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Survivor 12/04/03

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Survivor 12/04/03

Old 12-05-03, 02:37 PM
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She has never yelled at anyone other than Jon...so I really think it's silly that she's getting branded a bitch now that everyone is up Jon's ass. And everyone's boy Jon has also sat out plenty of challenges...he rides on the physical strength of Burton, before that, Rupert.
Old 12-05-03, 02:46 PM
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I disliked Sandra long before I was giving props to Jon. If you are going to talk about coattail riding, she was riding Rupert's coattails far more than Jon has been riding anyone's coattails.

Last edited by Red Dog; 12-05-03 at 02:48 PM.
Old 12-05-03, 02:51 PM
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Jon is so scrawny it grosses me out..

He looks like he just got rescued from Bergen-Belson...
Old 12-05-03, 02:51 PM
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It's too much fun, and something I look foward to, to post on this board about Survivor, with people who share my excitement re the show, for me to continue an argument about who is more annoying or hateful. So I'm just gonna drop the whole subject.
Old 12-05-03, 03:04 PM
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anyone else notice how pissed off rupert looks at every tribal council?
Old 12-05-03, 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by namrufmot
anyone else notice how pissed off rupert looks at every tribal council?
I guess he still thinks that he is entitled to win for some reason.
Old 12-05-03, 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by cdollaz
I guess he still thinks that he is entitled to win for some reason.

Someone should tell him that they are not starving w/o him.
Old 12-05-03, 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by namrufmot
anyone else notice how pissed off rupert looks at every tribal council?
I cannot wait to hear what he has to say at the final 2. That should be some quality entertainment. lol.
Old 12-05-03, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by balancer
Wait a sec, so back when it suited your needs of ripping Jon a new one, she was fine. Now that the Jonny Fairplay lovefest has begun, you don't like her anymore? Talk about incoherent.
My point wasn't that anyone "suits my needs." You learn more about these people as the show goes on and you also see their developing strategy etc... At first Sandra seemed very cut-to-the-chase and intelligent (as others have pointed out the thing in the village was great) and I still think she's a smart person. But I don't pick a person and stick with them through thick or thin on this show, nor do I just root for people I "like." I respect the players that take risks and have vision and I like to watch how they develop the game. Sandra is not one of those players, as far as I can tell. Jon is the closest to a classic Survivor genius (like Brian or Rob) on this season, although he's not quite there. It's also possible that Sandra has something up her sleeve, which I doubt right now. I'm not on anyone's love-train (like all the people who still "loved" Rupert even after he showed himself to be an egotistical psychopath with no realistic gameplan and a gross misunderstanding of the entire Survivor experience.)
Old 12-05-03, 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
I disliked Sandra long before I was giving props to Jon. If you are going to talk about coattail riding, she was riding Rupert's coattails far more than Jon has been riding anyone's coattails.
Could someone explain to me why riding coattails is bad? Anything to get you further doesn't seem to wrong in my book.
Old 12-05-03, 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Alyoshka
Could someone explain to me why riding coattails is bad? Anything to get you further doesn't seem to wrong in my book.

I didn't say it was. I didn't bring it up first. The thing about riding coattails, is that it can catch up to you though in the final vote. I think Jenna beating Matt last season is a great example. Matt rode Rob's coattails for much of the way whereas Jenna was more independent (well, she was tied at the hip with the genius Heidi, but she was not coattailing).
Old 12-05-03, 03:38 PM
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BTW, if anyone is interested, the CBS website has the application up for the Survivor after the All-Star edition. Applications are due sometime at the end of January.

... Personally I think they should go out on top after the All-Star edition. I'd think that many viewers will have no interest in another round of "normal" contestants after watching an all-star season. (I'll still watch though. Sigh. )
Old 12-05-03, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by namrufmot
anyone else notice how pissed off rupert looks at every tribal council?
Actually the most noticable thing about Rupert in the council is how he seemingly looked the same. Now TJ looked good
Old 12-05-03, 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by balancer
2/3 of the people are dead weight, and where is this annoying as hell part people keep yapping about? I haven't seen it.
Originally posted by cdollaz
Well, letting Christa take the fall for her screwup when Christa was supposed to be her pal was a total bitch move in my book.
What he said ^. Plus, she went to all that trouble to get Ti on her side with the bush spying. After which they had an agreement (or at least a clear understanding) that they would vote Burton out. She and Christa stabbed Ti in the back and voted Ti off instead. THEN, in the last episode Sandra has the nerve to ask Darrah how she is voting.
Originally posted by balancer
again, what yelling are you talking about? Jon deserved it, though now everyone loves him. Who else did she yell at?
She yelled at Burton for accusing her of dumping the fish (which she did!) For the record, I think Jon is scum, so not "everyone loves him."
Originally posted by Vegas9203
Whoa, dude...that was way more of a situation where she was put in a corner. What was she supposed to do? Say "I did it" That would have been suicidal, not to mention stupid
Oh, I get it...Sandra is the victim. OK. Wrong! She put herself in that corner. She shouldn't have dumped the fish in the first place. It was a childish thing to do. Because she didn't get her way, she lashed out.
Originally posted by Vegas9203
It's too much fun, and something I look foward to, to post on this board about Survivor, with people who share my excitement re the show, for me to continue an argument about who is more annoying or hateful. So I'm just gonna drop the whole subject.
I completely agree! It's fun to argue though. Nothing personal, of course.

[edit for grammar mistake]

Last edited by taa455; 12-05-03 at 10:45 PM.
Old 12-05-03, 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Alyoshka
Could someone explain to me why riding coattails is bad? Anything to get you further doesn't seem to wrong in my book.
Not "wrong" necessarily. Almost every winner did it at some point in the game. The problem is when that is basically the only strategy someone has. I feel if someone gets far in the game they should earn it themselves by smart strategy and winning challenges.
Old 12-05-03, 05:05 PM
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Take note: Everything wraps up next week. After the normal Thursday episode, the finale is on Sunday. Mark your calendars.
Old 12-05-03, 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by SunMonkey
All of a sudden this season has gotten really boring. Ho-hum. I hope this doesn't turn into another Thailand.

At least next week's preview looks interesting, but I'm sure that is just a tease. However, Rule #1 of Survivor seems to be that if you get cocky, you are next on the block.
It's the sameness of Survivor. How much can they change it? Not much IMO. I guess they don't have to with the huge ratings they've been getting.

I'm watching more of less because nothing's better on. But the backstabbing and the competitions get old.
Old 12-05-03, 06:56 PM
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I thought it was a rather boring season up until the ousting of Rupert. Things got interesting after that.
Old 12-05-03, 09:16 PM
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I've been avoiding this, because I know Sandra fans are few and far between here, but I'm going to step in and defend her a bit.

1) Sandra and Christa's decision to vote off Tijuana last week wasn't nearly as 'stupid' as everyone seems to think it is. True, Christa is gone this week, but that was bound to happen either way. Tijuana was telling Jon that Christa was next to go after Burton. Fairplay wasn't lying when he passed that info on to Sandra and Christa.

Also, Christa's CBS Chat informs us that Tijuana was threatening to vote her off instead of Burton. Now, who would you vote with? The power hungry Tijuana, whom you've only known for a little over a week (and who is only promising you 3 more days on the island)? Or Jon, the devil you know (who swore on his grandmother's grave and offered you Final 4)?

The girls were screwed any way you looked at it. They just went with the person who at least had the brains to lie to them, promising a better deal. However, the route they took looks to be more beneficial for Sandra in the long run. Whereas aligning with Tijuana and Darrah woul have only earned her 6 more days on the island, she now has a chance to stay another 3 (at least) if she can convince Lillian and Darrah that either Jon or Burton must go.

2) I don't know what to say about the fish dumping incident that hasn't already been said. Sandra said she tripped, spilling the fish by accident. Maybe I'm naive for believing her, but she doesn't strike me as the type to feel she has to lie in confessional. Furthermore, anyone who says they would have told the truth, if only to prove what a wonderful friend they are to Christa, is an idiot who would deserve the boot at the next tribal council. I'm sure America would love you for being such a stand-up guy/girl, but you'd hate yourself later for screwing yourself out of a chance for a million.

3) I'm as much of a Jon fan as the next guy. That is, if the next guy is a Jon fan. I too think the Grandmother lie was brilliant, but there's a reason it hasn't been used up til now. It's the kind of dirty play that most true players don't need to resort to. The beauty of what people like Richard and Brian did lies in the fact that they were skilled enough to convince others to do their bidding without having to garner sympathy. Everyone's jaws may have dropped last episode when they saw what Jon did, but I was reacting similarly to a different play.

What Sandra accomplished with her "bushdropping" strategy was one of the best moves I've seen thus far on Survivor. Never before has someone so obviously next (or close to next) on the chopping block been able to turn things around for themselves. Forget about whether or not Sandra and Christa actually went through with siding with Tijuana and Darrah. She still accomplished what she set out to do, and she didn't stop at just suggesting Jon and Burton's endgame. She made sure T heard the plan straight out of their mouths.

You may see her as a coattail-rider, but THIS is what Sandra does. She sees that her future in the game is in jeopardy, so she snatches someone else and throws them onto the tracks. She did it with Trish, she did it with Tijuana and I predict she'll do it again next week.

4) Finally, I hate to make assumptions, but the Darrah love/Sandra hate here leads me to believe that Vegas9203 has a point. Sandra is an intelligent, intuitive woman who is unafraid to speak her mind whenever she deems it necessary. Darrah keeps her mouth shut, which seems to work for her in the game, but makes for a boring player. Of course, since she has a 'smokin' bod and accidentally shows her blurry tits every few episodes, countless guys seem to be rooting for her. I guess a lot of people want their women seen and not heard, but I'm not one of them.

As much as people want to keep believing it, this game is not about surviving by winning challenges. I'm glad Darrah's won the last two Immunities, because at least she's finally on the show in some manner, but it's no reason to root for someone.

The same comparison could be made with Lillian and Darrah. Both seem to be playing the same "just tell me what to do and I'll do it" game. Hell, Darrah even chimed in with a "Me too!" after Lillian said she likes it when a man takes charge. The difference being people seem to hate Lill because she's unattractive and uses her mouth, yet they like Darrah for the opposite. I'm not defending Lill. She's been working my nerves as of late. I'm just pointing out what I find to be an interesting trend.

Ok, so that was more than "a bit" and I'm sure only 2 or 3 people will actually take the time to read all that. I figured I'd put it out there anyway, just in case someone is interested in looking at the events with an open mind.
Old 12-05-03, 09:29 PM
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What Twinetime said ^
Old 12-05-03, 10:27 PM
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I've never liked Jon from Day 1 but I gotta give him credit for the way he's playing the game. It might be dirty and evil but you gotta do what you gotta do to be the last one standing.

Anyone else notice we didn't get one of those re-cap episodes at the mid way point? As far as I know they've done that every season up until now.
Old 12-05-03, 10:37 PM
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Just some friendly disagreement...
Sandra and Christa's decision to vote off Tijuana last week wasn't nearly as 'stupid' as everyone seems to think it is.
Regardless, they should not have passed on the chance to oust Burton. Deal with the Christa situation later. You never know how things can change in a matter of days. Besides, why did Ti want Christa gone? Because of the fish incident, maybe? That was certainly part of it.

Now, about the fish "dumping"...
I can't understand why anyone would defend that. It was a dumb, juvenile action, simple as that. It was not strategy. Even if she did trip and spill the fish "accidently" the question is what was she trying to accomplish by carrying the fish into the jungle? How could it conceivably help Sandra in the game? All it did was hurt Sandra by puttng a target on her closest ally, Christa.
What Sandra accomplished with her "bushdropping" strategy was one of the best moves I've seen thus far on Survivor.
I will give her credit. Her "bushdropping" (love that word, btw) was very smart. It's what she did (and did not) do with the information that was dumb, imo.
You may see her as a coattail-rider, but THIS is what Sandra does. She sees that her future in the game is in jeopardy, so she snatches someone else and throws them onto the tracks. She did it with Trish, she did it with Tijuana and I predict she'll do it again next week.
Both Trish and Tijuana hung themselves. I think you give Sandra too much credit. Besides, in neither of those times was Sandra in immediate jeopardy of being voted out.
I guess a lot of people want their women seen and not heard,
Actually I prefer all people to be this way, not just women. What I mean is I would prefer someone show their qualities (whether they be strength, leadership, compassion, intelligence, or whatever) by their actions rather than by their words only.
As much as people want to keep believing it, this game is not about surviving by winning challenges.
Maybe not, but I certainly respect the players that can win challenges. In my mind, they are a little more deserving of the prize.

Last edited by taa455; 12-05-03 at 11:02 PM.
Old 12-05-03, 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Setzer
Anyone else notice we didn't get one of those re-cap episodes at the mid way point? As far as I know they've done that every season up until now.
We got an extra episode this time because of the "Outcasts" twist. Two people went out and two came in that episode, so the net change was zero for that ep. I always HATED that re-cap crap!
Old 12-05-03, 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by TwineTime

2) I don't know what to say about the fish dumping incident that hasn't already been said. Sandra said she tripped, spilling the fish by accident. Maybe I'm naive for believing her, but she doesn't strike me as the type to feel she has to lie in confessional.
Doesn't matter really. She was doing *something* with the fish. If she really tripped before she could toss them somewhere, so what?


Furthermore, anyone who says they would have told the truth, if only to prove what a wonderful friend they are to Christa, is an idiot who would deserve the boot at the next tribal council. I'm sure America would love you for being such a stand-up guy/girl, but you'd hate yourself later for screwing yourself out of a chance for a million.
No debate with her choice to not tell the truth. Once it went down as it did, it was smarter of her to let Christa take the fall. I don't hold that against her.

What I do see though is a pattern of emotionally reacting to situations, not logically thinking them out. Kinda like Osten.
Old 12-05-03, 11:17 PM
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She's definately shows her emotions. She knows that too. I think she knows herself pretty well. I'm surprised she has stayed this long, given that trait I originally though her inability to keep a secret would do her in, but she seems to be doing ok, keeping them to this point.

I also think she was honest when she said "there is no way they were getting Rupert's fish". She stands by her friends whether it's smart or not. Dumping the fish definately wasn't smart and she was intending on getting rid of them. All I could think about was, wouldn't those fish be disease ridden after sitting out, while they were at tribal counsil anyway. Grosses me out just thinking about eating 4-10 hour old fish, that wasn't refigerated.

Last edited by Bigsierra; 12-05-03 at 11:44 PM.

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