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A question for all you Buffy fans (regarding Angel)

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A question for all you Buffy fans (regarding Angel)

Old 04-30-03, 12:46 PM
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A question for all you Buffy fans (regarding Angel)

I never watched Buffy on TV, but I have enjoyed the first two seasons on DVD and I have season 3 on the way. I've heard that Angel isn't as good as Buffy is, but that there are a few episodes that crossover with Buffy.

How essential is Angel to getting the complete Buffy? I'm trying to decide if I should use the rest of my freedvd points to get Angel season 1 or if I shoud try and get a few more and get CSI season 1. Any help would be appreciated.
Old 04-30-03, 12:53 PM
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Purists will claim it is essential, but as a viewer who has watched every ep of BtVS from the start (and only a handful of Angel episodes), I don't feel I'm missing anything.

There were/are crossover moments (ie Faith, being the most recent), but to the best of my knowledge the understanding and enjoyment of the Buffy mythos isn't reliant on watching Angel.

I've heard that Angel has turned into a pretty decent show, but it just never hooked me at the outset.
Old 04-30-03, 01:15 PM
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Ditto to what 12th Monkey said. I've never been much of an Angel fan, and have only really watched it on DVD. I never felt that I was missing anything on Buffy.
Old 04-30-03, 01:17 PM
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A lot of Buffy and Angel fans are of the opinion that Angel is okay in its freshman season and then comes into its own by the second, only getting better up to this point. I'm of the opposite opinion.

The first season has advantages over the others:
  • "Monster of the week" format that works for the most part
  • Fewer characters so it's less like a soap opera
  • It feels like they're in Los Angeles, instead of a generic city
  • Angel is comparable to Batman, a dark knight

The latter seasons have far too many characters (Fred, Gunn, Lila, Darla, Loren (sp?), etc.). It gets silly. In addition, the story arcs get tiring, especially the sillier ones.

That said, I gladly bought Angel's first season, but am debating getting the rest. If you're a collector, get them all. If you're a Buffy fan, pick up the first only.

Hope this helps.
Old 04-30-03, 01:18 PM
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lol, I feel the opposite...I didn't start watching Buffy until about a year before Angel started, so I started watching that too. I've never been completely faithful to either show and I went through periods where I would watch and I wouldn't watch both of them....but in the last two years, Angel has become a really good show that far surpasses Buffy IMHO. I look forward to watching Angel every week....and I sometimes tape Buffy and sometime don't depending on my mood for watching more tv. Since I watched Season 1 of Angel sporadically I cannot really comment on that season as a whole......but this show took a while to really get off the ground and I seriously think it surpassed it's predecessor in terms of quality. Sure it has it's stupid parts from time to time (as does Buffy on quite a regular basis) but I think Angel is far more cinematic than Buffy ever was, and regularly sports much better storytelling.

Hey, CSI is a great show too...but it doesn't seem to me like it would be as rewatchable as Buffy and Angel and other shows that have strong continuing storylines. Dramas that are more episodic just are not as rewatchable for me, but YMMV.
Old 04-30-03, 01:37 PM
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I am fan of both, but do not consider myself a purist, but I would definitely get Angel. While the episodes are relatively self contained, the crossovers add a lot depth to both series.

For instance, (and this is not a spoiler of any consequence).....


IN buffy Season 7, the phone rings and Andrew says, "Willow, it's LA, somebody named Fred, he doesn't sound very manly."


THis is a throw away line, but those who watch Angel know Fred is a female. Willow returns to Buffy an episode later with Faith in tow. Those who only watch Buffy don't really "miss" anything, but those who watch Angel see a whole episode with Willow in LA, and see how she convinces Faith to comeback to Sunnydale.

Long story long, I have both CSI and Angel. Both are great, but if you are a Buffy fan you should treat yourself to Angel. I am of the opinion that once you get past the 1st couple of episodes in Season 1, the series really picks up serious steam, and is a LOT less predictable then Buffy.
Old 04-30-03, 03:05 PM
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Since this has more to do with the shows than with the actual discs, moving to TV Talk.
Old 04-30-03, 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by minguy
Of course this is all my opinion. I think I'm in the minority with Buffy season 3.
Absolutely -- s3 usually ties with s2 in most polls as the co-favorite...
Old 04-30-03, 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by adamblast
Absolutely -- s3 usually ties with s2 in most polls as the co-favorite...
I used to like season 3 better than season 2, but having gone back and watched some season 2 eps lately it's starting to grow on me to the point that I might like it better than season 3 now. It's really a question of who I find more annoying, Cordelia or Faith. Still, I didn't like the show much at all until season 4, so it doesn't make a lot of difference one way or the other.

To answer the original question, watching Ats concurrently with BtVS isn't essential, but you might enjoy it more (back when there were more crossover eps).
Old 04-30-03, 05:01 PM
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I'm a Buffy fan and never liked Angel as a character and never bothered with the show. I don't think Angel is necessary for explanation of Buffy in any way (jmho of course).

That being said, I have watched a few episodes this season of Angel 'cuz I noticed Wesley had become quite the hottie (real intelligent reasoning, I know). This season there is definite correlation to the stories but if you're not up to date on Buffy you don't need to know that for a while
Old 04-30-03, 05:03 PM
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It's nice to watch them together but it's not like you'll be totally lost if you don't watch Angel with it.
Old 04-30-03, 05:16 PM
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I love both shows, but Angel has decidely become a better show over the last 2 years. Angel also is the more "adult" of the two shows, as even though it is darker, BtVS still seems to attract the teenage girl demigraphic. Angel, though, seems directed more to the 18-25 male bracket.

Both shows are "can't miss" for me, but in ranking them, Angel is much better.
Old 04-30-03, 06:24 PM
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(except for Buffy seasons 2 & 3) I much prefer Angel to Buffy. The good seasons of Buffy had Angel in them anyways - I think he just took some of the goodness with him.
Old 04-30-03, 06:48 PM
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While we're on the topic... there are some people (read: me) who bought Angel Season 1, but have not watched it until Buffy Season 4 comes out.

Can someone post a (spoiler-free) listing of which episodes should be watched in which order. That is, if I have my Buffy and Angel sets in front of me, which episodes cross over and which should be viewed before the other...
Old 04-30-03, 06:54 PM
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^ watch the first episode of Buffy season 4, then the first Angel, then the second buffy, then the second Angel... and so on.
Old 04-30-03, 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by slop101
^ watch the first episode of Buffy season 4, then the first Angel, then the second buffy, then the second Angel... and so on.
That seems logical... but what I'm asking is does that actually work exactly for the crossover episodes? For example, if there's a crossover episode that begins with Episode 14 of Buffy, does it conclude on Episode 14 of Angel?

If not, I'd love to know which episodes (by # or title) should be watched before others, between both shows.
Old 04-30-03, 08:28 PM
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Angel is a good show on its own and may well be the only link we have to the Buffyverse after this season should the rumors prove true and it gets renewed.
The first season is a little too creature of the weekish for my tastes, but still works well enough IMO. The third and fourth seasons are when the show gets its own legs and does what looks to be a two year storyline. Some people hate it, I happen to like it. Last season Angel delivered the goods whereas Buffy failed to do so on several occasions.

My advice, get Angel and you will grow to like it. It takes time, but it will grow on you.
Old 04-30-03, 09:54 PM
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because it is a spinoff. I have always been a huge Buffy fan but have found Angel much more satisfying ever since Angels demeanor changed near the end of the the second season. It is darker yet still funny and the direction and is more cinimatic if tat makes sense. People whoi dimiss it as Buffy's red headed step child are missing out on one of the best hows on TV
Old 04-30-03, 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by bboisvert
While we're on the topic... there are some people (read: me) who bought Angel Season 1, but have not watched it until Buffy Season 4 comes out.

Can someone post a (spoiler-free) listing of which episodes should be watched in which order. That is, if I have my Buffy and Angel sets in front of me, which episodes cross over and which should be viewed before the other...
Here's a link to the Digital Bits review of Angel S1. At the bottom, there is a list of episode titles with indicators of crossover episodes: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews2/angels1.html.

If you watch them Buffy S4 Ep 1, Angel S1 Ep 1, Buffy S4 Ep 2, Angel S1 Ep 2, etc., you will see them in the correct order, and the crossovers will be coordinated.

I will say, though, that the crossover episodes aren't Part 1 and Part 2 of a single story. Each crossover episode stands on its own and makes perfect sense without seeing the other one. It's more along the lines of Oz says at the end of Buffy Ep 3: "I'm going to Los Angeles to visit Angel." And then he's in the next Angel ep. There are a few cross-references in dialog, and some of the stories are somewhat related, but you don't have to see one to have the other make sense.

As far as which is better, Buffy S2 or S3, I'm in the S2 camp. There is no single episode in S3 that is as big a clunker as two or three S2 eps. But there is no single episode in S3 that is as good as three or four S2 eps. S2 hits some peaks that S3 never hits, but it also hits some depths that S3 never hits. But I go to those five or six kickass episodes in S2 far more than I watch anything in S3.
Old 04-30-03, 11:35 PM
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Re: A question for all you Buffy fans (regarding Angel)

Originally posted by JEStinson3
I never watched Buffy on TV, but I have enjoyed the first two seasons on DVD and I have season 3 on the way. I've heard that Angel isn't as good as Buffy is, but that there are a few episodes that crossover with Buffy.
I just started watching Buffy this past Christmas, and went through seasons 1-7.5 in 26 days (if memory serves me correctly). Since I then had a lull, I bought Angel S1 on DVD. A week later, I ordered S2 and 3 from Australia. Now, I am trying to fight the urge to state that I like Angel more than Buffy (due to Buffy seasons 4, 6, and parts of 7, whereas I've yet to get anything like that from Angel). With that, it really is all based on opinion. You may like it, you may not.

If memory serves me, there are two S4 episodes that are real crossovers. Other than that, there are mainly just in-jokes that you may or probably not get.

Originally posted by JEStinson3
How essential is Angel to getting the complete Buffy? I'm trying to decide if I should use the rest of my freedvd points to get Angel season 1 or if I shoud try and get a few more and get CSI season 1. Any help would be appreciated.
It's not "essential", but you may really enjoy it. Certainly more than that overhyped CSI .
Old 04-30-03, 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by otmetrud
As far as which is better, Buffy S2 or S3, I'm in the S2 camp. There is no single episode in S3 that is as big a clunker as two or three S2 eps. But there is no single episode in S3 that is as good as three or four S2 eps. S2 hits some peaks that S3 never hits, but it also hits some depths that S3 never hits. But I go to those five or six kickass episodes in S2 far more than I watch anything in S3.
Just curious what your favorite episodes are from season 2? It is my favorite season as well and I find myself watching Surprise/Innocence, Passion, and Becoming fairly often.
Old 05-01-03, 12:47 AM
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Is watching Angel essential to fully appreciate Buffy's storylines? Nah, I wouldn't go that far. But personally, I feel Angel's become a vastly superior show to Buffy over the last two seasons. Give it a chance. Season 1 is decent, but it only gets better every year after that. I wish I could say the same for Buffy.
Old 05-01-03, 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Brian_92gsr
Just curious what your favorite episodes are from season 2? It is my favorite season as well and I find myself watching Surprise/Innocence, Passion, and Becoming fairly often.

Those five (counting Becoming as two episodes) are at the very top of my list. A lot of people think Innocence is the best episode ever on Buffy, but Passion is my absolute favorite. All five of them, though, kick me in the gut every time I watch them.

A notch below those is the second half of the What's My Line two-parter -- mostly because of the non-stop action.

On the flip side, that season also gave us Reptile Boy, Killed By Death and Go Fish.
Old 05-01-03, 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by otmetrud
Those five (counting Becoming as two episodes) are at the very top of my list. A lot of people think Innocence is the best episode ever on Buffy, but Passion is my absolute favorite.
Same here.

Jenny Calendar is a great character. Her relationship with Giles is just as well-done as Buffy & Angel's. A perfect on-screen couple.
Old 05-01-03, 02:08 AM
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On the flip side, that season also gave us Reptile Boy, Killed By Death and Go Fish.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned "Bad Eggs". The #1 reason I could never rank Season 2 over Season 3.

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