Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > TV Talk
Reload this Page >

Penn & Teller Bull****: "College" 5/30/05

TV Talk Talk about Shows on TV

Penn & Teller Bull****: "College" 5/30/05

Old 05-30-05, 08:59 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Penn & Teller Bull****: "College" 5/30/05

NOTE DIFFERENT TIME THAN USUAL
Showtime 9:30pm CDT (and repeated one hour later)

College degrees will lead us to future happiness, enlightenment, fun, preparation for life, a fulfilling job, as well as national prosperity. At least, that's what we've been told and sold. That's brochure bullshit! Been to a college lately? Rather than beacons of enlightenment, colleges have become bloated 400 billion dollar a year corporations, islands isolated from the real world, treacherous minefields where free speech and individual liberty often get trampled. And not only that, but going to college offers no sure path to an enriching life…or even a blue-collar job!
Next week: no show. I'm not sure if it's off for just the week or if it's taking a midseason break like last year. I'd bet on the break.
movielib is offline  
Old 05-30-05, 09:56 AM
  #2  
Moderator
 
Geofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Village Green
Posts: 39,217
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Sounds like a good one!
Geofferson is offline  
Old 05-30-05, 01:19 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The L.A.
Posts: 18,122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sounds interesting, but I don't know that statistics agree. From what I've read the average college graduate makes twice as much as the average HS graduate. And the fact that some jobs require a college education.

Does college guarantee you work? No. But I'd be willing to bet that most of those people who can't find work with a college degree owe a lot of that blame to themselves.
DodgingCars is offline  
Old 05-30-05, 01:21 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is this halfway through? If so, we won't have shows for about 6 months or whatever.

I have hopes for this episode so that I don't decide that I don't mind missing the rest.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 05-30-05, 01:43 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Is this halfway through? If so, we won't have shows for about 6 months or whatever.
...
This is the 6th episode in a presumed 13 episode season (that's what the first two were). Last year they took the break after 8. Last year they started up again in August.
movielib is offline  
Old 05-30-05, 11:09 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib
...
Next week: no show. I'm not sure if it's off for just the week or if it's taking a midseason break like last year. I'd bet on the break.
I was wrong. "Freedom" in two weeks.

Edit: Actually it's going to be called "Big Brother."

Last edited by movielib; 05-31-05 at 02:44 PM.
movielib is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 12:04 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 12,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, they flirted early on with several of points in the synopsis above, but settled in on "diversity" and speech codes vs. freedom of speech for pretty much the duration. Good idea, because the show was focused, well-paced, and, at times, powerful. This was one of the best of the year for me.
Mad Dawg is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 12:06 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree with most of their complaints, but it was all over the map and had very little to do specifically with college.

das
das Monkey is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 06:42 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I didn't like this ep at all. The free speech and diversity stuff is probably all valid, but most people still need to get college degree's to even be viable to get solid to good jobs (at least that is what I have been lead to believe). They didn't really tackle that at all. That is bullshit to me (needing a degree), but it's a fact of life now like a high school degree was 25 years ago. They also didn't touch on the book store racket or the insane costs of college (with schools holding on to the money for the future instead of spending it now). What about having to take random ass courses to become "well rounded" that have nothing to do with your major? What about the terribly pompous teachers? The flat out bad teachers? The fact that good grades are easier to get now?

The evidence they provided for people being successful without college was pretty thin too I thought. Whoopi Goldberg didn't go to college? Well shit, if only I had known that. Of course there are going to be people who excel without a degree (especially entertainers), but geez.

They started on something interesting about most people not actually finishing college, but what of those that do? A lot of people try to lose weight, most fail, but those that succeed are much better for it. Just because most fail means that nobody should try? What the hell?

Another way of proving their argument that college was a waste was to find the dumbest beer drinking brute to record. C'mon, that's just lazy. And just what did that girl do who didn't go to college that was so successful? All with the travelling and the like? She could have been a stripper for all we know.

Very let down by this. I didn't disagree with anything they said, but like das said this really didn't seem like an episode that focused on "college" at all. There is A LOT about college that is bullshit, but they didn't really focus on any of it.

Last edited by boredsilly; 05-31-05 at 06:48 AM.
boredsilly is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 09:46 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,196
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
It was a good episode but it seemed to be mislabeled. The whole diversity and free exchange of ideas that colleges promote are total bullshit. Loved Penn's rant on the fact that there is no such thing as 'the right to not be offended.' The final kick at Lord of the Rings earns a from me.

Isn't David Horowitz the guy who tried to by ads in college newspapers (and rejected by many) so he could run his "10 Reasons why Reparations are a bad idea?"
Red Dog is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 11:18 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Red Dog
It was a good episode but it seemed to be mislabeled. The whole diversity and free exchange of ideas that colleges promote are total bullshit. Loved Penn's rant on the fact that there is no such thing as 'the right to not be offended.'
I liked the diversity/leftist ideology stuff. I'm not even sure why they threw in the other crap about college. Even just as humor it was distracting and unfocused.


The final kick at Lord of the Rings earns a from me.
I was laughing but do they really hate LOTR so much? In the "Conspiracy" show they called JFK a piece of crap movie or something like that. Although as history it is total crap I love the film because I think it's brilliant cinema.


Isn't David Horowitz the guy who tried to by ads in college newspapers (and rejected by many) so he could run his "10 Reasons why Reparations are a bad idea?"
Yes. Also, during the 60s he was a big leftist radical, often called one of the founders of the New Left.
movielib is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:38 PM
  #12  
Moderator
 
Geofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Village Green
Posts: 39,217
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib
Yes. Also, during the 60s he was a big leftist radical, often called one of the founders of the New Left.
Horowitz is definitely an interesting guy. Like you said, he is a self-acknowledged former Leftist-turned conservative (listened to him as a substitute radio host earlier today as a matter of fact). For those seeking more info on his academic politics, he has some articles published on the topic at www.psaf.org
Geofferson is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:38 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I found out the next three episodes:

6/13 - "Big Brother"
6/20 - "Hair"
6/27 - "Gun Control"

I'll bet we're going to have some members who want to see "Gun Control."

Hair??
movielib is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:39 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lyon Estates
Posts: 10,795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib

Hair??
I'm guessing cure for baldness kind of stuff (along the lines of the sex one with the penis enlargement stuff)
dick_grayson is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:42 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dick_grayson
I'm guessing cure for baldness kind of stuff (along the lines of the sex one with the penis enlargement stuff)
But there are legitimate treatments for baldness now. And yes, still many quack "cures." I can't see that as a whole episode. Hmmm, what else about hair?
movielib is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:43 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lyon Estates
Posts: 10,795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib
But there are legitimate treatments for baldness now. And yes, still many quack "cures." I can't see that as a whole episode. Hmmm, what else about hair?
yeah, it does seem pretty weak. maybe waxing or grooming?
dick_grayson is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:43 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hair is bullshit!

das
das Monkey is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 02:45 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by das Monkey
Hair is bullshit!

das
Feathers are the real thing. Scales too.
movielib is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 07:26 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 75,001
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
I'm glad this episode was more about free speech than about the need for going to college. Let's face it, to have a greater chance at success in employment you need a college degree. Throw all the names of famous people who made it w/o having a college degree, and I'll show you tens of thousands who are working at dead end jobs for low pay.
Deftones is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 07:31 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by das Monkey
Hair is bullshit!

das
Indeed.

movielib is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 07:57 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
DJLinus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 8,708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Like others have said, I had totally different expectations for this episode. I thought it would concentrate on the costs, job market, etc. Still enjoyed it, though. They could easily do an hour if they focused on just the PC stuff. Wish Dan Flynn was on longer. I had an "oh, schnap!" moment when he was on. He and I worked at the same nonprofit back in DC.

The whole argument about celebrities not going to college was bullshit. The chances of being a $20 million per picture actor (or even a merely "recognizable" one) are miniscule, with or without a degree. Now if they gave names of businesspeople (other than Gates) who are successful, that'd be a better example.
DJLinus is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 09:30 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
dolphinboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,049
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree with the poster who said that an episode titled "college" probably should have been about college. Spend some time on lefty professors-fine, but it seems like Penn and Teller just spend one week attacking the right and one week attacking the left. And they just wrap things up by saying, "If you want to go to college, go to college because you want to, not because you feel like everyone else does." What a cop out. Was the episode about peer pressure or college? I loved my college experiences and I went through a partying stage and a studying phase, like most people I went to school with. I am a liberal who believes that there are a lot of liberal professors, but I can't say that any class or any professor made me more liberal or less conservative.

I think they'll do the same thing with the hair episode. There is no real scam in hair replacement. It exists. Are there scams out there outside of the surgery, yes, but most people know about it and it's not important or interesting. Except to make a comment about vanity-but the episode isn't titled vanity. I bet this episode will be just like the college one where it will focus on "if you want to have your hair back, do it because you want to, not because you feel like everyone else does." Well, duh. Like peer pressure with college, this could easily be more about self-esteem or vanity than anything else.

They don't seem to be doing a very good job this season. It seems like they've run out of bullshit ideas.
dolphinboy is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 09:57 PM
  #23  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agreed with a lot of what was said, but it should have been titled "Political Correctness" not "College." I got in quite a bit of trouble with the PC-police in my college days (the early 1990's...the height of the craze).

It was a bit intellectually dishonest for them to trot a list of names of successful people (mostly entertainers) who didn't finish college, and present them as the "norm" for non-college grads. Fact is, across the board, people who finish college make more money than people who don't.
Groucho is offline  
Old 05-31-05, 10:48 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No Showtime for me, so I didn't see it...I'll catch up on DVD. But I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents...

I definitely agree with what most of you have said - going to college is almost always the way to go, and giving celebs as examples of non-college success stories is stupid.

But I think there are a couple good reasons for somebody not to go to college...again, I don't know if these were mentioned.

First, if somebody really has their head on straight soon after HS. Much of college is finding yourself, and while the degree is quite necessary to work in the corporate world nowadays, that's just not the case if you know EXACTLY what you want to do. Of course, most people don't know exactly what they want to do with their lives, and college gives you a chance to figure it out plus most likely increase your earning power when you graduate.

But I have a few friends who knew just what they wanted to do even before graduating HS...we're all 22 now, and 2 of the friends have houses that are worth at least $400,000 (which is pretty damn nice in southern Wisconsin...and no, they aren't just in debt up to their eyeballs, they make a very good living), one of those is married with a 2 year old, and the 3rd friend has a sweet apartment in SanFran (yeah, how's a farmer from Wisconsin end up in SF? You tell me...) and has a top sales job. People like these guys, while in the minority (probably 1/2% of all HS grads?), I don't think have anything to gain in college.

My other reason is that I think it's just become too "normal" to go to college. My brother just graduated, class of 190, I think over 120 are going to college. I'm pretty sure in most parts of the country, there is a high demand for skilled laborers...plumbers, electricians, HVAC installers, whatever...yet many college grads complain they can't find work. Those in the skilled trades can easily be making $20 an hour or more by the time they're 20 years old around here. That's decent money when the cost of living is fairly low. Most college grads around here don't make that their first few years after graduation. We need more people who just do tech school for a year or two and join the workforce.

Of course college educations are good for a lot of people...even most people. But in recent years waaayyy too much emphasis has been put on going to college. Some of the people who are better off working straight out of HS are kind of being pressured into doing the college thing...I'm sure it turns out better in some cases, but it's still over-emphasized in general.

Oh, and me? I'm one of those college-going schleps .
aktick is offline  
Old 06-01-05, 12:24 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,626
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
One of their non-college people was Abraham Lincoln, who found success as a lawyer. Sure, you didn't need a college education to become a lawyer in the 1830s, but try doing that today.
JasonF is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.