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Penn & Teller Bull****: "Holier Than Thou" 5/23/05

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Penn & Teller Bull****: "Holier Than Thou" 5/23/05

Old 05-23-05, 08:52 AM
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Penn & Teller Bull****: "Holier Than Thou" 5/23/05

Showtime, 9:00pm CDT (repeated one hour later)

To most of the world, highly revered figures such as Mother Theresa, Mahatma Gandhi and the Dalai Lama are larger-than-life symbols of love, peace and charity. But how much of our perception of "sainthood" is built on hype and not facts? This episode reveals the dark side of the so-called enlightened ones and delves into why we're so susceptible to buying into their bullshit.
Old 05-23-05, 11:18 AM
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So I take it they're going to do a Christopher Hitchens hatchet-job on Mother Theresa? (I've read his book on her, and it's very damning.)

And Ghandi was kind of an asshole, too.

Not too sure about the Dalai Lama; haven't really read anything bad about him.
Old 05-23-05, 11:36 AM
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This should be interesting....for once. Part of me wonders if they are going after the person or after the people that shaped their image. Either way, it should be good. At the same time, it should surprise anyone to find out that people are pretty much just like all the other people.
Old 05-23-05, 11:45 AM
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I heard the Dalai Lama fights dirty (hair-pulling, kick in the nuts, etc).
Old 05-23-05, 12:00 PM
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Just from the title, I expected some more Christian-bashing (one of the few areas where I disagree with this show). At least with this episode they're going to be equal-opportunity religion bashers.
Old 05-23-05, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
I heard the Dalai Lama fights dirty (hair-pulling, kick in the nuts, etc).
"Big hitter, the Lama."
Old 05-24-05, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by stevevt
"Big hitter, the Lama."

Old 05-24-05, 12:30 AM
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I thought it was the best episode of the season so far. Mother Theresa deserved all the shit they unloaded on her and I liked seeing that super asshole Bill Donahue get the treatment. I thought they were fair about Gandhi (and they acknowledged all the good he did) and the Dalai Lama. I saw the Dalai Lama in person once and he rambled some sort of mystical softheaded bullshit for hours and people were just eating it up. I didn't hate him, I just couldn't see what people saw in him or believe they had any more idea than I did about what the hell he was talking about. I didn't know his regime had been as oppressive as it was. Whether it's the Dalai Lama or the Chinese ruling them, the Tibetan people get a raw deal.

I especially liked that they didn't try to hit more than those three (well, and the Clay-worshippers) and the show had focus and was not so overbroad as it often is. I didn't mind that they got in a few extra little gratuitous digs at religion in general and Christianity in particular.
Old 05-24-05, 10:43 AM
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I really liked this one. Never heard any of these stories, so they were quite illuminating. I loved the good/evil prop they used.

at the guy sucking down the smokes and scotch while interviewed.
Old 05-24-05, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
at the guy sucking down the smokes and scotch while interviewed.
That guy is Christopher Hitchens, a brilliantly cranky contrarian of a sort that used to be an American mainstay (these days, we apparently have to import 'em from the UK). At any rate, IMO, Hitchens musings are always worth reading. Here are a couple written for slate:

On Theresa: http://slate.msn.com/id/2090083/

On Michael Moore: http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
Old 05-24-05, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
I really liked this one. Never heard any of these stories, so they were quite illuminating. I loved the good/evil prop they used.

at the guy sucking down the smokes and scotch while interviewed.

same here


one of the best I've seen
Old 05-24-05, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
I didn't mind that they got in a few extra little gratuitous digs at religion in general and Christianity in particular.
It's a little predictable and old for me, personally. Especially given the fact that their show on the OT was one of the more boring and poorly done (perhaps they tried to be "too" unbiased, but both guests were poor, nor really disagreed).
Old 05-24-05, 04:18 PM
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For my money, there aren't nearly enough "digs" at Christianity and religion in general. In this age of creeping medievalism and bounding superstition (I understand their refighting the Scopes Monkey Trial in Kansas), there need to be a few more voices calling "bullshit" on the bullshit.

And there ain't no more rank bullshit than organized religion.
Old 05-24-05, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Malloy
(I understand their refighting the Scopes Monkey Trial in Kansas),
Perhpas they should do a show on how English is taught.
Old 05-24-05, 08:18 PM
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Good episode. I hadn't heard of any of that. I thought that the "mystery guru" was going to be Dr. Phil.
Old 05-24-05, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Perhpas they should do a show on how English is taught.
Or on people who insult other people for having an opinion that they don't agree with.
Old 05-24-05, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Or on people who insult other people for having an opinion that they don't agree with.
Now, now kids, let's not fight . I'm a God-loving Christian, and I have absolutely no problem with anybody who believes I'm a whacko because of it, and don't think they're whackos for not believing. We all know what they say opinions are like .
Old 05-24-05, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Perhpas they should do a show on how English is taught.
#1 rule when criticizing grammar or spelling: don't make a mistake yourself.

You know I love you, Dave.
Old 05-24-05, 11:46 PM
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I'm a little surprised some of you haven't heard the stories about Mother Theresa and Gandhi. I've read those things about the nun more than once. And all that stuff about Gandhi's negative side was widely publicized when the movie was out and was being accused of sanitizing his life. Of course, all you kids here were probably too young to have picked up on that in 1982. Or you weren't even born.

I hadn't really heard the negative stuff about the Dalai Lama though.
Old 05-25-05, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Or on people who insult other people for having an opinion that they don't agree with.


I guess I didn't think that was an insult. Just a good natured jab.
Old 05-25-05, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by movielib
I'm a little surprised some of you haven't heard the stories about Mother Theresa and Gandhi. I've read those things about the nun more than once. And all that stuff about Gandhi's negative side was widely publicized when the movie was out and was being accused of sanitizing his life. Of course, all you kids here were probably too young to have picked up on that in 1982. Or you weren't even born.

I hadn't really heard the negative stuff about the Dalai Lama though.

I guess I didn't see the deleted scenes on the Gandhi Special Edition DVD.
Old 05-25-05, 09:47 AM
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movielib

I thought it was the best episode of the season so far.
No surprise there. I, also probably predictably, thought it was pretty weak. Then again, I knew most everything they talked about already and have never once considered any of these people as "holy", so perhaps that's part of it. I've often defended religion as a concept on this forum, particularly belief in a power beyond that which we can fully comprehend, but if you think Mother Theresa came back from the dead to heal people, you need help (unless you're a member of DVD Talk, in which case, I'm only kidding).

It just seemed a waste and a bit petty. Humans are fallible. Woo. I guess if you believe that these three people were beyond human fallibility, then perhaps it would have had more impact, but I honestly don't know too many people who think that way. The whole episode just seemed boring and pointless. You could do the same thing for any popular religious, political, or social figure, but what would it prove? Oh well.

One thing I couldn't help thinking when they were presenting all the "scholars" who had written negative books about the subject matter: these are the same types of authors P&T would crucify (pun intended) if they didn't agree with the opinion, but since they agreed with it, they took everything that was said *ahem* on faith. (Not that any of it's inaccurate, but I just couldn't help thinking that watching this episode)

das
Old 05-25-05, 10:28 AM
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Gandhi was a notoriously bad tipper.
Old 05-25-05, 10:34 AM
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Gandhi used to work in a gas station.
Old 05-25-05, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by das Monkey
but if you think Mother Theresa came back from the dead to heal people, you need help (unless you're a member of DVD Talk, in which case, I'm only kidding).


Spoken like an Otter President.

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