SergeantPinback

The final outcome is pretty good proof to me that the show is fixed.

Not ONE of those six could answer the question as to why they voted for Jenna.

No offence, but I'm not buying it.......

Joeboo835

Some quick notes on the show:

- As predicted by me last week, Jenna won. Not very surprising since I had Butch and Matt in my pool. I never win those things and I figured Rob had no chance.

- Unfortunately, I thought Heidi looked pretty good last night. I'm not usually a big fan of blondes, but compared to her on the show, it was a complete 180. Amazing what makeup can do. But then i remembered why she wasn't attractive to me when she opened her mouth. (however i will admit I will check out her playboy spread when it hits the DVDTalk "Mature" forum)

- I hated rob throughout this entire season but he turned me around on the reunion show. He didn't seem arrogant at all, he actually seemed pretty cool.

- I didn't get Christy and Deena's votes. I understand the rest, but I thought for sure those 2 would vote for matt. Christy cause she swore she wouldn't let them win and Deena cause she hated Jenna. I'm starting to think its fixed too.

Finally, its truly amazing how this show plays out just like life. The hard working, honest, kind people never win. Its either the lying, backstabbing or lazy people that win. It just shows you that luck has everything to do with it.

Dubya

To add some fuel to the talk of it being fixed, a man won the first survivor, then a woman, then a man, then a woman, then a man, now a woman......should we assume a man is going to win the next one?

movieking

I can't understand how this happened. I guess it is the magic of editting let us think that some relationships were stronger than they were. Still can't believe that Rob didn't vote for Matthew though...

sm8680

Maybe Matt's personality skills did him in. Deserving or not those at times play an important rule. Sure it seems that Matt possibly didn't need the money. But did anyone feel that because Jenna's mother is sick that she possibly got a sympathy vote or 2.

Great season for Survivor. Everytime you thought something was going to happen it didn't. The show its self zig and zagged more times than Rob.

Struz

I'm still in shock.

How the f$&@ could Jenna win ?
She did NOTHING the entire time on the island !

She hung with majority and layed around while everyone else did the work.

to Butch for actually voting for the person who deserved to win.

Matt did most of the work and dominated the physical challenges.
Plus Matt was a very generous guy, sharing his rewards and letting the other see their relatives instead of seeing his mother.
Compare that to Jenna who winned and cried everyt time she lost (especially with the food auction and the letter from home).
She blews all her money on peanut butter then cries when Christy out bid her.

Matt admitted he threw the final immunity challenge, that was a huge mistake. He should have won it and took Rob to the final 2.
The women on the jury always vote for the women survivor in the final 2. By picking Rob it would have thrown that aspect out.
I'm not saying Matt would have definately won but he would have had a much better chance.

This show had too many annoying people, Deena, Heidi, Alex, Shawna, Dan...

I knew Deena was going to vote for any women that was inthe final 2 no matter what. Jenna back stabbed Deena and voted her out but Denna still votes for her.

Heidi was voting for Jenna against anyone regardless of wether Jenna deserved it.

Christy also get screwed by Jenna, vows to never let her win, then votes for her. Jenna also ignored Christy the entire time she was with her until the one time she needed her.

I was suprised with Rob's vote, he knew Jenna did nothing and Matt helped him get to the final 3 be he too voted for Jenna.
(I also saw his vote for Jenna through the back of his card)

This win was similar to Vecepia's. A woman who did nothing for 39 days won against a man who worked hard.

Here's a great article on the final vote:

Survivor Barbs: The Jury from Hell!!
Episode 13/Reunion
5.11.03 by James Barber


What can be said about the finale? I know that the parts should not equal the whole, that most of this season has been good, even great at times, but it will be a while before I can look back at this season with any fondness now, because of the outcome. I have never been quite this disappointed. Not when Vecepia won, not even when Flo from Amazing Race 3 won.

Jenna didn't deserve a million dollars. Jenna didn't deserve a dollar. Jenna was lazy, self-righteous, manipulative, petty, content to let others do every lick of scheming and slaving until the very end, when they were exhausted and she could coast on her pent-up energy. Pulling a Kim Johnson got her a victory.

Yet, her win is not what upset me the most. I don't know how sincere she was about realizing her horrible behavior, I don't know how she will spend her money. Even if she spends her money on knock-knock joke books and lime green Jolly Ranchers, I will not be as irritated with her as I am with that damn jury.

The worst jury EVER.

A jury who were so caught up in their own machismo and sore feelings that they could not vote based on merit. Instead, most of the men voted based on their anger at being beaten to final 2 by another man. Deena apparently voted based on who did not have a penis. Heidi voted because she's Heidi. Christy voted based on a loss of any common sense.

Let's talk about that vote of Christy's. Even if the editing was very biased in favor of Christy, Jenna did not treat her too kindly. Christy swore on national tv she would never vote for Jenna or Heidi. And yet when the crunch came down, Christy voted for Jenna because she "outwitted and outplayed" and because "she had been with Jenna from day 1." Did she think Matt was beamed on via spaceship at the merge? Did she not think that Matt struggled as well, and had to outwit and outplay to get as far as he did?

To think that Christy made herself into the victim of these women, that she went on Letterman and called them "bitches", when all along she had *rewarded* them for their callous treatment of her. From the start Christy gave off self-defeating, wishy-washy vibes, but still I thought she was a fighter, I thought she would not let Jenna profit from her bad behavior. By voting for Jenna, Christy approved of snobbery, of abuse. She approved of people walking all over anyone who is not pretty or popular. This is only a game, yes, Christy will go on with her life, but the mixed messages that Christy has sent out are shameful and baffling. I have lost any respect for Christy that I ever had.

Then there's Alex, who smirks and pokes fun at Matt because Matt is "crazy". Well, Alex, I think that a person who behaves with class and who believes in fair play is saner than a person that is so wrapped up in their own testosterone that they vote for a person based solely on the fact that she was not a guy, that she was some arm candy on the side.

We can't forget about Rob. As Jeff will tell you, Rob is perhaps the best player ever. Not if you ask me. I think the best player is someone who is gracious, who is not a bad loser, who does not vote out of spite and bruised ego. Lex and Kathy left with some dignity. Rob left with a truckload of sour grapes and one last desperate attempt to be in with the "cool kids".

Heidi was about as clueless and hilarious as I expected. Dave gave a weak attempt at showing off his great depth and intelligence - Jenna's response to him was probably the high point of the season for her. The only one who did not disappoint or degrade was Butch. Butch had true class and intelligence to the very end.

The jury is supposed to be about awarding money based on merit and behavior throughout the game. The jury are not supposed to have their minds made up long before they write a name down on paper. They are not supposed to have a high-school mentality where they are so insecure in their own masculinity or self-esteem that they have to designate a winner who will make their egos bruise a little less. They are supposed to take the high road. Instead, they shamed the jury process, themselves, Matthew, and the viewing public. When Kelly Wiglesworth discussed the jury votes against her in an interview, she revealed that Sean told her he voted for Richard because he could not tolerate the idea of a woman beating him. Well, several men on the jury have proven that voting for the woman can reveal just as many insecurities. This was a vote of intolerance and disrespect. This was a vote that says anyone who is a little different or is not "friendly" enough is worthless.

Am I being too hard? Was Matt a lunatic whom we never truly got to see the dark sides of? Perhaps. Going by what we did see, Matt was a no-nonsense guy who cared about taking the game seriously and about providing for all around him. Apparently that type of attitude is to be resented and detested, not lauded.

Was Jenna overedited in the bitch department? Probably. I'm sure there were many heart-to-heart conversations with Heidi or vulnerable moments with other tribe members that we never saw. But no matter how she was edited, Jenna's conduct in the game was not the proper manner for a winner. And because Jeff was content to pat Jenna on the head, to rub defeat in Matthew's face (6-1, a landslide, yippee, blah blah), we never found out the real reasons why she won. The malice and the ugliness that went into those people writing down her name will forever be whitewashed by phony grins. Matt got the shaft in the Amazon and on that reunion show. He has far more patience than most in his position would.

I don't care what the jury said - Matthew was the true winner of Survivor: Amazon. He does not need the money, because he has our respect. Let Jenna have the money. I hope she helps her mother and helps improve her own life. In terms of the game, I will never feel that she earned any kind of victory. That won't change.

It's strange that another season, just like Marquesas, started with a bang and ended with a derailment. This finale made a mockery of so much of what Survivor stands for. I will be watching next season, but members of my family, some friends, they've already told me they won't be. Perhaps they are caught up in anger, and their story will be different next fall. Regardless, it's pretty damn pathetic when you go from one of the best-reviewed finales ever to one of the worst in the space of 2 hours. I got almost 100 e-mails from readers over the past few days telling me they loved this season, and I wonder how they feel now. I'm guessing that many of them took this in stride and are looking forward to next season. That is the mature attitude to take, after all. But seeing that jury, seeing such a blatantly unbalanced and unfair win...Survivor was dealt a blow that I am not sure they will ever fully recover from. I really hope they can, because surely no jury can ever behave as poorly as this one did. I guess everything depends on season 7 and how the quality is. If it's another Thailand or Africa, then the show may be on it's last legs.

I hope season 7 has a better finale. And I hope that no one is disappointed in me for not having a more positive reaction. In time I may go back and rewatch this season, and see that the end does not cancel out the strong moments that came before. Right now, I'm bummed. I can't put on a happy face. I tried, I really did, but that jury got the best of me. If you're looking for praise...well, Butch gets my vote. The way they handled the flashback segment this year was wonderful. Jeff on the jet ski and subway was cheesy on first viewing but I really enjoyed the deliberate silliness of it all on second viewing. Some of Jeanne and Daniel's remarks were amusing. Deena has a beautiful smile. That's about all I can think of right now.

On a brighter note: Amazing Race 4 premieres in Survivor's timeslot on May 29.

Patman

I think Jenna was faking it (being sick and tired of it all, making herself look weak to the men) when it got down to the final 5, and that got Heidi booted out (who didn't display much in terms of strategy AND execution of strategy as well as Jenna).

Rob has no one to blame but himself for not being strong enough to outlast Jenna in the final immunity challenge. If he won immunity, he would have the big prize because I'm pretty sure the jury would have award him enough votes simply on the strength of his game in Survivor, but Rob was not strong enough in the very end, and all his work those previous 38 days went down the Amazon along with his dreams of being a millionaire from Survivor.

On today's CBS Morning show, Jenna conceded that she had to win final immunity and take Matt along with her in order to win because she felt that she could not win against Rob. When Matt was asked who he'd take, he said that he would have also taken Jenna because Rob was too strong to take to the finals as well, and he lamented that he still could have lost by the wide margin of votes in that scenario.

Patman

I think it would be really funny if the men in future installments sat on their butts (when in a coed tribe environment) and see how long the lazy women last in those conditions (or actually contributed to the shelter of their camp), thus negating that whole sex appeal aspect of the game.

Red Dog

Jenna won because she won 4 of the last 8 ICs. I think that carried a lot of weight with the jury. I questioned the booting of Heidi instead of Jenna in the cut from 5 to 4 when it happened since I thought Jenna would have more appeal to potential jurors than Heidi.

It was definitely a surprising vote though, no doubt.

I am not a Jenna fan, but she was definitely more deserving than Tina or Vecepia from previous editions. I give her credit for winning that last IC. She could have taken Rob's offer, but she knew as well as we all did that Rob would get more votes than her. She beat the supposed best when it counted most and that should count a lot. Frankly, the jury vote did not bother me. Matt was riding the coattails of Rob until the last week.

Soybean

I want to send Matt a letter of condolence. Any idea of how I would do that? I feel very bad for him. As it is in life, the worst of humanity always win.

[edit] I don't know.... Tina was at least nice to everyone. Jenna just had no positive qualities at all, unless you were a young male or Heidi.

B.A.

Okay - I remember all four of Jenna's IC wins - thanks to whoever posted them. Even though she won those four, I still don't think she deserved the crown, but as Red Dod said, she was more deserving than Tina or V were in past seasons. You can't really argue against that.

Great Article, Struz.

Dubya - at work, we have been talking about how a guy will win it all the next time, because you know CBS will not want to stray from their winner's cycle.

C Roberts

I'm still not sure how Jenna managed to win. She didn't deserve it and her answers to the jury made that abundantly clear. I'm thinking at this point some of the jury was paid to vote for Jenna. Either that or they just didn't want to listen to her whine and cry when she lost.

Matthew earned the win and is the true survivor who outwitted, outlasted, and outplayed everybody in Survivor: Amazon.

Rob is a putz and if he was really the "best survivor player ever" than he'd have gotten at least to the end. Better work on building those relationships Rob. Sadly he was the most entertaining survivor this year though.

Christy, WTF? I had some respect for her before, but its all gone now. She voted for the girl who treated her like crap the whole time and even mocked her handicap at one point.

Heidi may have an IQ, but since she can't spell most common names correctly I don't think she's very intelligent. And is she like in love with Jenna or something? She kept talking like she worshipped the ground Jenna walked on.

Alex, I'm happy for him that women seem to like him, but considering who those women are I'm also happy that I'm not him. LOL

monkyskunk

If it was fixed, then why did they have the outcome be such a landslide. Wouldn't it be better to have it come down to the final vote being read to determine the winner, than to have Jenna's name being read off by Jeff 4 consecutive times. IMO, I think it makes for better viewing when it goes down like that, instead of what occurred last night.

Going into tribal council I thought Jenna was going to end up winning, but after the Q & A session I figured maybe Matt does have a chance after all and that perhaps the last vote was going to have to be read in order to determine the winner. So after Matt scored the first vote, I kept on waiting to hear his name being read again, but it never happened. That sucked, for I love the tension and build up that occurs when it comes down to the very last vote.

GuessWho

And there's no cooler talking animal than Kangaroo Jack!!!

atlantamoi

I wanted Matt to win ever since the merge... yeah, I was disappointed last night. However, in NO way was Jenna's win as undeserved as Vecepia's. That one will always be a head scratcher. Jenna played the game very well the last few days. I hated seeing it, but she wasn't a complete slouch the whole game. When she picked Matt I thought Matt had it wrapped up, but then I started to worry that Matt would have a hard time explaining himself to the group since he would come across at times as being a bit clueless. But I don't think Jenna was any better with words during the trial.

I really don't get why Rob voted for Jenna. Or Christy. That's really confusing. I also noticed what Rob wrote on his card and saw the CBS graphic about Jenna's family so the surprise ending wasn't nearly as suspenseful. Maybe next time.

This morning on CBS's morning show a caller asked what the deal was with Matt and Jenna hanging on each other. They both said that they were very good friends and probably always will be. But when pressed a little more they didn't really deny it could lead to more. Doesn't mean much maybe, but it's interesting.

Patman

Hmm...if Matt got a wife out of this, can't say he lost much, but seeing Jenna hanging onto Matt on the wrapup show was strange, but stranger things have happened. Perhaps they could complement each other's strength. Who knows...

Red Dog

Rob carried Matt most of the time. That is likely why he didn't vote for Matt.

Jadzia

I think both Matt and Rob looked better on the island than on the reunion show.

Looked much better on the reunion: Heidi

Looked the same: Christy, Dave


Butch looked really different, but I can't tell which "look" was better.

SpaceBoy

I'll be yet another to chime in with my disgust for the outcome.

I watch the show to for the pure "survivor factor" and couldn't get more annoyed when the workers are simply voted off, because the lazier, and more spoiled people can't compete. They should really do something about the game, where work/effort comes into play. The year Vecepi won was worse then this, because I stopped watching after they voted off the Navy or Air force guy like the 1st show.. He was the only guy who knew anything at all about surviving.. yet was 1st to go basically.

The voters already had their mind made up I believe, however, if I was matt, I would have..

1. Stressed how he gave up his reward so they could all see their families (I didn't hear him mention this once, not mentioning it shows me he was a pretty decent guy, although I think it would have helped his case)
2. Worked so hard, and point out the fact, that after Heidi and Jenna thought they were truly goners, they simply sat around and watched as the men did all they work. They openly said, why should we work, we're going to just get voted off. In my mind, that is just tasteless, to sit around and not try to help out all these "amazing people I'll never forget" as they all mention.

I think Matt was a restaurant owner, not designer, but I could be wrong. Regardless, who couldn't use the money? That's just stupid. He is much more deserving then some 21 year old who says she has a handicap of beauty.

It just boggles my mind how Kristy can vote for her after that.

Rob, voting for her, when Jenna said she wanted to take the best player to the final then taking Matt.. Only to later turn 180 and say Rob was the best player. So yet another lie?

The Rocket guy.. accepting such a copout answer as her mom. Maybe it's because she simply didn't know a leader.. maybe it's because you'd be hard pressed to find an example of a leader who simply sits around and complains etc..

The "girl power" girl I mean, how does she vote for Jenna when the girl would openly mock the uglier/older girls, and represents everything she hates, a woman who has no substance other than her looks.

Who knows, it's only a show, so life will continue, but it's just sad to me, how the game which is suppose to be "reality TV" only seems to portray the truly bad parts of our society. Hard work gets you far, but there is always somebody who's a bit prettier or more popular than you, who will get the advantage based upon that.

Also, you can truly only count on your friends and family, not the people who play nice to you.. In the end neither had friends, just people with grudges, and hurt feelings.. who wanted to be able to say they help vote in the winner..

Red Dog

That was such a stupid question. I'm not sure that I could name a current leader that I respect if you give me all day, let alone a few minutes.

Patman

Well, Survivor is pretty much like high school. Think about it.

Darq

What a great season completely ruined by a useless jury.

Dubya

I only started watching about midway through the season so I didn't know about everyone's background. I just read Matt's bio on the survivor site and although I don't know how much he makes, I do agree with Jenna that it seems like that was another "thing to do in life" for him. He must be making some pretty nice bank to live the life he is living.

As for Rocket Man's question, is anyone else as sick of the jury getting to grandstand as I am? It is as if they figure that this is their last moment in the spotlight before they go back to a life of anonymity. I mean you get to know the people during all that time and then you are going to base your vote on how they answer some superfluous question?

atlantamoi

Funny how we can all view things differently. That was such a dumb question and it was uncomfortable watching Matt have to pull some random name out of the air. I probably would have said something similar to Jenna because my family is a much greater influence than any political leader. Seemed like an irrelevant question for the game.

movieking

Probably the worst question that I have ever heard on a Survivor...