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All Right, Admit It -- Star Trek TOS Sucked

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All Right, Admit It -- Star Trek TOS Sucked

Old 05-01-03, 03:37 PM
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All Right, Admit It -- Star Trek TOS Sucked

OK folks, I've had a hard time coming to grips with this, seeing as how I grew up on Star Trek when I was a kid... but here goes:

(deep breath)

Star Trek (The Original Series) sucked.

Not only did it suck, but it sucked long and hard. It sucked on many different levels, some obvious, some sublime. While I applaud the concept, the execution of that concept was awful, even for the time, and even for their given budget.

I'd like to say how at least the actors excelled... but I really can't. Everybody knocks down William Shatner, but tell me, is George Takei really any better? Could any two actors in Hollywood do worse accents than Jimmy Doohan and Walter Koenig? How about the wooden performances of Nichelle Nichols and Majel Barrett? I'll give you Leonard Nimoy and DeForrest Kelley if you like, but that still leaves a whole lot to be desired.

The writing is constantly lauded, but come on... can you really make it through an entire episode without cringing? I loved "The City on the Edge of Forever" (Harlan Ellison), but after that? Even some of the better episodes, like "The Trouble with Tribbles" (David Gerrold) and "Amok Time" (Theodore Sturgeon) contained lines of dialogue and scenes of such thesbian contortionism that you have to just sit and stare.

And as for some of the other storylines... how many freakin' alternate Earths can there possibly be? Let's see, we have a planet modeled after the Roman Empire, the hippie free-love movement, the American Indians, and 1930's Chicago. Through various manipulations, we have been subjected to Abraham Lincoln, Genghis Khan, Jack the Ripper, and a giant louffa. Some of the episodes are so bad that their very name elicits a shudder, even among the most die-hard Trekker. ("Spock's Brain", anyone?)

I won't knock the special effects... yes, I know the show's entire FX budget was only $1.57... and I know that it was light years ahead of it's time, but... aaargh... OK, let me just say this: if I see one more scene of stock footage of the Enterprise firing at something just off screen (ship to the top-right corner, firing down), I'll have to take a stick and start beating things.

I do appreciate some of the little things: the transporter effect, the sound effects, the choice of music... but for the most part, folks... and this is coming from a fan... we all need to come to grips with the fact that Star Trek sucked. Lots of other TV shows also sucked around this time -- I Dream of Jeannie comes to mind -- but we don't revere Rogner Nelson and have convention panelists debate "The Physics of the Tiny Glass Bottle", do we?

I mean, come on!
Old 05-01-03, 03:42 PM
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Nope.

das
Old 05-01-03, 03:42 PM
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I doubt I would be a Trek fan at all if it wasn't for the likes of TNG and DS9. If it were left to TOS, Voyager, and Enterpirse alone, Star Trek would not be nearly as big as it is today. And if TNG never came along, TOS would just be another cult favorite, like Battlestar Galactica.

And I agree wholeheartedly...the show sucked. There are a few good episodes, but wow, the majority of them make Voyager look good.
Old 05-01-03, 03:46 PM
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WdS*






*What das Said
Old 05-01-03, 03:47 PM
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What happened to the "Y"*

das

* Yeah
Old 05-01-03, 03:54 PM
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No way. TOS is at the top of the Trek pyramid.
Old 05-01-03, 03:54 PM
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I thought it made for a more reinforcing statement without it.

Or:

[insert self-deprecating-humor-to-offset-blatant-stupidity schtick]



Ah, I crack myself up.
Old 05-01-03, 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by calhoun07
I doubt I would be a Trek fan at all if it wasn't for the likes of TNG and DS9. If it were left to TOS, Voyager, and Enterpirse alone, Star Trek would not be nearly as big as it is today. And if TNG never came along, TOS would just be another cult favorite, like Battlestar Galactica.

And I agree wholeheartedly...the show sucked. There are a few good episodes, but wow, the majority of them make Voyager look good.
Old 05-01-03, 04:08 PM
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WWSAWdS*

*What Wizdar Said About What das said

I'm guessing nowadays B&B are spending that $1.57 on scripts..?
Old 05-01-03, 04:28 PM
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ncmojo, I have but one thing to say to you:

May you "die of suffocation, in the icy cold of space!"

HERETIC!!!

Old 05-01-03, 04:37 PM
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First of all Mojo, you've got real balls comming in here with this.

Second, I agree TOS did suck

Third, I will defend all the alternate Earths.

While it is silly to think there would be a 1920's planet and a hippie planet, it is important to realise that the writers were doing thsi in order to address contemporary issues in a sci-fi setting. TNG's use of the holodeck was far more effective, but the alternate earths is forgivable, since, I feel, the ends justified the silly means.
Old 05-01-03, 04:41 PM
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It was great for it's time, but yeah it leaves a lot to be desired in the modern era. Does it suck? No. Does Buck Rogers in the 25th Century suck? Does Gil Gerard suck?




Most definitely!!!!
Old 05-01-03, 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by waporvare
It was great for it's time, but yeah it leaves a lot to be desired in the modern era. Does it suck? No. Does Buck Rogers in the 25th Century suck? Does Gil Gerard suck?




Most definitely!!!!


There were 2 reasons why Buck Rogers did not suck.




Old 05-01-03, 04:59 PM
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Erin Gray's still hot and will be at Dragon*Con again this year. Note to self: lure Erin Gray to hotel room under pretense of ... er ... um ... nevermind.

das
Old 05-01-03, 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Pants
Third, I will defend all the alternate Earths.

While it is silly to think there would be a 1920's planet and a hippie planet, it is important to realise that the writers were doing thsi in order to address contemporary issues in a sci-fi setting. TNG's use of the holodeck was far more effective, but the alternate earths is forgivable, since, I feel, the ends justified
the silly means.
Ya know, if there were truly noble ends being addressed, then maybe I'd agree with you, but the "alternate Earth" episodes almost always turned out to be among the lamest. My least favorite TOS moment of all time has to be in "Bread and Circuses" when Kirk and Spock were sitting around discussing the planet from the bridge of the Enterprise (heavy paraphrasing to follow):

SPOCK: I cannot believe that a society as technologically advanced would still choose to worship a sun deity.

UHURA: No, you don't understand. They weren't talking about the sun in the sky. They were talking about the Son of God.

(all nod in understanding)

KIRK: Wouldn't it be something to be able to watch them all... see it happen all over again.

(theme music)

Aaaaarrrrgh... that is so lame! Even for what was bound to be some kind of Easter episode, even for 1960's television, that moment so totally feels forced and out of place it makes my head feel like exploding.

Most of the Pseduo-Earth episodes were just excuses to rehash old studio sets and costumes. "A Piece of the Action"? No real message or point, other than "we have the might, that gives us the right". "Patterns of Force"? Some kind of "Nazis are bad" message, I suppose. "A Private Little War"? Evidently an anti-war, anti-Vietnam message, but in a really heavy-handed way.

I just think the writers took advantage of the fact that it was "science fiction" to just do whatever the heck they wanted. "Hey, I think I'd like to write a story about two pink hippopotamuses playing chess and debating philosophy." "Well,. see if Star Trek is still looking for writers..."
Old 05-01-03, 05:07 PM
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I mean this in the most polite way possible ...



das
Old 05-01-03, 05:28 PM
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Mmmm, Thespian Contortionists...
Old 05-01-03, 05:34 PM
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I wouldn't say it sucked. It had its moments.
Old 05-01-03, 05:46 PM
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I half agree and half disagree. Is that vague enough for you?

It sucked liked any 60's hour-long genre show sucked. Time Tunnel is probably as good. Space:1999 was better once in a while.

But compared to Lost In Space -- or later Battlestar Galactica or Buck Rogers it's friggin' genius...
Old 05-01-03, 05:59 PM
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Well, God knows I’m not afraid to take a contrary stand. And everyone else should know that somebody has hacked my password, so this is not really Wizdar “speaking.”

There are some points to be made on the TOS sucked front. “Bread and Circuses” is, unfortunately, a good example. But, consider that it came in at the end of the 2nd season. Also, I’m hoping that nobody from the Heretic Fringe will lower themselves to bringing up any of the 3rd season. That, admittedly, was an also-ran season with no real sincerity, much on the order of Voyager.

And “I, Mudd.” Would B&B have the balls to do an episode like that? No way.

However, I think I know something of the time when TOS originally aired. There was little, if anything, of what one might consider to be “breakthrough” TV during that time. TOS and Man from U.N.C.L.E. were a coupla of examples. [C’mon, das, quit laughing at me.] All that was going on at that time was westerns, westerns, Leave It to Beaver, and westerns.

TOS does not stand the test of time. I can’t think of anything that really does or will. I see folks posting about how the CGI for this or that sucked, and I just gotta . However, to say that it sucked at the time is silly. And to give it anything less than the reverence it deserves is un-American. Without TOS, the state of SF would be quite different today.
Old 05-01-03, 06:10 PM
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Yes, TOS sucks.

Next Gen was ok.

DS9 was good.

Voyager was ****.

Only a couple of the movies were any good (II & VI).

Enterprise... I've never seen.
Old 05-01-03, 06:40 PM
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Wow. Usually you have to be in the Other Forum to read such stupid opinions.

I will admit that in now, in 2003, TOS might look a bit dated, but in terms of what the show did, and when it did it, Star Trek was most certainly one of the greatest TV shows in history. It dealt with many complex issues, such as war, race, and women's equality, years before any other TV shows would touch such subjects, and it did it in a way that was rarely preachy and almost always entertaining.

The very fact that the show has been endlessly parodied and tributed (Saturday Night Live and South Park, just to name two) and is still, after 35 years, watchable and enjoyable tells me all I need to know. And if I needed to know more I only have to think about the memorable and unique characters that the show gave us.
Old 05-01-03, 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by ncmojo
Star Trek (The Original Series) sucked
BLASPHEMY



and that's all I have to say on the subject.
Old 05-01-03, 07:18 PM
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Let's me say this, with as much restraint as possible.

No!

It is, and remains, the best show of its genre.
Old 05-01-03, 07:19 PM
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Okay I do consider myself a trekkie though I was not even thought of when TOS aired. That being said, when I look at TOS now I just think it's cheesy. I became a trekkie because of TNG and DS9 and have only seen a handful of TOS episodes. The ones I've seen have at least one roll your eyes moment but I feel that way about most shows produced during that time. So I wouldn't go so far as to say it sucked since there are shows on today that are far worse than any TOS episode.

Half the time I can't figured out which was worse TOS or Voyager though Enterprise is slowly gaining on these two.

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