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iggystar 02-24-05 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by Darq
I understand that some (most?) people don't like the "scheming" aspect, but for others, scheming equals strategy.

Whether the contestants like it or not, it's a contest/competition/game. You do what is necessary to win -- otherwise, why are you there? However, i do admit that in SOME contests, dishonesty/lying may not be necessary. But there's nothing wrong with a good strategy.

I never said Project Runway wasn't a reality show. However, all reality shows are not the same. PR is one that didn't require the same amount of strategy and conniving that on other shows is a necessity. I believe that's what bothers people the most.

Would you expect one of the contestants on The Apprentice to use the "my grandmother just died" bit that Johnny Fairplay used on Survivor? I mean there is an amount of back biting and game playing on The Apprentice, but using tactics that just don't work in such a setting is just annoying.

Wendy specifically stated she would use her role as a mother to gain an advantage (among other statements). What? Would someone purposely rip a bodice to lose a challenge because she mentions her daughter got the whooping cough and misses her Mommy? No, so why even go there. Many of her ploys simply took the focus of the show off of the talent (or lack thereof) and the demands of the challenges (which they had very little time to complete). She wasted time on her devising that she should have used on making better clothes.

I could see if she even curried favor so that someone would help her. But she just used this bitch factor that turned off so many.

And you won't find a Kara fan that will defend her in the "shoe-gate". She was wrong. However, her talent spoke for itself and her professionalism as well (up to that point).

If you want to make yourself an enemy don't be so shocked when others view you as one.

Darq 02-24-05 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by iggystar
I never said Project Runway wasn't a reality show. However, all reality shows are not the same. PR is one that didn't require the same amount of strategy and conniving that on other shows is a necessity. I believe that's what bothers people the most.

Would you expect one of the contestants on The Apprentice to use the "my grandmother just died" bit that Johnny Fairplay used on Survivor? I mean there is an amount of back biting and game playing on The Apprentice, but using tactics that just don't work in such a setting is just annoying.

I didn't mean to state that you didn't think PR wasn't a reality show. I meant that it seemed that some of the contestants didn't think so.

In any case, no, i wouldn't expect the grandmother bit to work on the Apprentice. But if you think about it, most of the tactics that you WOULD use on the Apprentice would also apply to PR. You try to make yourself look good and make your opponents look bad -- all in front of the judges.

iggystar 02-25-05 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by Darq
In any case, no, i wouldn't expect the grandmother bit to work on the Apprentice. But if you think about it, most of the tactics that you WOULD use on the Apprentice would also apply to PR. You try to make yourself look good and make your opponents look bad -- all in front of the judges.


I would agree that a few of the tactics used in The Apprentice would translate to Runway, but for the most part most of this was still useless, therefore causing Wendy to be just irritating.

There were only two group challenges where the designers could benefit from making the others look bad. In the first group challenge Wendy made her partner Austin look like a bad leader. At that time, while I disagreed with her assessment, it was completely appropriate because everyone was asked to comment about the weakest member of the group. So her strategy was fine at that time, especially since Vanessa shot herself in the foot by naming herself as a poor sewer instead of getting some balls and picking someone else. Bad idea, she was eliminated.

The second time was the 2055 futuristic challenge. Sure Wendy pointed fingers at Keven for being a poor leader, yada, yada - making him look bad, etc. Again, didn't agree with what she said, but fine. However, it was Kevin's outfit (which didn't match the others when it was supposed to be a matching collection) that got him booted not much as her back biting.

Wendy had inconsistent, mediocre talent. Enough to get her past to the subsequent rounds. But for the most part when she wasn't chosen to get cut it was because one of the other designers made a glaring error in design choice, or in the final challenge someone actually chose her design (there was no one else to eliminate). So still these tactics were pretty much worthless which is why many disliked Wendy. She didn't have the sense to figure out that she should have spent time trying to at least copy another designers idea (heck, that I could understand).

The outfits spoke for themselves and the judges didn't use the other designers input in their decision to eliminate. This is still another animal than the other reality shows.

fnordboy 02-25-05 12:10 PM

I can't believe I missed this thread all these months. :eek:

This was hands down the best reality show ever on TV. I was sooo hooked on this show it was ridiculous. I liked a lot of the people on it and it was absolutely hilarious at times and extremely infuriating at others.

Most of the people who got kicked off deserved it, a few didn't IMO. Kevin, while a little bit of a schemer, should not have gotten kicked off when he did. Wendy should have gone that day. She was a lackluster designer at best and that outfit was one of her worst. Unfortunately I think the judges/producers kept certain people on too long just because of their personalities and what they could bring to the show (humor/drama/etc.), Robert and Wendy were perfect examples.

I was very glad to see Jay win. He was definitely who I was rooting for almost the whole series. I really liked Kara Saun's designs in the show, but I didn't care for her final runway show at all. Plus her attitude and the whole shoe thing really ruined my image of her. Jay, I think, was true to himself the whole show and really played fairly and used only his talent to get by. I wish it would have been an Austin, Jay, Kara Saun finale, but I guess it was worth seeing Wendy in the end for the 2 hour bitchfest that was the finale. Atleast Austin did get to show at Fashion Week, I wish they would brought that up on the show though. I am so glad that I ordered one of Jay's cuffs that they were selling on the Project Runway site for my girlfriend before they took them down. We should soon have an original Jay McCarroll design in the apt. :)

Any idea of if this will be released on DVD? I know it did great ratings wise so I am assuming it will. I already recorded and burned the series just in case they don't, but I would like to buy an official release (w/ extras!).

Timber 02-25-05 12:29 PM

I was slightly turned off by Kara over the shoe thing but I still thought she had the best collection. Jay was my favorite character on the show so I was happy to see him win. I still can't stand WEndy no matter how much they tried to make you feel sorry for her on the final show (it actually worked on my wife who went in hating Wendy and liking Kara but came out with the opposite feeling)

Darq 02-25-05 12:30 PM

Iggy - I agree with you regarding Wendy's talent. Looking at the past episodes (and as clearly seen in the finale), Wendy wasn't at the same level of Kara and Jay. I'm completely fine with Jay winning. The only reason i was rooting for Wendy at some points were because i was fuming at Kara (who we were rooting for the day before the finale aired).

In any case, my point earlier was that it seemed like the other contestants were overly pissed at someone playing a more strategic game than them, and even then, what she did wasn't as "evil" as they were making it seem. It's not Wendy's fault that there was a bigger goof by someone else every week.

Jonny2k1 02-25-05 12:38 PM

I only caught the last four episodes (or something like that) but I instantly becamed hooked. There was just something about this show that was really interesting to me. I was glad that Kara Saun didn't win - she seemed like a self-righteous bitch. Wendy was indeed a bitch, but at least she admitted her faults. I didn't think she had the talent to win, and I was very happy to see Jay win. I think he deserved it more than the other two. Unfortunately I didn't get to see any of the other designers, except for Austin so I don't know what they had to offer.

iggystar 02-25-05 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by Darq
In any case, my point earlier was that it seemed like the other contestants were overly pissed at someone playing a more strategic game than them, and even then, what she did wasn't as "evil" as they were making it seem. It's not Wendy's fault that there was a bigger goof by someone else every week.

Hmmm, she played the game with unnecessary strategy, got on everyone's nerves, created drama when none existed so she's a saint? I think the cast was calling her out for her actions, period. They didn't like her. Some of the designers even befriended her, so yeah, they were pissed. If being a bitch gets you ahead, that's one thing. Being a bitch just to be one...makes you a bitch. So since she's just this rural wife and mom who played a more strategic game then I'll call her not-so-bright for using strategies that had no use in the challenges at hand.

Just like Kara. I am a big Kara fan. I loved her designs. But I'm not going to sit and defend her and the shoe situation. It turned many people off. I'm not going to reason why someone should still like her when her actions were really low-class and sneaky. She will be held accountable in the court of public opinion for what she did as will Wendy.

However, in the end Jay's collection was stronger and I'm glad he won. His show-ending fushia dress was soooooo beautiful I've been having dreams about it. Unlike the judges I loved his use of color (I'm a matchy type of girl). And what a funny character.

Darq 02-25-05 02:32 PM

I never called her a saint. But the real question is why are you so arguing so passionately about this? I didn't intend for my last post to be antagonistic at all.

iggystar 02-25-05 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by Darq
I never called her a saint. But the real question is why are you so arguing so passionately about this? I didn't intend for my last post to be antagonistic at all.

This is a forum for discussion and debate. You keep posting, with me quoted, therefore I keep responding. You can always end the discussion by not responding to my posts. I didn't think you're being antagonistic, however, I think you're wrong and feel it's my right to say so. Nothing more. If it's simply a matter that you want the last word, just say so.

Darq 02-25-05 03:44 PM

I feel we've both stated our sides clearly.

iggystar 02-25-05 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by Darq
I feel we've both stated our sides clearly.

Agreed. And that is the last word (I don't mind saying so).

iggystar 02-25-05 04:08 PM


Originally Posted by fnordboy
I can't believe I missed this thread all these months. :eek:

This was hands down the best reality show ever on TV. I was sooo hooked on this show it was ridiculous. I liked a lot of the people on it and it was absolutely hilarious at times and extremely infuriating at others.

I am so glad that I ordered one of Jay's cuffs that they were selling on the Project Runway site for my girlfriend before they took them down.

Exactly, I watched from beginning to end. Hopefully they'll get the kinks out of the judging for next season. Some of those guest judges...especially Nancy O'Dell, threw things off.

Did you check out the "Tim's Take" section on the Runway site? He gave some really good opinions of each designers and their designs.

And what's this cuff you're talking about? I didn't get to check out the merchandise.

fnordboy 02-25-05 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by iggystar
Exactly, I watched from beginning to end. Hopefully they'll get the kinks out of the judging for next season. Some of those guest judges...especially Nancy O'Dell, threw things off.

Did you check out the "Tim's Take" section on the Runway site? He gave some really good opinions of each designers and their designs.

And what's this cuff you're talking about? I didn't get to check out the merchandise.

Nancy O'Dell screwed the show badly. The Judges were obviously going to drop Wendy then but once blind as a bat O'Dell picked Wendy's we were all screwed. I loved the looks on the faces of Micheal Kors and Nina Garcia when she chose Wendy's :lol:.

I didn't read any of Tim's Take yet, but my girlfriend did and told me about it. Seemed really interesting, I should really get around to reading it. For a laugh you should check out Wendy Pepper's site, she did a running commentary for each episode on there.

Jay had these wide fabric bracelets for sale on the Project Runway site. You chose a style (camo, floral, or stripes) and he would make one in that style. They were dirt cheap, only $25 each. So I ordered one. The next Monday after Fashion Week they mysteriously disappeared from the site. I am thinking because he got too many orders and couldn't meet the demand (especially after he won). I don't know. Hopefully it should arrive in about 2 weeks so I will try to remember to take a pic and post it here.

Buford T Pusser 02-25-05 05:27 PM

I'll have to check out the Tim's Take and Wendy reading.

direct links?



It was a bit annoying with Wendy wearing a t-shirt and hat with her likeness and name.

fnordboy 02-25-05 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by Buford T Pusser
I'll have to check out the Tim's Take and Wendy reading.

direct links?



It was a bit annoying with Wendy wearing a t-shirt and hat with her likeness and name.

Wendy:
http://www.wendypepper.com/episode_1.cfm

Tim's Take:
http://www.bravotv.com/Project_Runwa...1.shtml#rw_top

Also, didn't notice before, but Austin's Fashion Week collection is up online now at the PR site.

Buford T Pusser 02-25-05 06:00 PM

Thanks!

shoppingbear 02-25-05 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by iggystar
...So still these tactics were pretty much worthless which is why many disliked Wendy. She didn't have the sense to figure out that she should have spent time trying to at least copy another designers idea (heck, that I could understand).

Don't forget the Nancy Odell challenge: Kara Saun had bolts of fabric out and on the cutting table, and Wendy came over and just took some of the fabric from Kara Saun's stack and used that... that's why the colors of the dress were so similar. From the dialogue during that episode (especially the whining from Wendy that Kara Saun was the teacher's pet or something), I think that's exactly what Wendy was trying to do: copy Kara Saun.

I agree with your comments completely, by the way. This is in essense an art competition, not a back-stabbing competition. Be the better designer and you will win; backstabbing belongs in all-strategy games like Survivor.

chowderhead 02-25-05 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Don't forget the Nancy Odell challenge: Kara Saun had bolts of fabric out and on the cutting table, and Wendy came over and just took some of the fabric from Kara Saun's stack and used that... that's why the colors of the dress were so similar. From the dialogue during that episode (especially the whining from Wendy that Kara Saun was the teacher's pet or something), I think that's exactly what Wendy was trying to do: copy Kara Saun.

I agree with your comments completely, by the way. This is in essense an art competition, not a back-stabbing competition. Be the better designer and you will win; backstabbing belongs in all-strategy games like Survivor.

First, I am GLAD that Jay won over the holier than thou hypocrite Kara. [Tim] Don't defend the shoes to me [/Tim]
I disagree with your suggestion that Wendy copied Kara's. Wendy won the challenge fair and square. Nancy O’Dell picked her dress because it most matched her specifications on what she wanted. No gowns - Austin. No pink - Jay. No sequins - Kara. Wendy advanced to the final three because there was always someone a bit worst. Everyone said she was basically a tailor/seamstress. She won the two challenges that had the most requirements and structure/parameters. She would work well in a very structured environment like a large clothing company.

Regarding the fabric store and Kara's accusations of Wendy stealing, the footage that was shown appeared to be the stores' security camera so we don't have the context in which that happened. Even if I accept the notion that someone can "call dibbs" on a certain color palette which I do not, how do you know it was Kara's stack. Kara was not anywhere near the table. For all we know, it was just a roll of cloth that someone left. How do you know Kara wanted that roll? Why would you leave it if that is the roll you wanted. All previous episodes showed people carrying and holding the rolls of fabric that they wanted.

Edit to add: perhaps, both Kera and Wendy noticed what O'Dell was wearing that day she came by and took that color into consideration??

Anyway, I am glad that Jay won. He deserved it more than Kara or Austin. :)

Emma311 02-26-05 12:50 AM

I loved this show from the beginning. I'm into fashion & it was fun to see the designers whip up new clothes. I'm glad that Jay (out of the remaining 3) won because I liked his personality. My favorite all along was Austin though. I loved his stuff. I couldn't stand Wendy. However & I couldn't believe this when I saw the runway show, but I loved her collection. I could see myself wearing most of it (not the naked ensemble). Hey I'm just a push over for velvet I guess.

shoppingbear 03-01-05 01:10 AM


Originally Posted by chowderhead
...Wendy advanced to the final three because there was always someone a bit worst. Everyone said she was basically a tailor/seamstress. She won the two challenges that had the most requirements and structure/parameters. She would work well in a very structured environment like a large clothing company.

Absolutely agree. If this show had been Project Sears, I would definitely have expected Wendy to win. :D


Originally Posted by chowderhead
Regarding the fabric store and Kara's accusations of Wendy stealing, the footage that was shown appeared to be the stores' security camera so we don't have the context in which that happened. Even if I accept the notion that someone can "call dibbs" on a certain color palette which I do not, how do you know it was Kara's stack. Kara was not anywhere near the table. For all we know, it was just a roll of cloth that someone left. How do you know Kara wanted that roll?

Umm, because Kara was the one who pulled the roll off the wall of like a billion rolls of fabric, Kara was the one who put those rolls of fabric on the table with the rest of her stuff, and when she turned away briefly to grab one more thing, Wendy comes over and just takes it. Like taking someone's stuff out of their shopping cart. If the roll had been over on the racks on the wall, fine, but Wendy waits until she sees Kara take a few bolts of a particular palette, THEN she goes and takes one of Kara's bolts of fabric, then suddenly decides to do that color palette herself? -ohbfrank- You're right: no one can call dibs on a color palette, but Wendy went from wandering aimlessly, to clearly jumping on Kara's bandwagon.

Kara made a bad judgement call in the last ep, but overall, she was the better designer of her and Wendy. Regardless, I'm find with Jay winning... just so long as it wasn't Wendy. :lol:

Big Boy Laroux 03-05-05 12:32 PM

Didn't like kara saun's runway show at all. aviation apparel? say what? aviation head gear and googgles? also, at least two of her models had to hold their dresses up because they couldn't walk in them. big mistake.

jay's line was just plain cool. fun, colorful, and I didn't care that it was matchy. i thought it looked good. and he really had something going with the headphones. it really tied everything together and made it seem like one complete line.

as for wendy, some of the stuff, I liked. like the last dress with the corset... but that could be because of the model wearing it. :) but she was a bitch. did she derve the stuff she got from kara (complete hypocrite and self-righteous) and the others? i don't think so. she had talent. as much as the other 2? no, but that's why she didn't win.

as for the o'dell challenge, that should have been earlier in the competition. you should not leave the decision of who goes to the final 3 up to some random "celebrity" who is picking the outfit.

Slow Hands 03-05-05 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by meritocracy
Nice...I was hoping he of the three remaining would win.

The only real winner of the show is Seal

candyrocket786 12-12-05 12:47 AM

Project Runway Season Two: Appreciation Thread
 
Didn't see a thread posted....so I figured I'd get things rolling.

So far I think the front runners are:

Nick
Chloe
Santino

Danny Franco is a wildcard for me. Not sure what to expect from him this season.

The star of the series... :D

http://dvdvampire.com/runway.gif

Seantn 12-12-05 04:14 AM

That bald guy is insane. Multiple personality disorder for sure. He kept cutting in and out of having a british accent while having his nervous breakdown. Did anyone else notice that?


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