing new to add after reading through all the posts. One of the stronger series finales we've ever seen, imo. Will leave it at that. 
11-27-08, 06:38 PM
#237
Seven seasons and Lems death was the only spoiler I caught. I used to think Buffy was my all time favorite show. Now Buffy is my second.
The only problem i had was with Vic not warning Ronnie before he went and confessed. He wouldn't get in trouble since it was before the meeting and Vic probably knew how these immunity deals work.
Other than that I was very satisfied with the finale and the whole series overall.
This show deserves a shit load of Emmys!
The only problem i had was with Vic not warning Ronnie before he went and confessed. He wouldn't get in trouble since it was before the meeting and Vic probably knew how these immunity deals work.
Other than that I was very satisfied with the finale and the whole series overall.
This show deserves a shit load of Emmys!
11-27-08, 07:33 PM
#238
DVD Talk Legend
Seven seasons and Lems death was the only spoiler I caught. I used to think Buffy was my all time favorite show. Now Buffy is my second.
The only problem i had was with Vic not warning Ronnie before he went and confessed. He wouldn't get in trouble since it was before the meeting and Vic probably knew how these immunity deals work.
Other than that I was very satisfied with the finale and the whole series overall.
This show deserves a shit load of Emmys!
The only problem i had was with Vic not warning Ronnie before he went and confessed. He wouldn't get in trouble since it was before the meeting and Vic probably knew how these immunity deals work.
Other than that I was very satisfied with the finale and the whole series overall.
This show deserves a shit load of Emmys!
11-27-08, 11:34 PM
#239
Has anyone checked out the videos on the FX website that feature the cast? There's a ton of them, but one is really good which features Chiklis and Kenny Johnson (Lem) discussing what their regrets (as characters) was on the series, and what actions they wish their characters could reverse during the series run.
Also a very good discussion about the Lem's death between the two, as well.
Also a very good discussion about the Lem's death between the two, as well.
Last edited by PacMan2006; 11-27-08 at 11:37 PM.
11-27-08, 11:59 PM
#240
I forgot to mention that the combination of a show and music can really change a song's appeal to me. I had Beck's Guero album since it came out around 3 and a half years ago, and I never really gave Farewell Ride a second glance. Just a throwaway song.
But after seeing some Shield promos in the summer and early fall, I thought "Wait...is that...Beck?" Then I realized I had that song. The way that the trailers were made, combined with the song, made the song itself awesome, and I listened to it a lot more. I listened to it as I read this thread and other Shield finale threads...great stuff. I especially liked the trailer which showed Mackey fading into dust.
On another note, I wanted to share this quote from inuyashafan24 on GameFAQs regarding Mackey's 10 page single spaced reports.
But after seeing some Shield promos in the summer and early fall, I thought "Wait...is that...Beck?" Then I realized I had that song. The way that the trailers were made, combined with the song, made the song itself awesome, and I listened to it a lot more. I listened to it as I read this thread and other Shield finale threads...great stuff. I especially liked the trailer which showed Mackey fading into dust.
On another note, I wanted to share this quote from inuyashafan24 on GameFAQs regarding Mackey's 10 page single spaced reports.
The spin-off:
THE DESK
Random FBI agent: Vic, this report was written in size 32 font.
Vic: Well next time you should choose your words a little more carefully. Smirk and walk off
THE DESK
Random FBI agent: Vic, this report was written in size 32 font.
Vic: Well next time you should choose your words a little more carefully. Smirk and walk off
11-28-08, 04:21 AM
#241
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Loved the finale
I couldnt help but laugh at the end and its irony. Hey Office fans, didnt you think of Dwight trying to set up Toby with the drugs and mention the Shield?
Priceless.
I knew it was going to be family suicide. But I thought Maura would instigate it or do it. I think was packing heat and going to look for his family, maybe kill Corrine. He had some smirk.
I couldnt help but laugh at the end and its irony. Hey Office fans, didnt you think of Dwight trying to set up Toby with the drugs and mention the Shield?
Priceless.I knew it was going to be family suicide. But I thought Maura would instigate it or do it. I think was packing heat and going to look for his family, maybe kill Corrine. He had some smirk.
11-28-08, 08:31 AM
#244
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This was just about perfect. I loved every bit of the ending Vic got. I interpret it to mean that Vic is going to blow his deal, be found to be in noncompliance, perhaps go on the lam, and ultimately be prosecuted for all his crimes.
Minor quibble: Can the federal government really grant immunity from state prosecution? The state is a separate soverign under the Eleventh Amendment. Just because he can't be charged by the Feds doesn't mean the state of California couldn't charge Vic, does it? Not a criminal attorney so I don't know for certain. But it seems like a clear federalism issue if the federal government could come in and grant immunity from state prosecution for ongoing state investigations.
Minor quibble: Can the federal government really grant immunity from state prosecution? The state is a separate soverign under the Eleventh Amendment. Just because he can't be charged by the Feds doesn't mean the state of California couldn't charge Vic, does it? Not a criminal attorney so I don't know for certain. But it seems like a clear federalism issue if the federal government could come in and grant immunity from state prosecution for ongoing state investigations.
I think this is how Vic and his confession go as far as Ronnie:
1) Vic got blanket immunity for that stuff. If he testifies about it, it's going to have to be disclosed that he got that deal.
2) Vic's statement is not admissible. It wouldn't qualify under any exception to hearsay.
3) Vic can absolutely testify against Ronnie. That wouldn't be hearsay.
4) Vic's contract requires he perform as ICE directs in the scope of his employment. I'd submit that includes testifying truthfully against Ronnie if so directed. Then again, it would get into some interesting supremacy clause issues if ICE directed that he not testify.
In any event, his statement could be used as a guide by anyone who had it to put together a case against Ronnie. It's a lot easier to find the evidence you need to put somebody away when you know what the crime they committed actually was. The people you ask about things and the physical evidence you try to locate becomes awfully apparent. If they got Ronnie on 10% of what Vic confessed to, that's enough for substantial jail time.
1) Vic got blanket immunity for that stuff. If he testifies about it, it's going to have to be disclosed that he got that deal.
2) Vic's statement is not admissible. It wouldn't qualify under any exception to hearsay.
3) Vic can absolutely testify against Ronnie. That wouldn't be hearsay.
4) Vic's contract requires he perform as ICE directs in the scope of his employment. I'd submit that includes testifying truthfully against Ronnie if so directed. Then again, it would get into some interesting supremacy clause issues if ICE directed that he not testify.
In any event, his statement could be used as a guide by anyone who had it to put together a case against Ronnie. It's a lot easier to find the evidence you need to put somebody away when you know what the crime they committed actually was. The people you ask about things and the physical evidence you try to locate becomes awfully apparent. If they got Ronnie on 10% of what Vic confessed to, that's enough for substantial jail time.
11-28-08, 09:09 AM
#245
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It's interesting to note that both Shane and Vic made critical bad decisions based on misinformation, which could have been solved with a little more time, and talking to their friends. Seems like Romeo and Juliet. Except replace the "lovers" angle with friends/family.
Shane killed Lem due to thinking that he was going to turn on them, not knowing that he fully intended to go to Mexico.
Vic accepted the deal, basically turning on Ronnie, due to thinking that Corinne was under arrest.
Shane killed Lem due to thinking that he was going to turn on them, not knowing that he fully intended to go to Mexico.
Vic accepted the deal, basically turning on Ronnie, due to thinking that Corinne was under arrest.
I'm still not sure I'm convinced that Vic absolutely couldn't have warned Ronnie. Obviously it was weighing in on him as he had to USE Ronnie to take down Beltran after Vic had already sold out Ronnie for immunity for himself and his family, and you can see this right after they take Beltran down: Vic's contemplative, reluctant and trying to find the courage to tell Ronnie that there's no deal for him at all. Then they both get told that they're needed at the barn...I feel like Vic should have seen the red warning flags at this point and said, "Listen, man, you gotta get out of here. There's no deal." Of course, he also couldn't have known what was going to happen, and he did try to warn him at the barn, but it was far too late at that point. And if I'm not mistaken, I don't think telling Ronnie to gtfo would have violated his ICE immunity clause at all.
11-28-08, 03:22 PM
#247
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11-29-08, 10:17 PM
#248
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Minor quibble: Can the federal government really grant immunity from state prosecution? The state is a separate soverign under the Eleventh Amendment. Just because he can't be charged by the Feds doesn't mean the state of California couldn't charge Vic, does it? Not a criminal attorney so I don't know for certain. But it seems like a clear federalism issue if the federal government could come in and grant immunity from state prosecution for ongoing state investigations.
In Vic's case, he didn't have an attorney. The biggest worry I'd have is that some of my crime extended into Mexico and Mexico might just be asked to prosecute him if they ever want rid of Vic. ICE could easily foresee that Vic probably violated state law -- in fact, his story made it clear state law immunity was the biggest thing he was after. They could have had no idea about Mexico.
Mara was a suitable and mostly loyal wife to Shane. I'll give her that. She was FAR from a great wife, though. She was the one who started all that shit with Tavon, which was really the tipping point with everything. She took the money as mentioned. She enhanced Shane's ego to the point he thought he could actually be Vic when it was all too clear he couldn't ever pull that off. She is just as culpable for what went down as Corinne was, which makes her probably half as culpable as Shane, Vic, Ronnie, et al.
Last edited by Jimmy James; 11-30-08 at 07:41 AM.
11-30-08, 12:42 AM
#250
DVD Talk Legend
I re watched the first episode tonight, after watching the finale again. Ronnie is barely seen, but with a mustache, and so many seeds planted that carried all the way through: Terry's death, Aceveda as mayor, taking Vic down, Vic and Danni's 'relationship' etc etc.
I will miss this show
I will miss this show
