Yeah, I wonder if offers an extra service for that healthy man love on the side?

I just got around to watching this. Fun stuff.

I think the point of the animal stuff wasn't to say "Animals aren't monogamous, so we shouldn't be either." It was to day "Animals aren't monogamous, so anyone who tells you that monogamy is the 'natural order' is feeding you bullshit."

Just got around to watching this... I got in the habit of watching the show on Thursdays last season, plan on sticking with that regardless of when it's scheduled.

I sometimes disagree with Penn & Teller, but never as much as I did this episode. I don't mind the gay marriage, and I'm fine with gay couples having children. But the bullshit about marriage and polygamy was just that, bullshit. And if a gay person wants to be straight, then they have that right so long as they aren't being forced to. A lot of people are bisexual, and perhaps they are just bisexuals who haven't explored the other side of the fence and want to.

The idiot they had that said that no one should get married and marriage is just an economic deal that's bad for men... Give me a break. They said it themselves. This moron was married four times and 90% of his paycheck is probably going to ex-wives. Penn & Teller did a huge disservice to their credibility by having this guy on and not going off on him. Just because this guy got screwed over because he couldn't find a compatible woman doesn't exactly make him a legit, scientific source.

And the polygamy... God, don't get me started. There is no way it doesn't have an effect on children, and don't say because a bunch of damn chimps screw anything that moves that we aren't any higher on the chain and that monogamy is unnatural. Fine, some people might be able to handle the fact that their wife/husband sleeps with other people. A vast majority can't. Don't say chimps provide a legitimate argument that a vast majority of humans are wrong.

This episode, aside from the gay stuff, treated things that are very personal and based on an individual as if they were wrong because Penn & Teller have science behind them! That's the same way as saying that because a man is born attracted to other men instead of women, they are wrong. If I was born feeling I only wanted one woman to spend my life with me and that I felt marriage was an expression of love and commitment... People that feel that way, who also happen to be in the vast majority, have as much right and legitimacy in their thoughts as homosexuals. Sometimes this show goes too far out on a limb, and for most of this episode they were barely standing on a leaf.

Tom Leykis is a radio personality on the level of Howard Stern.
http://blowmeuptom.com/

He fully admits to getting married four times on his radio show and the way he sees it, what better why of learning things other than listening to someone who has made every mistake in the book except having childern. As for Vaginamony, he has prenups. Also, his views on marriage is that you shouldn't have a relationship if you are under 25 and he says it on his radio show all the time that you should not get married till you achieve your dream since a relationship can and often is a dream killer for males. Whatever age that be. But should not be in a relationship or even consider marriage before age 25.

As for the benefits of marriage for a male.... can you list them? The sad truth is that the legal system in america sides with the females in just about any situation from child custudy to property.

I would suggest listening in at the very least
http://www.radiohottalk.com/radiohottalk/leykis/

This episode was a bit of a disappointment that turned into a full thumbs down after seeing Leykis. I have never ever liked his show for the brief time I remember it being on here, and found him one of the most grating and irritating people I had the misfortune to listen to.

No, I don't think gay/straight is a black & white issue. (I myself don't fit in either category). I'd just like to see an example of someone who determined that they were gay (by being attracted to the same sex), then decided that they didn't want to be that way for reasons other than what I listed before. I just don't think it's a common event. Most people go the other way because they are trying to fool themselves. They try to be "normal" and hide or supress the fact that they are gay, when that's really who they are. Those people are more likely to try to be "cured", in my mind, than someone who has comes to terms or accepted being gay, and then decides that they don't like it or don't want to be that way. It kind of seems to me to be like "I don't want to be white" or "I don't want to be short". I don't know. I understand people who want to change who they are to BE who they truly are. I just have a hard time with the idea of trying to "cure" gayness. That's the only one that's referred to as a CURE. You don't cure your straightness when you come out of the closet. You don't cure your male-ness if you have a sex change. You can't cure being black or being tall. So why is this change from gay to straight referred to by this guy as a CURE?

I agree. Monogomy is a fairly recent deal, and much of what is practiced today around the world is not monogomy.

I wish I could cure my shortness. :(

The guy who wants to cure gay men reminded me of a great Mr. Show skit from the first season, where this Christian talk show has a guest who is in charge of a group called "Overcome" ( ;) ), that cures gay men. There's a transcript here: http://www.unoriginal.com/mrshow/1_2.html#goodnews

It perfectly sums up the fallacy that you can cure homosexuality.

RRREALLY!!!

That would make for a very good episode. "Curing Homosexuality:

Personally, I don't think it is something "to be" cured, or that it can be, but I would sure enjoy seeing some actual science behind it. Part of me tends to think that there is a force that says that it can't be cured becuase it is wrong to look at it as a disease (meaning, something that needs curing), and it is very un PC to push for something like that. But hell, I have no idea. I would really like to know more about it. Seems like a great show to do, doesn't it?

Yes, it does. I think the big issue is that most of these groups made to "cure" homosexuality are religious in nature, and that their goal is simply to mind control people into thinking that their homosexuality is false, a sin, etc. Even the guy on the show, who says he only helps people that want it, doesn't mention that the reason they want it is probably because of societal or familial pressure. I've yet to hear of any cases of a gay man who just earnestly wants to be straight, even though he's utterly accepted by everyone as gay.

It's like Julien in The Shield. No matter how hard he tries to be straight, at the end of the day, he's still jerking off to the magazine with the nude men.