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The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

Old 11-30-08, 07:48 AM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I always saw the immunity deal (this kind, with Vic) as a thing of pure fiction, kinda like Superman flying. But it didn't bother me in the least.
That's probably the best policy. This sort of deal would never happen the way it did for precisely the reasons why it was a bad idea on The Shield. As I understand it only having colleagues negotiate stuff like this, it's often an awkward dance involving filling the government in on the general nature of the offenses covered without giving them enough to figure out the specifics themselves and go after your guy. It's also usually best done when the government already has a case almost built against somebody but just needs a little more and that little more is what your guy can give them.
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Old 11-30-08, 08:35 AM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
I re watched the first episode tonight, after watching the finale again. Ronnie is barely seen, but with a mustache, and so many seeds planted that carried all the way through: Terry's death, Aceveda as mayor, taking Vic down, Vic and Danni's 'relationship' etc etc.

I will miss this show
And in the second episode Shane was such a different chartacter than he was in the finale. He truly felt remorse for Terry and Acevada got verey close to breaking him down and getting a confession out of him.

Vic on the other hand was still the same cold hearted bastard.
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Old 11-30-08, 09:53 AM
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Is the finale going to be replayed again after tonight? Time Warner Cable in my town had some sort of outage on Tuesday and about 5 channels, including FX, have been out ever since.
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Old 11-30-08, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Roper View Post
Is the finale going to be replayed again after tonight? Time Warner Cable in my town had some sort of outage on Tuesday and about 5 channels, including FX, have been out ever since.
12:30am tonight (or Monday) is your last chance to see it.
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Old 11-30-08, 12:44 PM
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Not sure if anyone mentioned this:

During the final Lloyd scene, anyone notice that his attorney was looking over fingerprints?

Also, Lloyd was wearing prison garb (the blue shirt) and handcuffed.
Dutch was allowed to talk to him again.

They didnt' outright say it, but it is safe to say Lloyd was arrested.
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Old 11-30-08, 02:02 PM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I always saw the immunity deal (this kind, with Vic) as a thing of pure fiction, kinda like Superman flying. But it didn't bother me in the least.
I could see them giving him immunity for any crimes committed while undercover in the cartel but not blanket immunity for any and all crimes during his lifetime
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Old 11-30-08, 03:12 PM
  #257  
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Another strange thing about his confessions was that he started with Terry Crowley. It's not like his corrupt actions began in Season 1 Episode 1, and the Strike Team had obviously been around for a bit. So why didn't they at least have a cut before he got to Terry to show that he'd been at it before that.
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Old 11-30-08, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bluetoast View Post
Another strange thing about his confessions was that he started with Terry Crowley. It's not like his corrupt actions began in Season 1 Episode 1, and the Strike Team had obviously been around for a bit. So why didn't they at least have a cut before he got to Terry to show that he'd been at it before that.
Because Vic admiting first to what the fans call "the original sin" would have the most impact on the audience.
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Old 11-30-08, 03:57 PM
  #259  
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Yeah, I realize it works from a dramatic standpoint, but not necessarily in terms of realism.
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Old 11-30-08, 04:19 PM
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He didn't have to start at the beginning, he was probably starting with his biggest crimes first.
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Old 11-30-08, 07:20 PM
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I think it was pretty clear that he was starting with the big offenses in rough chronological order. It makes a certain amount of real life sense (though, as covered, a lot of that makes no real life sense), and it definitely makes sense from a dramatic standpoint. The only other way they could have played it would have been roughly a reverse chronological thing where the ICE agents were already shocked by the money train and everything and then he drops the final bomb with Terry's murder.
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Old 12-03-08, 10:24 AM
  #262  
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Tuesday night has come and gone and I already miss the Shield. Ended up watching basketball instead.

Time to watch the series all over again on DVD!
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Old 12-03-08, 01:38 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
Tuesday night has come and gone and I already miss the Shield. Ended up watching basketball instead.
Yep, it's left a void, which I filled with an earlier bedtime last night.
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Old 12-03-08, 03:52 PM
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Yeah I ended up starting Mad Men, since I got the Blu-ray yesterday. Forgot about The Mentalist, which I usually watched before The Shield.
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Old 12-03-08, 04:22 PM
  #265  
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I'm now watching The Big Break on The Golf Channel.
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Old 12-03-08, 04:33 PM
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I saw the final episode on Sunday and thought it was pretty good. The impact of the some of the bigger scenes may have been weakened by my reading the synopsis beforehand since I couldn't wait to find out what happened.

The one thing I refuse to accept is Ronnie Gardocki going down for all the crimes committed by the Strike Team. Maybe I'm still in denial, but I loved the stoic, calculating nature of the character. One of my favorite scenes in an earlier episode was when he told Shane he didn't believe in God and Shane said he would since that was the only thing that would let you out of lockup once a day. He had a practical perspective that even exceeded Vic's. During one interogation scene, Kavanaugh (Forest Whitaker) even commented he was very impressed on how Ronnie managed his finances so he couldn't be linked back to the Money Train Robbery.

I found David Snell's final scene to be severely out of character. This was a guy who was completely casual when they set up Shane to be killed by the Armenians and Vic tried to stop it. Now he's crying because the entire Vendrell family is dead instead if attempting to determine if he's referenced in the suicide note and figure out if he had a confession hidden in his house. I could also see him being completely cool when arrested so he could plead ignorance when the trial is set.

If they do a movie, I really hope Ronnie gets away clean. I can't see Vic testifying against him and everything else is circumstantial evidence. Vic said he alone planned the murder of Terry Crowley which Ronnie could use as a legitimate defense that he wasn't involved because he was in another part of the crack house. Also, there's no physical evidence (thanks to Lem) to prove his participation in the Money Train robbery. Also, the only other witnesses for his crimes were Shane and Lem. I could honestly see him saying Vic and Shane were the corrupt influences of the Strike Team and somehow he and Lem (to preserve Lem's memory) are getting persecuted for it.

Also, I don't know how high profile Mackey was since they referenced him being in the newspapers, but prosecuting Ronnie is a bad idea. He could simply threaten to throw the entire police force being filled with dirty cops as a way for the DA and the future mayor to avoid the issue.
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Old 12-05-08, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Barings View Post
I found David Snell's final scene to be severely out of character. This was a guy who was completely casual when they set up Shane to be killed by the Armenians and Vic tried to stop it. Now he's crying because the entire Vendrell family is dead instead if attempting to determine if he's referenced in the suicide note and figure out if he had a confession hidden in his house. I could also see him being completely cool when arrested so he could plead ignorance when the trial is set.
I understand your point that in the past several episodes, Ronnie was seriously wanting to take Shane out. I remember one scene where he had such an evil, almost uncontrollable look as he eyed Shane.

But I think it's very realistic that upon hearing the news of the murder-suicide that it would be emotional to someone who'd been through all the good and bad times with Shane. Ronnie was the reasonable and big-picture guy, but I never considered him as "bad" as Vic or Shane.

The finality of a one-time brother being dead, regardless of where their relationship was at the time, would still have that impact. Vic hid his emotions when looking at the photos of Shane's suicide, but you could see them underneath the surface, even on him.
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Old 12-05-08, 01:08 AM
  #268  
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The looks Vic gave said it all. He was also hurt hearing what happened, and that was even after everything that was said on the phone earlier. The entire series is about how people deal with the results of the choices they make. Of course, Vic and Ronnie are two different animals.

Walt Goggins mentioned in one of the pre-season 7 video interviews that Shane had a tremendous disconnect between the actual act of killing Lem, and the ramifications of that act. I think that really applies to Vic and Ronnie as well. The difference was that things kept getting so bad as the season progressed, and people normally do anything to save their own skin without worrying about the next guy. Vic screwed Ronnie, but Ronnie trusted Vic over his own better judgement, which showed he still had redeemable qualities. Remember that Ronnie told Vic he wouldn't drown for him, and later wanted to run for it.

Vic is sitting alone at the end of the episode, no friends, no family, no place to go, stripped of his bad boy image and finally exposed as a murderer who also ratted on his last friend. Shane was correct in calling him a hypocrite. Vic, unlike Ronnie, has no redeemable qualities left. The fact that he excludes Ronnie and Shane in the Strike Team photo on his desk shows how he blocks things out by living in denial. The irony is, Lem was the conscious of the team and would probably have been disgusted by how all three of them acted in seasons six and seven. Hell, Lem was disgusted at even thinking that Vic killed Terry.

It's quite possible that Ronnie was really thinking about how things got so bad for all of them. Ronnie just couldn't control the guilt the same way Vic can.
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Old 03-03-09, 02:13 PM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

Just finished watching this shows entire run on DVD (well, downloaded the last season, because I couldn't wait).

Amazing. Just took the top spot on dramatic shows on my list (behind 24).

I thought that it would end differently...originally, I thought that Ronnie would kill Vic, but then that didn't need to happen...so when I saw Dutch and the officers on their way to get Ronnie at the barn, I thought Ronnie would have been gone. I was disappointed to see him go to jail.

The Shane thing was chilling. Old Cletus, taking his family with him.

Great show, and sad to see it go.

= J
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Old 08-14-09, 10:39 AM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

I never understood what it meant for your blood to run cold until this episodes reveal. My jaw actually dropped and my blood ran cold - and I was sitting by the fire. The Why We Fight episode of Band of Brothers is the only thing close for me.
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Old 02-05-11, 07:21 PM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

I had been watching the series for the first time over the past couple months, and watched the finale last night. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. It was completely unpredictable, yet totally satisfying. I cannot imagine the show now ending any other way (my guess was Vic is either going to die or end up in jail, what else could happen?).
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Old 02-05-11, 07:44 PM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

Years later and it still gives me chills thinking about it. I revisit key scenes from the episode from time to time. The only thing that I didn't really like was Andre 3000's subplot.
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Old 02-06-11, 12:18 AM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

Originally Posted by bluetoast View Post
Years later and it still gives me chills thinking about it. I revisit key scenes from the episode from time to time. The only thing that I didn't really like was Andre 3000's subplot.
Agreed, Andre 3K was not necessary to the episode, should have been cut, or at least some of his screentime.
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Old 02-06-11, 01:13 AM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

There's a great interview by Alan Sepinwall with Walton Goggins about his character on Justified, but there were a few questions about The Shield, most notably the final episode and the fate of Shane:

I want to ask about that. I remember Shawn (Ryan) saying after we saw "The Shield" finale that he didn’t want to tell you what Shane did until he absolutely had to, because he didn’t want you to be playing anything (in earlier episodes) informed by that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he didn’t. And I don’t think that Boyd kind of has that problem on this show, even though I know a little bit more - probably 2 or 3 episodes more than I did with Shane - because he’s so wily and so rascally that it’s like riding a fucking bull. You don’t know where he’s going to move.

Can I ask what your reaction was when you got that final finale script?

I was doing Spike Lee’s movie ("Miracle at St. Anna").

You were in Italy for that. That’s right.

And I got the script sent and they delivered it to my room, and I like was shaking, trembling knowing that everyone else had already read it. And I was alone and I wasn’t with everyone. And they read it that day. And no one had reached out to me. And it was like, "Why wouldn’t you fucking e-mail me, man?" And I was like reaching out to everyone. "Hey, what’s going on?" And radio silence. And then I read it and honest to God Alan my reaction was reading it and I got through it and I read what happened and I did this (Goggins stands up, furious): "Fuck this! Fuck all you people! Fuck all of you! I’m not fucking doing that! There’s no fucking way I’m doing that. There’s no fucking way!" (he sits back down, perfectly calm again) That was it, man. That was my reaction.

Wow.

And I went and I had a glass of wine and I had 2 glasses of wine, and then I came back up. Because you know for me it was, "You want me to say the n-word. You give Shane all the shit, right? You make him do and say anything," and what I felt like I wanted to do is to have all of those things and still have the audience conflicted about how they felt about him. Still have them see it from his point of view. And I thought, "Well, if he makes the decision to kill his family, he’ll never recover from that. I mean, how can you ever fucking forgive that?" And I’ve overcome so many obstacles to have people like to spend time with Shane. And then the second time I read it, I thought, "Oh my God no. This is the greatest gift in the world. Not only have you given me an obstacle to overcome, but you’ve essentially let Shane be the moral kind of victim of all of this. He’s the martyr. He’s the ultimate martyr for all of this life and he is the one who is going to sacrifice himself and his family — his piece of it for penance for all the crimes they’ve committed. And I didn’t know until we were watching the fucking show with 400 people, and I didn’t even tell my gal and I didn’t tell my mother. I told no one. And I’m sitting there with her and we’re watching it and he’s in the bathroom and he’s writing the note and they’re outside the room. No one even thinks how the fuck is this going to happen. And then it happens and you could hear a pin drop. There was silence. And the next thing I heard was weeping. And I thought, "It worked. Oh my God it worked. Oh, they’re going to love him. Oh they’re going to love him. " So a big load off.

(Few more questions about Justified)

I want to go back to "The Shield" finale and what happens with Shane and the family for a minute. First of all, I often ask actors when they’ve played a scene that’s particularly tough on the audience what it was like filming that day. And they’ve often like, "Oh, it was just another day on the set." But when you were doing the family meeting and all of that, what was that atmosphere like?

It never was just another day for me on the set. I mean, it was my last day. They purposely did that. So it was the very last day. And it was, honest to God, I’m getting emotional right now thinking about it because I haven’t thought about it in a long time. It broke my heart. It broke my heart because I was saying goodbye. First and foremost I was saying goodbye to the crew. And they were really like family. And I know people say that and make that comparison all the time, but for this show in particular - as I could imagine for The Sopranos or anything that requires you to leave your heart on the fucking mat every single day - these people witness it. And they help you bring it forth. So it was really sad to say goodbye to them. And then my cast members, even though Michael and I talk all the time and Kenny and I talk all the time. I see these guys a lot, it was hard to say goodbye to looking at them every day and working with them every day because I so enjoyed watching them.

And then most importantly it was sad to say goodbye to Shane. It was sad to say goodbye to this guy who I put on his leather jacket every day, you know, for 7 years and the thought that I was never going to get to be him again, it was just so painful. But in hindsight the fact that he died made that healing much quicker for me, because I didn’t have to think about where he was in the world and what he might be doing. It was over. It was done. And I could walk away from it, you know? And it seems silly I guess for an actor to say that. I mean, there are a lot of fucking really, really important things going on in the world, but it is my art and it’s our art, it’s your art, it’s what we do. And you’re providing entertainment for people. I grew up with a family of storytellers and watching my family prepare to get up to tell a story, which would last for 30 minutes, I would just get ready and say, "Okay, the next storyteller’s getting up. What’s this going to be?" We provide an escape for people. It’s like reading a novel or anything else. It’s that medium and I’m just so fucking proud to be included in this group of people, man. And all that’s sincere. That’s not bullshit.

The other thing is about that scene, from time to time one of my readers will ask, "Does Mara know?" When Shane calls the family meeting, is it just to give them the drinks or is it to discuss it with her and let her choose to participate?

I think it’s probably to discuss it with her, you know? No one’s ever asked me that question and I’ve thought about that. I don’t think that she went into this unwillingly. I think that she was a willing participant. Yeah.
http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-al...walton-goggins (Note: spoilers abound for Justified)
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Old 08-07-12, 09:41 PM
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Re: The Shield *SERIES FINALE* "Family Meeting" 11/25

I mentioned this in one of the Breaking Bad threads, but I never gave The Shield a fair shake when it initially aired. When it was first on I just chalked it up to an HBO show being on basic cable. I saw a couple of episodes here and there over the years, but never really got in to it.

A few weeks ago I gave the pilot a spin, and I was hooked. I couldn't believe what I was missing out on. It's got to be one of the grittiest shows I've ever seen, and I loved every second of it. I blew through the whole series in about 3 weeks, and just finished the series finale tonight. I saw some of it coming but I wasn't expecting Shane's way out (I was guessing until the end), or Vic's deal to actually go through. The fact that he did that to Ronnie, which to me always felt like the most innocent one (if you can say that) of the Strike Team, just really is true definition of Mackey's character.

Him setting up all the photos at his desk, getting teary-eyed... that man has no one left. He destroyed everybody's life, and now he's completely alone. Chaining him to desk duty and having the HR rep go over the break room and the AC was pretty funny though, since that's absolute last place you figure'd you'd ever see Vic Mackey.

It's definitely one of the greatest TV series I've ever watched from beginning to end. I had a few problems with it in terms of loose ends, though. They tied up that Tavon issue with a tacked on subplot for one episode in the final season. I thought that should've been resolved or at least mentioned well before that since we hadn't seen that guy for 4 years.

Also, what happened with them going in to detail with Julien's conflicting sexuality and his marriage? They threw that entire story out the window after the season finale where he was going to a sperm bank. It's like they wanted you to lose interest in his personal life. Then they threw in one last thing in the finale with him looking at two men holding hands. Okay so he's still conflicted, but they hadn't mentioned anything in nearly 3 or 4 seasons, so why bring it up?

I'm sure there are others but some of it I just chalked up to Kurt Sutter writing. You see things that are brought up and then forgotten about in Sons of Anarchy, so it seemed like his stamp.

I had a leading suspicion that Dutch may have been a murderer or some sort of sadistic person when he wasn't in his "$100 suit". Between killing the cat, having kiddie porn on the department issued laptop (which he said was for a case), I thought they would've went somewhere with that. I really liked Dutch, but I always thought there was something more with him. A shame they didn't explore his personal life a little more.

I've watched Sons of Anarchy before The Shield, so seeing Dutch as the same ATF agent who was a complete psycho in the first season of Sons was a drastic 180 in terms of character.

Overall though, excellent show. A shame I didn't watch it sooner. I would love to see Michael Chiklis in something else that sticks but it's going to be hard seeing him as anything other than Vic Mackey.
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