New CG effects for Star Trek TOS? (merged)
08-31-06, 02:35 PM
#76
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are nuts! 
Camp and nostalghia is all this stuff has going for it. Replacing the crappy FX would be like replacing Shatner's bad acting or Uhuru's three-inch miniskirt or Bones' ridiculous country doctor affectations.
Camp and nostalghia is all this stuff has going for it. Replacing the crappy FX would be like replacing Shatner's bad acting or Uhuru's three-inch miniskirt or Bones' ridiculous country doctor affectations.
08-31-06, 02:41 PM
#77
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
I find this very intriguing, and will most likely check out a few episodes, but I agree with the people who are saying it will be jarring. I mean, if they're going to change the outdoor scenes and the exterior spaceship shots, everything else is still going to look dated, especially the Enterprise interiors and the costumes and the make-up and the over-the-top acting.
In my mind, there's simply no way they can remaster SOME of the effects in this series and create a larger fanbase for the show, because if the reason they are doing this is to satisfy people who complain about how cheap-looking it is, these same people will still bitch about everything that didn't get updated. And purists will balk at the idea and stay away.
I'm a huge TOS fan, but I just don't understand the point...
In my mind, there's simply no way they can remaster SOME of the effects in this series and create a larger fanbase for the show, because if the reason they are doing this is to satisfy people who complain about how cheap-looking it is, these same people will still bitch about everything that didn't get updated. And purists will balk at the idea and stay away.
I'm a huge TOS fan, but I just don't understand the point...
08-31-06, 03:22 PM
#78
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Well at least they came up with an explanation for the smooth headed Klingons in the 4th season of Enterprise. That will save them from some CGI work. 
08-31-06, 03:28 PM
#79
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by ThatGuamGuy
I don't see how the situations are comprable. Michael Curtiz chose to shoot 'Casablanca' in black and white, even though color was an option at the time. Gene Roddenberry chose to make 'Star Trek' with the best special effects available at the time. Updating those special effects would not change anything about the show which does work (such as acting, writing, etc.).
08-31-06, 04:10 PM
#80
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 17,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can see this if it was, say, a one-off deal of the top 10 episodes or something, in a 2-disc set.
But don't change the theme song--it's one of the best sci-fi themes ever!
But don't change the theme song--it's one of the best sci-fi themes ever!
08-31-06, 04:26 PM
#81
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This isn't related to the new DVDs but I saw this on Metafilter.com a while back...
"In 2003, Paramount proposed redoing the special effects for the original "Star Trek" series and rereleasing the episodes as "Star Trek Enhanced". Two CGI firms redid the effects for the teaser, the opening credits and title, and the first two acts of The Doomsday Machine as a proof-of-concept with no changes to the acting or the story. Paramount ultimately decided not to pursue the project, but it's interesting to see how two different CGI firms handled the transporter, phasers, and starship effects." -http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/52506
Here are the tests for comparison...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HSYC6Wlbv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9XHmj-dPEY
"In 2003, Paramount proposed redoing the special effects for the original "Star Trek" series and rereleasing the episodes as "Star Trek Enhanced". Two CGI firms redid the effects for the teaser, the opening credits and title, and the first two acts of The Doomsday Machine as a proof-of-concept with no changes to the acting or the story. Paramount ultimately decided not to pursue the project, but it's interesting to see how two different CGI firms handled the transporter, phasers, and starship effects." -http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/52506
Here are the tests for comparison...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HSYC6Wlbv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9XHmj-dPEY
08-31-06, 06:14 PM
#82
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
uh oh, from Ain't it cool news...
"...The TREK TOS will be put through a makeover. New FX for all of the space material. A new title sequence. The effects will be brought to us by the same team who handled CATEGORY 7: THE END OF THE WORLD – an in-house FX group at CBS. One source characterized the overall nature of this undertaking as “incredibly cheap”...
Oy, I saw that show and the FX were hardly state of the CGI art......
I wouldn't be surprised if this was not broadcast in HD. That way to finally get them in HD, you will have to buy season sets at like $500 a pop.
So not just the FX, the music has been re-recorded, at least the theme. If they do indeed re-record other music passages the sound difference from the 60's dialog and sound effects to a modern recording of music tracks, probably done on the cheap on a synth might be jarring. Are they replacing sound effects as well?
And once again, "you purists have your versions on DVD already" is missing the point. I'm sure many people want the original versions on HD as well, grainy cheesy FX and all...
"STAR TREK redefined science-fiction and constantly pushed the envelope with concepts that were ahead of their time," said John Nogawski, president of CBS Paramount Domestic Television. "By giving the series a digital upgrade using the best technology available today, it will continue to be a leader in cutting-edge television programming as we introduce the series to a new generation of viewers..."
How are you gonna explain the contrast between the spiffy new CGI FX and the VERY 60's TV era lighting, clothing, makeup, acting styles and hairdos....
Ah, the poor younger generation, gotta make everything easy for them to digest....
and the ones who care so much about "digital" quality that they load up their ipods to the brim with tinny sounding heavily compressed mp3's... Yep, some new whizzing CGI ships will really draw them into the show....
By re-doing the effects and not just perhaps restoring them and refining them it implies that the all the hard work done by all those super talented craftspeople is basically worthless today. Sad IMHO...
but what do I know
"...The TREK TOS will be put through a makeover. New FX for all of the space material. A new title sequence. The effects will be brought to us by the same team who handled CATEGORY 7: THE END OF THE WORLD – an in-house FX group at CBS. One source characterized the overall nature of this undertaking as “incredibly cheap”...
Oy, I saw that show and the FX were hardly state of the CGI art......
I wouldn't be surprised if this was not broadcast in HD. That way to finally get them in HD, you will have to buy season sets at like $500 a pop.
So not just the FX, the music has been re-recorded, at least the theme. If they do indeed re-record other music passages the sound difference from the 60's dialog and sound effects to a modern recording of music tracks, probably done on the cheap on a synth might be jarring. Are they replacing sound effects as well?
And once again, "you purists have your versions on DVD already" is missing the point. I'm sure many people want the original versions on HD as well, grainy cheesy FX and all...
"STAR TREK redefined science-fiction and constantly pushed the envelope with concepts that were ahead of their time," said John Nogawski, president of CBS Paramount Domestic Television. "By giving the series a digital upgrade using the best technology available today, it will continue to be a leader in cutting-edge television programming as we introduce the series to a new generation of viewers..."
How are you gonna explain the contrast between the spiffy new CGI FX and the VERY 60's TV era lighting, clothing, makeup, acting styles and hairdos....
Ah, the poor younger generation, gotta make everything easy for them to digest....
and the ones who care so much about "digital" quality that they load up their ipods to the brim with tinny sounding heavily compressed mp3's... Yep, some new whizzing CGI ships will really draw them into the show....
By re-doing the effects and not just perhaps restoring them and refining them it implies that the all the hard work done by all those super talented craftspeople is basically worthless today. Sad IMHO...
but what do I know
08-31-06, 06:23 PM
#83
DVD Talk Legend
"STAR TREK" ENTERING A NEW FRONTIER
The Original Series Returns To Broadcast Syndication For The First Time In 16 Years With Brand-New Digitally Remastered Episodes To Celebrate Its 40th Anniversary
Hollywood, Calif. -- STAR TREK is getting a 21st century makeover. CBS Paramount Domestic Television is releasing digitally remastered episodes of the iconic 1960s sci-fi series, with all new special effects and music, to celebrate the groundbreaking series' 40th anniversary, it was announced today by John Nogawski, president of CBS Paramount Domestic Television.
The new episodes also mark the first time in 16 years that the original STAR TREK series can be seen in broadcast syndication. The episodes will begin airing on the more than 200 stations that own the rights to the weekend broadcast syndication window starting Sept. 16 (check local listings for station and dates). All 79 episodes of the original STAR TREK series will eventually be remastered, with the first batch of episodes chosen from a list of STAR TREK fans' favorite shows.
"STAR TREK redefined science-fiction and constantly pushed the envelope with concepts that were ahead of their time," Nogawski said. "By giving the series a digital upgrade using the best technology available today, it will continue to be a leader in cutting-edge television programming as we introduce the series to a new generation of viewers."
The most noticeable change will be redoing many of the special effects, created with 1960s technology, with 21st century computer-generated imagery (CGI). That includes:
• Space ship exteriors -- The space ship Enterprise, as well as other Starships, will be replaced with state of the art CGI-created ships. The new computer-generated Enterprise is based on the exact measurements of the original model, which now rests in the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C.
• Show opening -- The Enterprise and planets seen in the main title sequence will be redone, giving them depth and dimension for the first time.
• Galaxy shots -- All the graphics of the galaxy, so frequently seen through the window on the Enterprise's bridge, will be redone.
• Exteriors -- The battle scenes, planets and ships from other cultures (notably the Romulan Bird of Prey and Klingon Battle Cruisers) will be updated.
• Background scenes -- Some of the iconic, yet flat, matte paintings used as backdrops for the strange, new worlds explored by the Enterprise crew will get a CGI face-lift, adding atmosphere and lighting.
The refurbished episodes also feature higher quality sound for the famous opening theme. The original score by Emmy Award-winning composer Alexander Courage has been re-recorded in state-of-the-art digital stereo audio with an orchestra and a female singer belting out the famous vocals. A digitally remastered version of William Shatner's classic original recording of the 38-word "Space, the final frontier…" monologue continues to open each episode.
The remastered episodes have been converted from the original film into a High-Definition format, which gives viewers a clearer, crisper, more vibrant picture than before, even when viewed in standard definition. Once stations upgrade and start broadcasting HD signals, the episodes will be all ready for viewers to enjoy in HD.
STAR TREK: THE ORIGINAL SERIES originally premiered on Sept. 8, 1966. Distributed by CBS Paramount Domestic Television, the series was created by Gene Roddenberry. The program stars William Shatner as Captain James T. Kirk, Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock, DeForest Kelley as Dr. "Bones" McCoy, James Doohan as Scotty, Walter Koenig as Chekov, Nichelle Nichols as Uhura and George Takei as Sulu.
The Original Series Returns To Broadcast Syndication For The First Time In 16 Years With Brand-New Digitally Remastered Episodes To Celebrate Its 40th Anniversary
Hollywood, Calif. -- STAR TREK is getting a 21st century makeover. CBS Paramount Domestic Television is releasing digitally remastered episodes of the iconic 1960s sci-fi series, with all new special effects and music, to celebrate the groundbreaking series' 40th anniversary, it was announced today by John Nogawski, president of CBS Paramount Domestic Television.
The new episodes also mark the first time in 16 years that the original STAR TREK series can be seen in broadcast syndication. The episodes will begin airing on the more than 200 stations that own the rights to the weekend broadcast syndication window starting Sept. 16 (check local listings for station and dates). All 79 episodes of the original STAR TREK series will eventually be remastered, with the first batch of episodes chosen from a list of STAR TREK fans' favorite shows.
"STAR TREK redefined science-fiction and constantly pushed the envelope with concepts that were ahead of their time," Nogawski said. "By giving the series a digital upgrade using the best technology available today, it will continue to be a leader in cutting-edge television programming as we introduce the series to a new generation of viewers."
The most noticeable change will be redoing many of the special effects, created with 1960s technology, with 21st century computer-generated imagery (CGI). That includes:
• Space ship exteriors -- The space ship Enterprise, as well as other Starships, will be replaced with state of the art CGI-created ships. The new computer-generated Enterprise is based on the exact measurements of the original model, which now rests in the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C.
• Show opening -- The Enterprise and planets seen in the main title sequence will be redone, giving them depth and dimension for the first time.
• Galaxy shots -- All the graphics of the galaxy, so frequently seen through the window on the Enterprise's bridge, will be redone.
• Exteriors -- The battle scenes, planets and ships from other cultures (notably the Romulan Bird of Prey and Klingon Battle Cruisers) will be updated.
• Background scenes -- Some of the iconic, yet flat, matte paintings used as backdrops for the strange, new worlds explored by the Enterprise crew will get a CGI face-lift, adding atmosphere and lighting.
The refurbished episodes also feature higher quality sound for the famous opening theme. The original score by Emmy Award-winning composer Alexander Courage has been re-recorded in state-of-the-art digital stereo audio with an orchestra and a female singer belting out the famous vocals. A digitally remastered version of William Shatner's classic original recording of the 38-word "Space, the final frontier…" monologue continues to open each episode.
The remastered episodes have been converted from the original film into a High-Definition format, which gives viewers a clearer, crisper, more vibrant picture than before, even when viewed in standard definition. Once stations upgrade and start broadcasting HD signals, the episodes will be all ready for viewers to enjoy in HD.
STAR TREK: THE ORIGINAL SERIES originally premiered on Sept. 8, 1966. Distributed by CBS Paramount Domestic Television, the series was created by Gene Roddenberry. The program stars William Shatner as Captain James T. Kirk, Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock, DeForest Kelley as Dr. "Bones" McCoy, James Doohan as Scotty, Walter Koenig as Chekov, Nichelle Nichols as Uhura and George Takei as Sulu.
08-31-06, 06:26 PM
#84
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Cartload
Well at least they came up with an explanation for the smooth headed Klingons in the 4th season of Enterprise. That will save them from some CGI work.
08-31-06, 06:27 PM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"digitally remastered episodes of the iconic 1960s sci-fi series, with all new special effects and music..."
It's so iconic that we're replacing much of it...
is it me...?
as Buffy would say, "Irony, much?"
It's so iconic that we're replacing much of it...
is it me...?
as Buffy would say, "Irony, much?"
08-31-06, 06:30 PM
#86
DVD Talk Legend
I will probably get flamed for this, but I think this makes sense. They going back to the film elements and upgrading them to HD. I am sure those old effects would look even worse in 1080i, and I think the CGI upgrades will help rather than hurt.
08-31-06, 07:42 PM
#87
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unlike most people in this thread I won't judge it until I see it. If its well done, I think it could be really cool. The thing about Star Wars is that most people only dislike the SE because of the few "big things" like greedo shooting first and the dance scene in Jedi. 98% of the changes in the Star Wars SE are for the better.
Check out the comparison on starwars.com , its amazing how much better the effects look, even small things like fixing clouds make it look better. I grew up on the originals and now have been watching the SEs and the new 2004 version. It was actually shocking to go back to the orginals.
Check out the comparison on starwars.com , its amazing how much better the effects look, even small things like fixing clouds make it look better. I grew up on the originals and now have been watching the SEs and the new 2004 version. It was actually shocking to go back to the orginals.
08-31-06, 07:47 PM
#88
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke
Posts: 3,921
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I read some time ago the updated Star Trek The Motion Picture's effects were only rendered at 480P. They aren't cheaping out here too are they?
08-31-06, 07:59 PM
#89
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 34,103
Received 730 Likes
on
532 Posts
Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
They shouldn't mess around with them...the reason STAR TREK: TOS holds up so well is because of the STORIES & CHARACTERS, not because of the effects. The best sci-fi has always been about people, never about technology.
08-31-06, 08:02 PM
#90
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 34,103
Received 730 Likes
on
532 Posts
Originally Posted by shaggy
Check out the comparison on starwars.com , its amazing how much better the effects look, even small things like fixing clouds make it look better. I grew up on the originals and now have been watching the SEs and the new 2004 version. It was actually shocking to go back to the orginals.
08-31-06, 11:05 PM
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montréal, Qc
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think is not just a good idea, but something very good for Star Trek.
I am a big fan of Star Trek, been watching Star Trek since I was 9, I own all the DVD sets, of the movies and of all the TV shows (excluding the Animated version).
There are two reason why I think this will be good.
1. It will give to life to Star Trek. I remember when Enterpreise got canned, alot of people said Star Trek was dead, and it needed something new to bring it to life. Well maybe giving CGI to the ST TOS would attrack other people, young people to Star Trek.
2. If this is successful, they might think of giving us all Star Trek series in HD. Now, I am not talking about new CGI, TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT, had good CGI, but only ENT was in HD. Because all of these series was made on film, this could be possible. And with Blue-Ray and HD DVD out, I know paramount will be releasing all the movies in HD.
That said, let may say one thing I dont like.....Star Trek 11. I dont think I want new caracters, or new actors playing younger caracters we know. And the idea of Spock and Kirk before Enterprise is aweful. We all know Spock met Kirk when he took over command of the enterprise. And no, they did not meet at Starfleet Academy !
I am a big fan of Star Trek, been watching Star Trek since I was 9, I own all the DVD sets, of the movies and of all the TV shows (excluding the Animated version).
There are two reason why I think this will be good.
1. It will give to life to Star Trek. I remember when Enterpreise got canned, alot of people said Star Trek was dead, and it needed something new to bring it to life. Well maybe giving CGI to the ST TOS would attrack other people, young people to Star Trek.
2. If this is successful, they might think of giving us all Star Trek series in HD. Now, I am not talking about new CGI, TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT, had good CGI, but only ENT was in HD. Because all of these series was made on film, this could be possible. And with Blue-Ray and HD DVD out, I know paramount will be releasing all the movies in HD.
That said, let may say one thing I dont like.....Star Trek 11. I dont think I want new caracters, or new actors playing younger caracters we know. And the idea of Spock and Kirk before Enterprise is aweful. We all know Spock met Kirk when he took over command of the enterprise. And no, they did not meet at Starfleet Academy !
09-01-06, 12:43 AM
#92
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look, the effects NEVER matched the quality of the stories. I, for one, would like to see some more realistic action. I'm sure Roddenbery wouldn't disagree.
The case is different with Star Wars - it never looked cheesy and it mostly didn't need to be revamped. Furthermore, some of the updated effects in Star Wars detracted from the film.
I imagine most real diehard Star Trek fans would love to see some new life pumped into this dying franchise.
The case is different with Star Wars - it never looked cheesy and it mostly didn't need to be revamped. Furthermore, some of the updated effects in Star Wars detracted from the film.
I imagine most real diehard Star Trek fans would love to see some new life pumped into this dying franchise.
09-01-06, 03:37 AM
#93
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most real diehard Star Trek fans would think changing it to be an abomination. Don't speak for "most fans" please, Wannabe. By looking at this thread alone, we can tell most fans here don't want it.
09-01-06, 05:45 AM
#95
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by emhello
I think most Trekkies would be all for this!
As long as the original broadcast episodes are made available on future home video formats, then I have no problem with the upgrades. Yes, I will be tuning in when the new "Balance of Terror" airs.
09-01-06, 07:48 AM
#96
DVD Talk Legend
I personally can't wait to see new versions of stuff like this:
also, here's a great follow up article at aint it cool news
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=24360
also, here's a great follow up article at aint it cool news
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=24360
09-01-06, 09:29 AM
#98
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Iron Chef
http://trekmovie.com/2006/08/31/trek...-test-footage/
09-01-06, 09:31 AM
#100
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by KnightLerxst
I will probably get flamed for this, but I think this makes sense. They going back to the film elements and upgrading them to HD. I am sure those old effects would look even worse in 1080i, and I think the CGI upgrades will help rather than hurt.