:sad:

My wife will be upset. I for one and happy the Wire made it.

I was planning on picking this up to fill in the missing shows. Oh well....no point now. I hate the lack of closure.

Hopefully deadwood will survive for several more seasons.

Knauf has said that that will not happen, the way the show is laid up is for 6 seasons. He gave hbo the choice between 6 and 3 they chose 6 (go figure). So there is no way he could cram 36 hours down to 2 or 4. He also said that this show might be like star trek and get picked up at a later point in time.

And comparing it to buffy/angel who like you said has had 10 seasons is not a good comparison. And there is a diffrence between a premium chanel and addvertisment paid channels. And when hbo does this who is to say they won't do it again in the near future.

OK, that bites. I don't subscribe to hbo because I'd rather have the shows on dvd, but now I won't be getting Carnivale (which I have been really wanting) since there's no closure. If it was set up for either a 3 year story arc or a 6 year story arc (a la Babylon 5 with its 5 year arc) and HBO CHOSE the 6 year plan, then cancelled it after only 2 years, that's a huge slap in the face to the fans. We count on being able to see the end of shows we care about, and knowing a show has a beginning, middle and end that is pre-planned, agreed to ahead of time by the network, and has begun to be executed, then having it yanked out from under us...that's all kinds of wrong.

And I do expect more from a paid subscription venue than from broadcast tv which is at the mercy of just a few nielsen families. HBO can send surveys/have online surveys/etc. to all its subscribers to find out why they have hbo, what shows they like, what shows they want to watch but haven't started yet for whatever reason, etc. That way people could tell them they are waiting to see if all seasons will be produced before committing to the show, or waiting to buy it on dvd, or waiting for hbo to re-air it in order from the beginning at convenient times, etc. Subscription channels shouldn't be subject to the whim of first run nielsen numbers - if I think it's worth it to pay for hbo for 3 shows I want to see, but the times that are convenient to watch and/or record (due to timeslot conflicts) mean that I am watching/recording the re-runs of the show, who cares? I am still paying for the subscription for those shows alone, regardless of what airing I choose to watch.

I also think people would be more willing to allow the monitoring of what shows they really watch if they could opt out on a show by show basis - monitoring the viewing of some of the soft-core shows might be embarrassing for a lot of folks, but they wouldn't care if hbo tracked their viewing of carnivale, deadwood, 6 feet under, etc. That way hbo could truly see if people are watching the show or not instead of relying on poorly designed systems like nielsen.

I think you may have the wrong impression. While there's a 6-year plan, it's 3 2-year stories. Seasons 1 and 2 <i>do</i> form a coherent and near-complete story unto themselves. This is a very poor analogy, but it's not unlike the <b>Star Wars</b> franchise. There may be 9 films in concept, but taken as 3 trilogies, they stand mostly on their own. Granted, <i>Carnivale</i> is likely closer to how I'd expect <b>Sith</b> to end than <b>Jedi</b> in that everything is not tied up into a neat bow, but these two seasons do provide a beginning, middle, and end; there just happens to be a larger plan that won't come to fruition. This is profoundly frustrating, but it's not something like <i>Crusade</i> or <i>Firefly</i> or <i>John Doe</i>.

das

And the whole three two year plans is good for us, becuase season three should have taken place 4 years into the future. And that does mean that hbo has four years to redeem themself, and the actors would not have gotten to old (unless someone dies) And like i have said before, knauf hopes that the show might be like star trek and get picked up at a later stage in time.

Btw, while the show is almost certainly gone, you can always contact HBO by phone, as they're one of the few places that publically lists a viewer feedback line that is <i>not</i> an answering machine:
das

Well, I don't live in USA, so I cannot unsubscribe from HBO anyway. And if I could I wouldn't - they kept the WIRE on air, groundbreaking, non-pretty TV which deals with questions that our politics would rather we not ask, this is maybe the best show on TV with VERY low ratings, yet they kept if for quality sake.

Sad to see Carnivale go, but many critics were meh on this show and ratings were low. HBO gave us so many great shows, and after keeping The Wire on air they get the free pass from me.

Not sure if this means anything but I just called the number Das posted and got a surprisng response....I told the woman I was concerned because I have been hearing rumors that HBO would not be picking up Carnivale for a third season. The woman reponded by saying that this is completely untrue and that this show was one of their "pride and joys". She continued on saying that the show has been getting good ratings and that they are getting set to produce season number three, all the while adamantly denying the cancellation.

Hmmm...very interesting. Ok, so I don't believe this woman at all and the cynical side of me is thinking that they have been coached in how to answer these phone calls at this point, but it was surprising nonetheless.

^^ Have you seen the show? The show won more emmys (emmys are for tv right) for it's first season than the sopranos did.

I would not mind it if she was right. But i doubt she is. But it is nice that they are calling it it's "pride and joy" and that it has been getting "good ratings" But still get canceled

Well, I just called the number that das Monkey posted and the drone who answered the phone said that she had no idea where these rumors were coming from, but that HBO was pleased with the way Carnivale was performing and that it would be back for a third season. So obviously, you never know what the front-line person who is answering the phone knows and does not know, but hopefully she had accurate information and it will be coming back.

:banana:

Edit: Looks like dave-o had the same idea I did.

Fingers crossed, maybe clancy brown is playing some sick joke on us. But i guess we will find out soon enough.

Ooooohhhhh. OK, then I agree - it still really sucks, but it's not the huge slap in the face that I thought it was. Would you recommend that I buy them or rent them? (in other words, I think it's probably still worth watching, but what's the replay value since there is no overall story completion?)

I'm just going to hold on to the show until I see something official. I really hope it makes the cut. it is the only thing I really watch on cable anymore.

I have watched season 1 nearly five times so there is replay value there, and even if it is cancelled it is still a great show. While it lasted, and i would recomend you buy it.

So we have an unimpeachable source's words versus that of a couple random HBO CSR's. I won't believe anything until I hear confirmation from Brother Justin or Ben Hawkins themselves! ;)

I am assuming that this was meant for the poster above my last one....right?

yes it was.

Acording to one of the moderators over at carnycon chat there is no truth in what the lady at the phone is saying. The show has gotten the can.

I can be totally wrong on this one, but IIRC Carnivale got mostly technical awards, this sort of stuff. I don't think that HBO really cares much about Emmies like that - they want "Best TV show" sort of nominations. I can be wrong of course. A lot of online critics were very cold about the show - beautifully shot, but slow paced, lacking, etc. I think critics coldness ultimately killed the show. Network mostly care about ratings, HBO cares more about critics. When I was searching for reviews on Carnivale I mostly got lukewarm ones, many critics seemed to be dissappointed with the show's writing, etc.

Of course I hope it stays on air, but I cannot blame HBO, and wouldn't give up on the best damned channel in USA. The show was nice but not The Wire or Arrested Development.

Already cancel my HBO when Carnivale stop screening. Guess my $12 bucks a month did not make a dent at HBO.......:D

We're still awaiting an official word one way or the other.

It's like Schrödinger's cat.

While it isn't strange that a company rep would deny cancellation before it's officially announced -- especially by claiming that the network considers it a crown jewel and is satisfied with the ratings, it does seem strange that the rep would claim they're preparing a third season if in fact they aren't. (Unless that's just a general reply they use while a decision is being made about renewal.)

If the "unimpeachable source" is Clancy Brown, I suppose it's possible that there's some miscommunication somewhere. Maybe it was just him that was released from the series (very possible when one considers the events of the second season finale) and it somehow got to him that the series was cancelled?

I find it interesting that these people who answer the phone are so adamant about the show not being cancelled. Not because I believe them, but because it makes me wonder. If they truly don't know they should just say that they have no information on this topic. However, if they are being instructed to answer the way they are (and this seems highly likely based on my conversation with them) then that is just an extra slap in the face to us fans.

It was not only clancy brown it was also Debra Christofferson, Brian Turk and one of the executive producers (don't remeber the name) But they did all break the NDA.

I have no idea what's going on with the show, but the people answering the phones will be the <i>last</i> to know anything. They'll find out when an official press statement is released, and likely not a moment before.

<b>WarriorPrincess</b>, it's definitely worth your time to watch. As for buying vs. renting, that really depends on you, but if you can't get a good deal on the set, renting may be reasonable. Personally, I would buy it, and I gave the first season a "Highly Recommended" review, but it really depends on your finances and propensity for rewatching shows.

das

It it comes to it, I hope at least they do a movie or something that can wrap up some of the loose ends. I love this show.

LOS ANGELES, California (Hollywood Reporter) -- HBO has pulled up stakes on "Carnivale," opting not to order a third season of the circus-set Dust Bowl drama.

Prospects for a "Carnivale" renewal have appeared bleak since the sophomore season wrapped in March; the show didn't increase its viewership, and series creator/executive producer Daniel Knauf already signed on to produce a series for the rival Showtime cable channel.

"We have decided not to renew 'Carnivale,' " said Carolyn Strauss, president of entertainment at HBO, in a statement. "We feel the two seasons we had on the air told the story very well and we are proud of what everyone associated with the show has accomplished."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/0...eut/index.html

Well it's official. Time to move on...

:mad:

Arggghh!:sad:

I called the number and they sure are singing a different tune today!

"Yes it has been cancelled"
"It was my favorite show too"
"A lot of people have been calling today"

All said in a very sad and mournful tone...must have got that new response sheet in today.

Well, at least now I can put my money towards Stars Network and watch some good movies for a change.


Have I said argghhh yet?

:sad:

Fuckers

Son of a BITCH!

:wtf:
Were they watching the same show?

I watch Carnivale, Deadwood and SFU on HBO, and two out of three of these won't be back next year. Not sure if HBO will be worth it anymore :( .

I am also sorry they cancelled this nice show. But I am very thankful they made this show in first place. Let's give HBO some credit. They are the best in bringing quality television. Almost everything they make is great. I am a huge fan of a lot of their series (The Wire, SFU, Sopranos, Curb, Deadwood, enz) I am also very happy they renewed 'The Wire'. My favourite show right now. Give them a brake and enjoy what they give us. I am sure the next great show is right around the corner.

I don't think i want to give credit to a company in which it does things half way.
If you start something, make sure you finish it.

Well, it's not as if they cancelled it mid-season. Carnivale had a begining, a middle, and an end. True, it was not the whole story Knaupf wanted to tell, but I think HBO was fair to this show.

Make no mistake, I'm very disappointed we won't be getting the whole story, but I think we got enough of a story to justify having watched it for two seasons.

Demanding they give 6 seasons of a series before starting day one of production is ridiculously unreasonable. If they did that, there never would have been any episodes of this show, since not even a high-standard network like HBO would do something that insane. How about you give them credit for finishing the two-season story when it was clear that no one watched the first?

This isn't a Sci-Fi situation where they contracted for two seasons and then sabotaged the show to get out of the deal after the creators developed a two-season arc. And this isn't a Fox situation where episodes were aired out of order in scattered timeslots and cancelled before the show had any chance to make sense.

I love this series and am incredibly disappointed it won't return, but HBO gave it a fair shake. Frankly, I was shocked it even got a second season. No one but HBO would have done that.

das

Nope, still aint giving them credit. Still bloody pissed at them.
I still don't have closure to the story. At least print a book or something.

I cancelled my HBO this morning, told them it was becasue of this. And the Comcast people said why didn't I wait and see whta they come up with next. Yeah, so they can just cancel it, no thanks.